University Shooting in Virginia USA!

[The understudy]

Source BBC News

US university shooting kills 33


The campus has now been closed and students evacuated

A US shooting rampage at the Virginia Tech university has left 33 people, including a suspected gunman, dead.
There were two incidents two hours apart, at a student dorm where two were killed and at an engineering building where 30 and the gunman died.

Officers said they were working to link the attacks and had not yet identified the gunman. Fifteen people were hurt.

After the deadliest shooting at a US school, President George W Bush said the US was "shocked and saddened".

"Schools should be places of safety and sanctuary and learning. When that sanctuary is violated, the impact is felt in every American classroom and every American community," he said.

The state university in the town of Blacksburg is home to 26,000 students.

The shooter shot the door twice at chest level, which resulted in two holes in the door, one of which hit the podium in the front of the classroom
Nikolas Macko, student

Shooter tried the door
E-mail witness accounts

Virginia Tech police chief Wendell Flinchum said that emergency services had received a call at 0715 (1215 GMT) alerting them to a shooting at the dormitory - West Ambler Johnston Hall.

He said that two hours later there was a second report of shooting, this time at the engineering building, Norris Hall.

Asked why the campus was not closed after the first shooting, Mr Flinchum said that, at that stage, it was thought to be an isolated incident.

Police believed the first shooting may have been a "domestic incident" and that the gunman had left the campus.

'Many, many shots'

Eyewitnesses locked down inside the university buildings were using the internet to try to glean information about what is happening and many emailed the BBC News website.

Nikolas Macko was in a mathematics class in Norris Hall when they heard a series of loud bangs in the hallway which prompted a female student sitting near the door to move to close it.


WORST US SCHOOLS SHOOTINGS

1 August 1966 - Sniper Charles Whitman kills 14 people and injures dozens at University of Texas
20 April 1999 - Two teenagers at Columbine High School, Colorado, kill 13 before killing themselves
21 March 2005 - A teenager on an Indian reservation in Red Lake, Minnesota, kills nine

In pictures: Virginia shootings
Timeline: US school shootings

"She peeked out into the hallway, and saw the shooter, so she immediately closed the door. Three other students moved a table that was in front of the room - it seats approximately 40 students at capacity - and barricaded it against the door.

"A few seconds later, the shooter tried to open the door, but my classmates kept it well shut, as they held the table against it from floor level.

"The shooter shot the door twice at chest level, which resulted in two holes in the door, one of which hit the podium in the front of the class room and the other continued out the window. At this point he reloaded, shot the door again - this shot did not penetrate - and moved on to the other classrooms," Mr Macko said.

He said there were "many, many shots" fired.

A fleet of ambulances has ferried the injured to nearby hospitals. However, rescue efforts were reportedly hampered by high winds which meant that medical helicopters could not be used.

President 'horrified'

Mr Flinchum said the gunman had no identity on him and it was unclear if he was a student.



Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said: "Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions."

He said the university was in the process of informing the next of kin of those killed and that counsellors were in place at the campus for student families.

The university urged students to call parents to let them know they were safe.

The US has a history of deadly school shootings.

In 1966, the day after killing his wife and mother, gunman Charles Whitman opened fire from a tower on the campus of the University of Texas killing 14 people and injuring 31 others.

In 1999 two teenagers at Columbine High School in Colorado killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

[caller]

Another tragedy, but also according to the beeb, no debate will happen on gun ownership?

Odd they allowed uni to continue after 1/2 were killed in the first building and without having caught the gunman.

We've had 2 incidents like this in the UK, at Hungerford and Dunblane.

And its worth recalling that the autopsy on Whitman revealed he was a sick man, with a tumour or the like affecting him that directly led to his change in personality and to do what he did.

[DawnHRD]

Very, very sad. And incomprehensible that the first instance was thought isolated & the campus wasn't closed.

As said (not by me) on another thread; What is it with the Americans and their "right to bear arms"? (apologies for generalising there, I meant as a nation rather than individuals, as it is in the Constitution). What is it that NRA supporters say? Guns don't kill people, people kill people? Absolutely, right. So, shouldn't there be very stringent controls on which individuals get to own guns?
As Caller said, we've had shootings like this in UK, too. So, even laws & stringent checks won't stop everyone. However, they would have stopped incidences like Columbine where the perpetrators were kids, or incidences where kids are playing with their parents' guns & accidentally shoot each other, or people "going postal" (we don't have that phrase in UK, possibly because we have gun control!?)

My heartfelt sympathies to the victims & their families. More bright, young lives wasted. So sad.

[nevets]

We dont have mass murder like in the USA ,if an act is carried out it is isolated and only one may be two are killed, this is usually a drive bye and usually someone else not the intended victim. In Birmingham UK where i come from it is mainly the caribbeans shooting the pakistanis and they are shooting the east Europeans for control of drugs and vice in the UK. This said they are not British ( although they give away British passports with cornflake boxes these days). The use of firearms is not tolerated in the UK and carries long prison term , the police dont Carrie them and when asked do not want them , if they go against a person the person knows he does not Carrie a gun they will be apprehend not shot dead, this said if the person wants to use a gun then a special unit is called and a trained officer will be involved. ( some people do have British passports because of the old colonial days and do choose to go to the uk).

[Kraka's Dad]

It was said on the BBC this morning that 3000 children each year are killed by guns in the US each year! Is that statistic alone not enough to start them thinking that gun control would be a good idea?

[Sultry]

All I can say is that my thoughts are with the families of the victims.

[DawnHRD]

Just heard on the television news that the gunman, a 23 yr old South Korean student at the university purchased his gun completely legally...

[Kraka's Dad]

Both guns.
Another student was miffed that he was unable to carry his gun concealed on campus (he had a legal licence but it did not include the campus)

It is incredibly easy to buy a gun in Virginia.
Gangs from New York go there to buy theirs.
It said on the BBC yesterday that in New York you can rent a gun by the day approx $5 a day and they are all purchased in Virginia.
It is horrifying to hear things like that.
Just when will they all learn over there guns are NOT toys and should have very strict controlls!

[PeteC]

Just heard on the television news that the gunman, a 23 yr old South Korean student at the university purchased his gun completely legally...

I've haven't said peep about this yet but maybe time for a short thing.

Yes, the days in American when I had a shotgun and rifles in the late 50's-early 60's are long over. My friends and I used to hunt weekly in the Autumn and yes, our families would cook the pheasants, duck and deer we brought home, not because they had to, but because it would be a waste if we didn't. There wasn't even any mentality that guns in the house were for self defense, totally unheard of, they were for hunting only. No one had a pistol except police and other like professionals, and a very small criminal element.

American evolved during the Vietnam era and during the civil rights movement era and gun posession started to take on a whole new meaning. Defense against the rioters and an offensive weapon for the bad guys, whoever they may have been.

We continued to evolve, but the true meaning of our Constitution for the right bear arms became totally out of date, but politicians now and then were fearful of losing voter support. If one goes into a battle to change the US Constitution, you had be very sure you will come out a winner. If you fail, you are a footnote concerning any future political career.

The blame is wide spread and we're so far down the slope now, it may take a total ban rather than partial to correct the mistakes of the past.

Controls are in place to assure 'legal' guns do not get into the wrong hands. Waiting periods, background checks, the FBI even gets involved with their data base. However, that doesn't account for crooked gun dealers, the huge quantity of illegal weapons in circulation for the past many decades, and the mentality of potential buyers.

Unless you are talking to a complete brainless American radical who wants to create a revolution, every honest citizen will agree things are out of control and change is needed.

How many future events like this recent one will have to happen to convince the politicians to get some guts about these issues is unknown.

However, I also look at the mentality of this young person who allegedly did what he did. My question then is how did his mental state deteriorate to the degree where he would even consider something like that? He was a college stundent for God sakes, smart, accepted by an American University, his entire future in front of him. What happened to him??? What would he have done if no guns were available?....build a bomb out of fertilizer, put poison in the cafateria food, burn his dorm down late one night?

I'm afraid that there is much more to this than the weapon used, not just in this case but in the other school and office building shootings there have been as well. In this particular case, we have a foreign person responsible, so the sickness seems to be spreading.

Yes, guns need more control in America, and a bigger yes there is something wrong with our youth and society worldwide to even bring these kids to the point of doing what they've done.

Now, the next 10 paragraphs could be about "why" and most would blame that also on America and moral decay. Please don't, as the majority in this world now seem to be making a living from what the west exports, not just the USA.

The dialogue shouldn't be about blame, it should be about how to fix it as believe me, the vast, and I mean vast majority of Americans want it fixed also. They have the same hopes and dreams about their children's future as anyone else. This is not an exclusive thing to the finger pointers.

It's only going to get done via the voting booth, or some worldwide disaster that will create a different type thinking society. I have a headache and I'm ashamed because as an American, I have responsibility. Pete

[DawnHRD]

Thanks for that, Pete. It is nice to hear a level headed American view on guns, rather than what we've seen on another recent thread. I understand it must be a very tricky hole for any government to dig itself out of.

The gunman's mental state does seem to have been unhinged, from the tv report I saw. They said he had previously set fire to a room on campus & teachers were trying to make him go to counselling, as he was writing very strange, upsetting things for his English assignments. Very very sad. As these facts emerge though, it makes me wonder even more why the campus wasn't closed down in the 2 hours between the first shootings & the subsequent ones. Did they know he was responsible for the first shootings?

[PeteC]

As these facts emerge though, it makes me wonder even more why the campus wasn't closed down in the 2 hours between the first shootings & the subsequent ones. Did they know he was responsible for the first shootings?

I think only after the fact. The papers and news are filled up with Swat Teams forcing students to the ground at gun point as they really didn't know.

Law Enforcement walks into a scene with a few thousand young people who all look about the same...I think confusion was supreme.

They thought the whole thing was over at the dormitory and the shooter had long gone.

Last night there were theories flying about 2 shooters.

After the first incident I think it was damage control and keep the campus as calm as possible. Thousands of students, tough call to think 2 hours later he was still active and not finished. Not excuses, just trying to think if I had been there. Who is who? No rifles, just concealed pistols. No intelligence at that time that he was Asian, Black, White. Pete

[Big A]

[quote="DawnHHDRC"]Thanks for that, Pete. It is nice to hear a level headed American view on guns, rather than what we've seen on another recent thread. I understand it must be a very tricky hole for any government to dig itself out of.quote]


The government does not need to dig itself out of any holes.

It is required however in its mandate from the people to successfully respond to and manage the situation.

[DawnHRD]

Sorry, Big Al, I didn't mean this particular shooting. I meant the gun control issue as a whole (no pun intended)

[sargeant]

Pete i am not making an issue of this but this guy cho came to the US of A age 8 he is now 23 15 of his most formative /learning years have been in the usa 3 maybe 4 in korea the fact he was born in s korea IMHO has sweet FA to do with what made him tick or not tick its where his tick was nurtured which had more to do with it

[HansMartin]

Well, I've kind of set on the sidelines on this issue until now. As one of the few regular US of A posters, I guess my perspective is probably different.

The first thing you need to realize is that "gun control" is a local, not national, issue. Out here in San Francisco it is technically illegal to have a gun in the City. In Dallas, the only places where you CANNOT have a gun is in a bar or a church!!! And the laws very all over the country. I was discussing this tonite with an Ozzie and an Irishman and they could not but the pieces together.

H.Rap Brown probably said it the best " Violence is as American as cherry (apple) pie". By no means does this apply to all or even most of us...............

...............but if you were already on the fringes of sanity as was Cho, it gets real scary. We have moved into a time when the crazies are advertising themselves and claiming their 15 seconds of fame on the Internet after they have killed themselves and 32 others. Cho's videos to NBC are chilling. And we have no way to reach out and help them or protect our society from our/their failings.

And today over 100 innocent civilians were killed by suicide bombers in Baghdad -- once again. Their lives are as valuable as the 32 innocents killed in Virginia; but the connection is not made. Sad, very sad.