Political un-rest and rally

[buksida]

An interesting article on today's ATol exploring the black shirts .... make of it what you will:

http://atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE29Ae02.html

I'm not going to cast opinion on the piece as I don't wish to get into a selective quoting war, we all know where we all stand opinion-wise on this issue.

[Spitfire]

Some of that quoted post is true and some is crap Pharvey, I bet "Bob" is writing that safely from behind a desk in Hong Kong or somewhere like that and has never even visited a village/rural setting in Thailand whether it be in Isaan, north or south.

It's the remittances factor and the Thais have been at it for a long time. Most villages all over Thailand consist of the very young, the very old and a few in between that cannot leave, most, if not all, that can leave and work, do, then they assist the family because they have no choice, generally though it's the females. It's got sweet FA to do with anything else, they've done it for thermselves. "Bob" is making sweeping statements and could easily be construed as a twat.

Seems that lots of people know what the deal is that have never even visited the rural environment, just being armchair city dwelling judges.

[caller]

Appologies for the length of the post, this was a piece by Robert Woodrow that I received by email - hence couldn't provide a link. Makes interesting reading though.....

Staggering! To believe that you have only just come across this. I find that frightening. Read Spitfires post then google it or whatever and learn it is one of the most debunked pieces of crap written about the troubles.

Truly amazed someone thought it fit to post here. (Sorry, but it gets my shackles up)!

Sarge - I hope you weren't responsible for my bags going missing at Heathrow x3!!!

[STEVE G]

An interesting article on today's ATol exploring the black shirts .... make of it what you will:

http://atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE29Ae02.html

I'm not going to cast opinion on the piece as I don't wish to get into a selective quoting war, we all know where we all stand opinion-wise on this issue.

I read that earlier and my first thought was that if that's what they were doing, they weren't very good at it.
As far as I know, three members of the security forces were killed during the final stages of the protest in Bangkok, one of them was Seh Daeng killed by a sniper, a second was an Air Force sergeant accidentally shot by the Army and the third was killed by a grenade on the final day, so if these guys were shooting at the Army, they were missing!

[sargeant]

Buksi an interesting article i will reply specifically later this morning it is a good article at first read but leaves out answers/questions a good journalist would have asked

Steve G just because only three soldiers died as against a lot of civilians / red shirts i am afraid does not mean the soldiers were not shot at or the Rhonin warriars were bad shots i will EXPLAIN it in 2 words

BODY ARMOUR/ FLAK JACKETS

[Ellycat]

Appologies for the length of the post, this was a piece by Robert Woodrow that I received by email - hence couldn't provide a link. Makes interesting reading though.....

Here's what you need to know about the rural have-nots of Thailand. They are the richest poor people in the Third World. And they owe none of their affluence to Thaksin Shinawatra.

Fugitive former Prime Minster Thaksin, a billionaire wanted in connection with corruption and tax-evasion on a staggeringly egregious scale

No wonder he was handing out thousands of Thai meals to all those poor (massive) Man Siddy fans.

[Super Joe]

I take you all get that the objective of the black shirts was not to kill as many soldiers as they could and/or try to prevent them from entering the camp, but it was to provoke the army into firing back and killing as many 'normal' protestors. journalists etc. This strategy was successful on two big casualty count occassions, and on a rough count they were the 'cause' of, as many, or more deaths than the army.

SJ

[buksida]

That's my take on it also, these guys purposely mingled with the "unarmed" protesters leaving the military no choice (after weeks of ultimatums) to squeeze off a few rounds. Of course the more that get shot the more sympathy the group gets and the more fervor the leaders can whip up. It worked.

Re. the long Woodrow article, I've just read it and yes there maybe a bit of crap in there and the author may or may not be in a city but there is also a helluva lot of truth there too, especially some of the stats and comments on Thaksin's obscenely amassed wealth in such a short time. It seems we're just reading and commenting on what we want to as a result of our political leanings (and yes, I'm often guilty of this myself ).

[Takiap]

Buksi an interesting article i will reply specifically later this morning it is a good article at first read but leaves out answers/questions a good journalist would have asked

Steve G just because only three soldiers died as against a lot of civilians / red shirts i am afraid does not mean the soldiers were not shot at or the Rhonin warriars were bad shots i will EXPLAIN it in 2 words

BODY ARMOUR/ FLAK JACKETS

LOL.....I think you may be giving those Ronins a little too much credit. If you ask me, they were probable never taught how to set the sights on their rifles. As you doubt know yourself, it's not a matter of one shoe fits all. Rifle sights need to be adjust according to the distance between you and the target.

Then again, maybe they weren't aiming for the troops in the first place

[Takiap]

I take you all get that the objective of the black shirts was not to kill as many soldiers as they could and/or try to prevent them from entering the camp, but it was to provoke the army into firing back and killing as many 'normal' protestors. journalists etc. This strategy was successful on two big casualty count occassions, and on a rough count they were the 'cause' of, as many, or more deaths than the army.

SJ

[sargeant]

Buksi
That is a good insightful article
The question I would have asked would be
Was Sah Deang at the top table of the UDD from the beginning or did he take over after the 10th.
I have my doubts he was in the top table before the 10th because he sought celebrity at every opportunity and yet never once stood on the stage strutting his stuff at Pan PHA Bridge or Rachaprasong
Prior to the 10th there were some black/red shirt security but not many
After the 10th he was giving interviews ad nausea inside and out of the protest area

I am convinced he and his Ronin boys were lobbing M79s outside the area at will.
However the 10th changed everything it was pretty obvious to me that Sah Deang and his mob were well informed as to where when and what time the military were going to move in he even seems to have known where the military command and control was and had his men in place. He even boasted of his men taking out the Colonel and the ensuing disarray of the rank and file left with no guidance. (That information could only have come from inside the military/government) and to answer SJ using the normal red shirts body count as political pawns goes to both sides advantage. It does tend to lean to the govt or military NEEDING a shot fired at them first to allow them to let rip which is why I question where the detailed information originated. I doubt any enquiry will produce the truth

One point the protest at this point moved solely to Rachaprasong because Pan Pha was to dangerous and difficult to protect (that’s MILITARY strategy talking)

The big question for me is did he then by spreading fear amongst the protesters take over I watched the film of the bodies and have the photos which were given to me on a sim card gory in every detail I can easily imagine the protesters being told “this is what would have happened to you if I the great Sah Deang had not saved you”
It was also after the 10th that black/red shirt security numbers grew to hundreds.
He also strutted his stuff openly inside the barricades put up under his supervision and the only time I saw any sort of defiance from the UDD leadership was Weng telling them to move the barricades in front of the hospital after Sah Deang had told them not to.

I know Sah Deang went to Cambodia and Dubai to see Thaksin
I believe he was stripped of command purely because he was a Thaksin supporter and sent to lead aerobics classes which was an insult to anyone (it was also a slap in the face for staying in barracks during the coup)

However what I think happened was Thaksin agreed to the 5 point plan and said so on his twitter page. Two days later Sah Deang said he had talked to Thaksin and he was now against it. Seems to me either Thaksin flip flopped big time or there was a falling out and Sah Deang now believed he was the sole one and only TOP DOG to lead a revolution the Thai Che Guevara.

Sah Deang made three major errors which cost lots of lives needlessly

1. He bet the govt could not live with a large body count
2. He failed to see the protests had gone past personalities and democracy was the demand
3. He thought he was bullet proof oops wrong again

Peaceful protests never win jack shit. Peaceful protests are always used by militant anarchist to punch above their weight and turn them violent. Violent protests always get what they want in the end.

Borrowed from Buksi

Thought

That’s arse about face

[PeteC]

This article is mainly about tax incentives but had this interesting tidbit. Will be interesting to see what they really mean. Pete

...."The minister conceded it would be no easy task to get European tourists to return to Thailand. Apart from the riots which have hurt the country's tourism image very badly, the Thai baht is still appreciating due to the strong economy overall.

The government would promote long holidays as a part of the tourism campaign, he said.".....

Entire article here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... incentives

[Big Boy]

I haven't read it here, so apologies if I've missed it.

Sky News in the UK are reporting that control has been restored so the curfew has been lifted from today. However, Abhisit is saying that a lot of reconcilliation work still has to be done before elections can be held - no chance of elections this year.

[PeteC]

I haven't read it here, so apologies if I've missed it.

Sky News in the UK are reporting that control has been restored so the curfew has been lifted from today. However, Abhisit is saying that a lot of reconcilliation work still has to be done before elections can be held - no chance of elections this year.

Yep, he lifted it about 2 hours ago. Pete

[buksida]

Looks like some of Thailand's "elite" are in the firing line too, especially the ones close to Thaksin suspected of helping to bankroll the protests and violence:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05708.html

What most media reports don't state is that there are "elites and multimillionaires" with as much to gain or lose on both sides as there are "poor down-trodden farmers or fishermen".

This is an almighty power struggle with people being used as pawns.