Code of conduct in the Hua Hin real estate market ?????

[Super Joe]

there is a vast store of information here detailing the many ways people have been victimized. If this information could be accessed rather than protected

Hi Simon,
The people who to date have come forward with their issues have been a major factor in this whole thing being introduced.
At the initial meeting and in the press report that followed it, their issues were raised as key items to be addressed.
There really is a willingness here to include all items of concern for property buyers.

SJ


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[PKBCXKT]

Big Boy,

Yes it was ( is ) my thread and i will take control tomorrow. Watch the posts tomorrow.

ps. also could you pls pm me your identity. I got a lot, actually most, Jockey, I am still waiting for you. Any problem??????

pk

[dr.carter]

[Admin edit : Flaming removed]

[huahinsimon]

there is a vast store of information here detailing the many ways people have been victimized. If this information could be accessed rather than protected

Hi Simon,
The people who to date have come forward with their issues have been a major factor in this whole thing being introduced.
At the initial meeting and in the press report that followed it, their issues were raised as key items to be addressed.
There really is a willingness here to include all items of concern for property buyers.

SJ

I'm a bit confused, Joe. I was addressing Jockey's observation that if ALL (emphasis mine) the complaints received by FT could be collated and published we would have a great place from which to start.

you wrote: At the initial meeting and in the press report that followed it, their issues were raised as key items to be addressed.

I was not at that meeting as you were, so I cannot comment on which victims issues were raised. But I do have the HotLine newspaper in front of me now and NOT ONE WORD of any punter's problem is mentioned in the press report. As my problem with XXX was featured in the Nation, BKK Post and the foreign press BUT NOT IN THE LOCAL PRESS, Iwould be interested to know if my issue was raised at "the initial meeting?" If not, whose issues were, if you can remember?

I believe,as you stated, There really is a willingness here, (I would add among many,) to include all items of concern for property buyers.

However, I am skeptical that there is a willingness in some sectors to name all of those who have been accused of, shall we say, questionable dealings, and of course offer them the opportunity to expalin, and this will be a serious hurdle to overcome. There can be no sacred olives, er, cows.

HHS

[Super Joe]

HHS,
This is a direct extract from the press report and just some of the items that the new body wishes to address:
Projects owners could not fulfill contract made with their clients.
Infrastructures and facilities provided by the owners were not what the customers wanted.
Some projects developers intended to break the contract given to their customers, as on some project no construction took place for the past 3 years.
On some projects construction price went above agreed price.
Many houses were constructed to a very low standard than it was expected.
Most of customers have complaint to project owners about problems such as leaked roofs and cracked walls.
Some owners complained that they were cheated by landlords.
In other cases house brokers intentionally asked for high commission
Some had many problems with contractors.

Many of the issues people have suffered are being addressed. The important thing is to learn from them and introduce regulations that stop them happening again in the future as the OP requested, not to re-open old wounds.
Simon you can post here before Monday any points you want raising (please don't name name's as against forum rules) and I will print them out and bring them to the meeting, as I'm sure others will do anyway.

Cheers,
SJ

[huahinsimon]

HHS,
This is a direct extract from the press report:
Projects owners could not fulfill contract made with their clients.
Infrastructures and facilities provided by the owners were not what the customers wanted.
Some projects developers intended to break the contract given to their customers, as on some project no construction took place for the past 3 years.
On some projects construction price went above agreed price.
Many houses were constructed to a very low standard than it was expected.
Most of customers have complaint to project owners about problems such as leaked roofs and cracked walls.
Some owners complained that they were cheated by landlords.
In other cases house brokers intentionally asked for high commission
Some had many problems with contractors.


Simon please post here before Monday any constructive points you want raising
Cheers,
SJ

Joe, could you refer me to the press report you quoted. It is not in the full page story on page A5 of the May edition of the HotLine and that is the only place i saw a report on the meeting.

The most important point I think is the start of the process: a transparent contract.

and specifically that after a deposit is made. no other money is paid until the client approves the building plans and they are submitted to the tessaban and a building permit is issued. Then money is paid into escrow or a trust account and only paid to the developer/builder when he issues a notice of completion to the buyer that a milestone has been completed and it is checked out by a qualified, ie licensed, neutral engineer, that it meets the standards.

as far as building specifics here is a sensible list of points a fellow called Burger posted a long time ago. cull through these and you will find lots of grist for the mill

HHS

Re: Single storey bungalows and villas
If you're not qualified to check the below, hire a professional, very cheap. There's no need to take any risks.

Ask to see architects drawings, detailing structural items.
Ask to see the local authority building permit.
Ask to see the individual land title plot for your house, ie: has the main Chanote been ‘cut’ yet, it takes two months so should be done before show house is even finished.
Actually read the conditions in the contract (I know I'm pushing you to the limit here ) Get a solicitor to check it over, ask for changes if your not happy with certain conditions.
Check the footing’s go down at least 1.5m through established earth (ie: not newly built up earth), with at least a 1.2m square concrete padstone under the footing.
How long has the infill earth been left before they started building ?
Check they’re using 12mm dia reinforcing steelwork in the underground beam system and above ground columns, and not a smaller size (some only use 9mm or 10mm).
Check the underground beam layout from the architects drawings to make sure that all walls are built off these beams and not off in-filled concrete.
Check they are using '3-phase electrics' (not western 3-phase before anyone picks me up on that) with their own dedicated transformer,
tapping into the higher located 11kv supply, rather than the lower single phase cables the whole area shares, which goes down often or is insufficient in certain areas.
Check they are installing an underground concrete drainage system going out of the project to the local drains or stream/river.
Check they are using concrete lintels above doors and windows and not just building bricks off the wood frames.
Check they are using grade ‘A’ cement.
Check they are using fine sand (more expensive) for the rendered walls, no plastering here.run your handsover the walls to see how lumpy/rough their rendering is.
Check they are using quality pool equipment, or the like, and not cheap Asian equipment.
Check they are using steel traps, flexible hoses, valves and fittings in the bathrooms, rather than plastic ones where the joints blow after about a year.
Check they are putting electric cables in conduits.
Check they are using the latest regulation 3-pin sockets and that they are grounding them to earth, ask to see the earth rods in the ground outside.
Look at the plasterboard ceilings and see if you can see the joints, you shouldn’t be able too if they are quality tradesmen and ‘skim’ properly.
Check the tiling to see if the tiles are even or if any corners are jutting out, just run your hand across them.
Look at the swimming pool water line against the tiles to see how good/straight their tiling is.
Do they use compacting machines to ‘pack’ the earth down ? If not forget it.
Check they put concrete access roads in.
If you want to know if they can build walls straight look at the cut tiles along a run of wall.
Never buy off a Spurs fan or someone whose always down the pub. Doh!

There's probably loads more, why don't the proffessionals in the business, like Jaime etc, add to the list.

Burger

[Super Joe]

Hi Simon,

The report came out in April shortly after the meeting, its on their website.

I'll print the list off and take it along.

SJ

[clive]

Strange this, two rookies on here, strange names again, what is wrong with the name your parents gave you, Peter and Vaughan, do you have these strange names on your business cards? Peter appears to say that this was Vaughans idea yet Peter is sending out the invitations. Peter also said on the 30th of May, quote” Yesterday we sent out a lot of invitations to developers and agents, as did the newspaperman to his contacts, for a meeting monday 11 am. Place will be informed once we know how many will participate.” Unquote. I have known Vaughan for 2 years, however I have not had the pleasure of meeting Peter but might I suggest to you both that when you take on a venture such as this it really is incumbent upon you to try to ensure that you invite all of the interested parties because at the moment it may appear that you are really trying to build a trade club with your friends, with the intention of promoting the club members own business’s. Please do not get me wrong here, the idea is good one and I would gladly participate, given the opportunity. I am a well known agent and I beleive that if an agent really wanted to protect their customers, they could quite easily do so by firstly, not listing properties from developers where there have been proven problems, secondly acting in a correct and proper manner by continuing to monitor the progress of their clients investment during the build, and thirdly acting as a mediator when problems arise. Whilst on this subject maybe some of the magazine publishers should take at look at where some of their advertising revenue is coming from before there is talk about forming trade associations to introduce a code of conduct, self discipline is by far the best and most effective form of conduct.

[VCP]

Clive: By all means you are of course invited to join us on Monday. I was unfortunately misinformed that you weren't in the country. Will email the details across to you.

Simon: The lists of permits and registrations to be looked at is actually quite interesting. Having never built my own home here, I wasn't aware access to some of those permits were available.

As for collecting all the information of victimization, seems like a great idea to avoid more customers from being victimized in the same way.

[Jockey]

HHS - You misquoted me. I didn't say "collated and published" I said "collated and summarised" which it appears has already been done judging by SuperJoe's post. One word makes is a huge difference in meaning.

PK - You introduced yourself as "MD for EV". I'm not too clever with acronyms and thought that meant Managing Director for EVason! So now i know your a fellow Real Estate agent for Engel & Volkers. I have already expressed my opinion Real Estate agents should not be involved in any "Trades Body" and certainly not be leader. I think there is an obvious conflict of interest there.

In summary, the owner of a local property magazine, a local real estate agent who subscribes to the magazine, and a few local developers get together with government officials to see if they can improve the image of the property sector in the area. No harm in that and indeed highly commendable, but if you take it a step further and declare yourselves a self appointed Regulatory Body I think you will have a credibility problem.

[VCP]

Jockey absolutely spot on the money. I think Peter and SuperJoe made it clear earlier when they said the regulatory body of the association would be comprised of neutral out-of-town participants, backed by the local authorities, and the rest of us would play a member's role of the association.

Peter is this a correct summarization from our talks?

[huahinsimon]

HHS - You misquoted me. I didn't say "collated and published" I said "collated and summarised" which it appears has already been done judging by SuperJoe's post. One word makes is a huge difference in meaning.

Jockey, sorry for the misquote, but I think I got your meaning, after all what good does it do to collate and summarise if the summary doesnt see the light of day? Dont you agree it needs to be make public, ie published in some form, as it appears is already being done. and thanks for the pm on the well.

Just one question for you builders and developers out there. Just how important is it that steel roof beams and the welds be coated with rust inhibiting paint? Is it important enough to be on the list of good building practices required by the 'association'?

[Admin edit : images removed]

Any idea how much shorter the life of a building with out any rust protection may be? or how much longer a building with it may be?

HHS

[clive]

Sorry guys, really struggling to keep up here. this I have just lifted from the Hua Hin news web site dated 31/05/08
The meeting concluded that the foreign buyers would like to establish an association. However Hua Hin District Chief Officer Mr. Prasit Boonlikit has advised them at it will better if they will establish expats club instead. He said that he is willing to help the registration and establishing such a club. Several Hua Hin government institutions will act as advisers. Deputy Commander of Provincial Police and Hua Hin Police Station Superintendent were willing to be consultants for the club as well. Before saying goodbye, most of the persons present at the meeting requested regular monthly meeting so they can share experience and together try to solve problems. This has been agreed unanimously.

If this is the meeting that you are talking about how has it changed to forming an association of real esate agents, particularly bearing in mind Mr. Prasit Boonlikit's recomendation?

[splitlid]

Just one question for you builders and developers out there. Just how important is it that steel roof beams and the welds be coated with rust inhibiting paint? Is it important enough to be on the list of good building practices required by the 'association'?

Any idea how much shorter the life of a building with out any rust protection may be? or how much longer a building with it may be?

HHS

hi HHS,
its fairly important for the steel to be coated in primer.if they are not then it could cause problems in the future.
welds are more likely to suffer corrosion than the beams theirselves as these will usually have a much rougher surface and more suceptable to rusting.
if your steel has been primed but has a few scratches in the paint then dont worry. if no paint at all then there could be a problem.

corrosion speed depends on the elements really. moisture in the air, salt content, and the most important one is probably is it getting wet on a regular basis.

cant see you having any problems for say........5 years

[splitlid]

Sorry guys, really struggling to keep up here. this I have just lifted from the Hua Hin news web site dated 31/05/08
The meeting concluded that the foreign buyers would like to establish an association. However Hua Hin District Chief Officer Mr. Prasit Boonlikit has advised them at it will better if they will establish expats club instead. He said that he is willing to help the registration and establishing such a club. Several Hua Hin government institutions will act as advisers. Deputy Commander of Provincial Police and Hua Hin Police Station Superintendent were willing to be consultants for the club as well. Before saying goodbye, most of the persons present at the meeting requested regular monthly meeting so they can share experience and together try to solve problems. This has been agreed unanimously.

If this is the meeting that you are talking about how has it changed to forming an association of real esate agents, particularly bearing in mind Mr. Prasit Boonlikit's recomendation?

oh a club......can we play rounders on thursdays