Code of conduct in the Hua Hin real estate market ?????

[PKBCXKT]

Dear All,

I want to start this thread following from the locked one "Business ethics".

I put a short intro on the introduction page some days ago. You also can follow what I posted so far on the above topic.

I am after opinions and suggestions of how to kind of regulate the regional real estate market. As mentioned before we are already preparing to set up something like a body "whatever it might be called".

We already are talking to several partys, but may be by this way we might reach a lot more response than through our database.

Please developers, agents and anybody related to real estate post your views, opinions and suggestions. Any comment is valuable.

I also want to make it very clear, I do not want the vandetta of the watersaga, salad, A's on this thread. If possible I want the administrators to lock out the "ID's" who post that on this thread.

I want to make this thread a bit meaningful for our whole community, which is our home, and which we have to protect from unpleasent things which happened in the past. Don't get me wrong, I am not a preacher just someone who wants to spend the rest of his life here.

For those being burnt in the past this is the opportunity to help others that this will not happen again, and if the idea takes off and certain developers or agents feel it is not appropriate to join, for whatever reason, they will isolate themselves. We just have to create a momentum for the better and everybody can change for the better, even the ones who did wrong in the past.( Again no preacher )

Please anybody is welcome!!!

Best pk

[lomuamart]

That's a good start.
Admin action will be taken when it's deemed necessary.
Let's try and keep this thread clear of personal issues. If there are any, the thread will be locked.

[JW]

I think that if the core agents in Hua Hin got together on a monthly basis to share info regarding experiences with developers/lawyers we could all make sure our clients are not compromised.

The company I am a partner in would be very happy to be involved in any group which would help Hua Hin's image among local press, tourists and worldwide media. We need to spread the word about good experiences - there are so many people who are over the moon with their property here and we only ever here about the few bad cases. I am not advocating brushing those under the table at all - we the agents need to know to protect future clients - just lets have some balance.

Thanks for starting this thread pk - lets keep it constructive


JW
Hot Property

[huahinsimon]

This is an idea whose time has come. This town has been a wild west dominated by a few gunslingers much too long. It's time the folks pulled together and brought some order to the town, just like in the old time movies.

It really isn't all that hard to do. But I suppose there will be some who will tell you different. There are certain basics that need to be covered. I've learned many the hard way: like complete plans filed and building permit issued after your deposit and before any more payments, inspection by competent engineer when a stage payment is asked for, electrical wiring in conduit, rust protection on steel beams and welds, soil compacted, and footings a certain depth below the surface, water, well I wont go there for obvious reasons.

But coming up with some standards is not rocket science. Its been done in a lot of countries before. Its pretty much common sense. Common to those who have been educated in construction engineering, either formally or through years of work in the trades.

I would bet my olives that in almost every case, in every country that has them Trade Associations began through grass roots efforts. People seeing the need and taking action. Some will try and stop it by saying 'this' wont work or 'that' wont work and coming up with all kinds of scenarios, like the group will be taken over by the cheaters and they will then have even more power to screw the public.

I say crap. There are enough straight shooters willing to make a fair profit in the housing industry to start and maintain such an organization. When you have meeting to discuss the issues the charlatans soon identify themselves by their constant negativity. Set strong standards and those who wish will join and those who dont wont. Those who opt in can offer guarantees of certain standards. Will there be some failures? Sure, but what product doesnt have some failures now and then. That's what the guarantee is all about. There will be more recorse than is now available. This is the time for all good builders/developers and agents to come to the aid of their industry.

I wish PK et. al. all the luck in the world.

HHS

[Super Joe]

This was the gist of my post from the other thread about this planned new regulatory body:

The body will have a team of architects, structural engineers, lawyers etc to oversee things and settle disputes.

The government officials are forming it to represent and protect the buyers because they don't want anymore bad press in Bangkok.

At the initial meeting there were developers, but also some happy buyers and some buyers who had been involved in cases we've all read about. All had equal input to the meeting. The body's lawyers will be setting standard contracts that aren't loaded in the developers favour.

Here's a massive plus for the buyer, the body's engineers and lawyers will decide a dispute, if developer loses he can't say "no I don't accept, sue me", unless he want's to be out and the next day dragged into those proceedings we've read about.

This is just my understanding of how it should function, I'm realistic enough to know we should wait and see what actually materialises.

SJ

[splitlid]

[splitlid]

from what i can see, the first isssue that needs to be addressed are the actual building regulations.
i bet most developers in hua hin have little or no idea what building regs are and what they are supposed to do.


so, prioty number one is to get the regs in english and thai.
make them readily available to all for a nominal fee.
its is then up to the developer that the standards are met.

from there you can set up the body to control that the standards are being adhered to.

developers would be welcome to go above and beyond the regs but obviously cannot be punished for meeting the minimum requirement.

changes to the regs are seriously reguired as building pratices here are outdated and inefficient BUT that would be a painful journey,and is the long term goal.

short term is to get everyone compling with the current ones.

[Wanderlust]

Following on from Super Joe's post, I think this idea should go further, mainly because of the vagaries and potential expense of the legal system here. If a member of this trade body is found to have failed the standards set in an individual case, but then refuses to correct the problem, not only should they be thrown out of the trade body but also the other members of that body should be the ones to pursue them in the courts, or at least jointly support the homebuyer in their legal efforts, to be repaid on a successful court action from any costs awarded. I fear that if the only sanction against the wrong doers is being thrown out of the organisation (or being denied entry in the first place) this will not have sufficient teeth to clear out the undesirable element. Hopefully at some point the organisation will have proper backing and endorsement by local government, but this is the one area which will be the most difficult to achieve due to endemic corruption and the short sightedness of many local politicians; however assuming that is achieved then the local authorities can go as far as to deny building permission to those not belonging to the trade body, or some other official response.
Great idea and please keep at it, as there is inevitably going to be some large stumbling blocks along the way.

[Super Joe]

WL wrote:

If a member of this trade body is found to have failed the standards set in an individual case, but then refuses to correct the problem, not only should they be thrown out of the trade body but also the other members of that body should be the ones to pursue them in the courts

Firstly any minor issue the developer will now just fix it rather than become a business who was kicked off the town's approved list and be in a local paper and all the bad press. Balance of power for defects now with buyer not developer ?
If a major issue and developer refuses, he gets dragged up before the Hua Hin Consiliatory Committee and presured to resolve it, he may still refuse. Now buyer has to take it to court but is armed with the Provincial Governor's own lawyer and engineers' report saying they are in the right and also something from the Consiliatory Committee too.
Whether or not the body would then fund all their court case not sure, if buyers want this facility they should put this to the body now while they are drawing up the way it's going to work, they want anyone and everyone's ideas. PK the OP has also asked for them and is in a position to put them forward.

the local authorities can go as far as to deny building permission to those not belonging to the trade body

Regarding this, presently this body is for developers who want to join it, others can still freely operate outside it as normal.

SJ

[ozuncle]

I fear that if the only sanction against the wrong doers is being thrown out of the organisation (or being denied entry in the first place) this will not have sufficient teeth to clear out the undesirable element.

It will take some time, but if a builder/developer/agent could not advertise the fact that he was a member of this association he would not get much work.
Forums such as HHAD and a bit of general advertising advising the public that to do business with a non member could prove to be a disaster, would be a big incentive to seek out a reputable builder.
Most farang would not mind paying a bit extra for that bit of added security.
The only downside I can see is the small Thai builder (such as the one recently promoted by Norm) will miss out on some business.
Good luck.

[Lev]

We are closely monitoring this and all property related threads, they will be closed the instant specific details regarding problems are posted and the poster in question will be banned.

However this looks to be a good thread and an important topic so please continue.

[Super Joe]

I fear that if the only sanction against the wrong doers is being thrown out of the organisation (or being denied entry in the first place) this will not have sufficient teeth to clear out the undesirable element

Every party has a responsibility regarding property buying, including the buyer.
IF this body works and has many developer members, as I think it will, then the undesirable element you mention will only exist if buyers use them instead of using someone 'approved'.
.

[sargeant]

I am as i type involved in a serious dispute with my ex english bank and i am using the ombudsman in the UK when it is resolved i will with Levs permission publish it on this forum.
The Ombudsman (i call him Obm Kenobi) is a Body of neutral people set up and paid for by the uk govt to adjudicate financial or legal or tax disputes should anyone be interested i have the leaflet that lays out what he can and cannot do. It may give some meat and potatoes/insight into what and what may not be possible during your negociations/meetings.

My personal opinion on this thread so far is good luck however i think whilst it may turn into an au gust body it may also turn into an awegusto body if it does not have teeth and the power of enforcement

Note no smileys

[buksida]

I have nothing to do with real estate in this town but after reading the posts on here over the last week agree that some kind of standards or conduct code is definitely required.

What it should definitely not be though is managed or operated by local 'officials' that are prone to unethical methods of persuasion and are selective with their assistance in disputes. It will totally negate the entire concept and cause more problems.

The 'body' should be completely independent and as someone above said attended by all agents and developers. Those that comply with the new legislation could be issued some form of certification and those that don't won't. The buyer will still have the choice but providing they are informed well in advance should always make the right one.

This should be about standards, ethics and professionalism and not deep pockets and local contacts.

[JW]

Buksi,

Great post, what your talking about is a huge problem - and quite possibily the hardest to get around.
Thinking caps on boys and girls!