Psychiatry - A Dark Art

[MrPlum]

Somebody asked, in another place, about the mental health of ex-pats in Thailand. I decided I wanted to respond. If you are of a sensitive nature, you may find my response scathing. I don't apologize for it.

Numbers quoted come from Psychiatrists or Medical Doctors.
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'I'm fine here in LOS. Having a relaxed enjoyable life.

In the UK I was stressed out of my mind with marital conflict and being burned out from work. I was on anti-depressants for 3 and a half years so that I could manage.

I didn't need brain changing, libido-numbing, zombie-making, toxic potions to help me cope. What I needed to do was get away from a toxic wife, toxic government, toxic thugs, toxic employer, a toxic immoral media and go and lie in the sun. A walk in the morning and an hour in the sun are the best therapies and they are absolutely free. The quacks won't tell you that though. They will fabricate complex BS to convince you, you need their help.

The answer to most people's mental health issues is to take the jackboot off their heads! People should be uplifted, validated and taught to see themselves as divine beings, not debt slaves for fascist corporations. The wealthy don't have these problems. How many billionaires are classed as 'mentally ill'? Even though we know they are immoral sociopaths, there isn't a psychiatrist that would dare say so. Instead they act as tools for the criminal social controllers while preying on the less powerful.

A pox on all 'psychiatrists'. They do far more harm than good. Drug peddlers masquerading as 'experts', picking the pockets of the already wounded. None of us is perfect. Not one. Which means every time we are down, and there are more than enough reasons for being down these days, the quacks are only too ready to classify us as ill. I'm all for having a nice chat about my problems. A problem shared and all that. If there is no priest, friend, wife or buddy around, then maybe a session with a psychiatrist is useful. However, I've never heard of anyone actually being 'cured' by a psychiatrist. Only anecdotes from people who have been '8 years on therapy'. Nice work if you can get it.

20 different psychiatrists will give you 20 different reasons why you are the way you are. There is no consistency. It's entirely subjective. This is not medicine.



We are all mad as March hares. Anyone who has ever meditated knows that our thoughts are an endless stream of contradictory 'bubbles' floating up from the bottom of a vast ocean of experience, creating turbulence on the surface. When we placed under stress, the rate of negative and contradictory thoughts tends to increase. It's a normal fear response. Meditators simply observe these thoughts and let them go. They then lose their power.

While psychiatrists will have you latch on to any number of thoughts and explore them to uncover deep wounds and blah, blah. You can spend your whole life down the rabbit hole when THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. What you are feeling is absolutely normal. Sadness, violence, separation, loneliness, depression are a normal part of human experience. Anything you give your attention to, grows. So by focussing on some past experience or hurt, you give it life and power, instead of simply shrugging it off. EVERY ONE OF US IS 'DISEASED' ACCORDING TO THESE DELUSIONAL MADMEN.

How many kids are being given dangerous Ritalin for the completely nonsensical ADD? These crooks are inventing 'diseases' for which they have absolutely no proof. Psychiatry, like the 'sickness industry' is now a money-making enterprise and the sums are VAST. Governments are seizing on psychiatry to effect repressive social control. How many children have been separated from their parents due to psychiatric mumbo-jumbo?

I know how to 'cure' all these stressed people. Stop turning husband and wife against each other. Stop impoverishing men and denying them access to their children in divorce courts. Stop promoting selfishness and the gratification of the senses. Start developing the higher mind. Give them work and a real sense of purpose. People should be uplifted.

I like living in Asia. It has a different view to mental health and there are many approaches to recovering from trauma or prolonged stress, that don't involve toxic chemistry, peddled by pompous, ego-driven 'professionals', giving primacy to the mind.

Exercise, such as Yoga, nutritious food, good friends, giving yourself time to relax, enjoyable hobbies, all help bring peace of mind. 'Detoxing' lifts depression in 7-10 days. I've seen it many times. Flooding the body with oxygen is cleansing:- physically, emotionally and spiritually. (Research 'Art of Living').

The boozers in the bars who are completely jaded after countless empty couplings are not 'mentally ill'. They have lost reverence for life and for themselves. (If they ever had it). Or maybe they are simply bored. Thailand is no different to countless other countries where bars are full of those who opt for 'rum, bum and baccy.' They may be misfits. It doesn't make them abnormal. All they need is to be inspired. Not medicated.

Maybe there are a few who are 'self-tranquillizing'. Who are confused between 'pleasure' and 'happiness'. The former comes from outside, the latter from within. When they reach the point where pleasure no longer hits the spot, they are in trouble. Some may hurl themselves off a Pattaya balconey. Others may last until the heart attack strikes, while some may wake up from their stupor and develop the spiritual aspect which perhaps is the REAL 'hole' they are trying to fill.

100 million people worldwide are on dangerous psychotropic drugs. Their normal emotional and spiritual states reduced to a label that requires medication. There is NO test for their condition. It's just whatever the 'expert' says. Heart attacks, liver problems, immune system problems, drug-induced anxiety and suicide. These are serious side effects. How can someone who is not a doctor and cannot diagnose the cause, be prescribing toxic drugs? Especially to children?

Adderol, Zoloft, Prozac, Seroxat, Valium, Haldol, Lexapro, Clozaril, Ritalin and many more kill 3000 people every month and God knows how many are damaged by them. It's a horror show. 70% of psychotropic drugs are prescribed by general Physicians. How? Marketing. Statistical contortionism skews numbers and has nothing to do with real Science. Science has been replaced by sophisticated marketing.



Psychiatry and Pharmaceuticals are like conjoined twins. They are joined at the wallet. With over 375 'disorders' (and growing), it's a marriage made in heaven. The top 5 psychotropic drugs gross more money than the GDP of half the countries on earth. $18 billion every year. The psychiatric Industry rakes in $330 billion per year. That's a heck of a lot of yachts.

Psychiatrics and Psychologists won't admit they cannot cure you. What they do is 'manage' the 'illness'. With drugs. They use their 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders', which is just a crony collaboration to give them some kind of 'authoritative' status. They WANT to be recognized as eminent and on a par with Medical Doctors so they vote and classify lots of new 'diseases'. The quacks won't get paid UNLESS they give you a 'label'. The DSM is used as a billing tool. You have to be diagnosed with a 'bio-chemical' problem, which of course requires a synthetic chemical solution. Yet. Remember. There are NO tests.

Are you afraid of meeting new people? Afraid of public speaking? Congratulations! You are 'diseased'.

The ONLY psychiatrist I would be willing to see, is one who does NOT prescribe drugs. How many of those are around? Psychiatrists should have remained in the Nut-houses where they can do less harm to the wider society.

In countries where Doctors have gone on strike, death rates went down. I have no doubt the same applies to psychiatrists.

All you drug-peddling parasitical quacks out there? You are knowingly (or unknowingly) killing and injuring to make a buck. Please go on strike and spare us your Dark Art! '

[Jim]

wow!! if that's you relaxed now, you must have been really quite stressed before.

while I have a lot of sympathy for what you say, depression is also a clinical illness and can respond to treatment by these drugs. It may not be entirely natural, but if someone has just been pulled off the edge of a railway bridge, some happy pills are likely to be more use than an arm round the shoulder, 2 tickets to Majorca, a complimentary bottle of factor 15 and a copy of yoga for dummies.

[niggle]

A lengthy post Mr Plum and a load of tosh therin is written.
yes some psychiatrists rely too heavily of drugs (some of which do help in the short term), and many do not. Such generalisations and your use of statistics are incorrect .Not all people are able to retire early, get on a plane and escape the stresses of life by moving to Asia. Count yourself as fortunate.
Many peope suffer from serious debilitating illnesses which render them incapable of living the kind of life you are living or indeed any kind of "normal" life.
Having worked for over 30 years with the seriously mentally ill of all age groups, your view seems to be akin to the misguided notion of care in the community which in reality meant taking a vulnerable person out of a tempoary place of refuge (hence the term asylum) as putting them alone in a pokey bedsit in a town centre and sending a cpn around once a month to give some counselling.
Perhaps of course, if they had the money they could fly here and pay for one of your mental health detoxifying courses.

[MrPlum]

wow!! if that's you relaxed now, you must have been really quite stressed before.

while I have a lot of sympathy for what you say, depression is also a clinical illness and can respond to treatment by these drugs. It may not be entirely natural, but if someone has just been pulled off the edge of a railway bridge, some happy pills are likely to be more use than an arm round the shoulder, 2 tickets to Majorca, a complimentary bottle of factor 15 and a copy of yoga for dummies.

I'm fine thanks. Anger is a normal human emotion and if you've read some of my previous posts you'll know I get a little mischievous pleasure from stirring the pot.

Actually, escaping the country, etc.. DID work for me.

I think that depression can be addressed from the outside in (the body relaxes the mind) as well as from the inside out (the mind relaxes the body). While Psychologists put all their eggs in the mental/drug basket, holistic healers include bodywork, of which there are many techniques.

Reasons for depression vary but a common but undiagnosed cause IMHO is adrenal fatigue. They become exhausted after prolonged stress, or over-stimulation. Insufficient, or too much, cortisone is surging in the system and the mind can become forgetful, lacking in concentration and anxiety develops. Depression easily follows. Some people respond to thyroid treatment. Others to adaptogens and supplements like St. John's Wort, (which may be why attempts have been made to ban it).

I disagree with one comment you made. SSRIs and some of the other drug treatments take weeks before they start to work. How then would they save the guy leaping off the bridge.

Having worked for over 30 years with the seriously mentally ill of all age groups, your view seems to be akin to the misguided notion of care in the community which in reality meant taking a vulnerable person out of a tempoary place of refuge (hence the term asylum) as putting them alone in a pokey bedsit in a town centre and sending a cpn around once a month to give some counselling.

Niggle. Not so. I am more than happy to defer to your experience on this and thank you for your contribution.

You are at liberty to question my motives. My motive is more education and debate than having deeply disturbed people turn up on my doorstep for an enema.

Of course, the severely disturbed need to be seen and managed by a professional. I'm all for keeping them in asylums if that prevents them from harming themselves or others. I do NOT believe in Care for the Community for the deeply disturbed and I'm not sure where you got that idea from? Too many people have been harmed by letting them loose. I'm talking mainly about depression and anxiety, for which I believe drugs are a suspect treatment. I'm also talking about the dubious expansion of an industry for financial gain and the exploitation of the vulnerable. It is happening to a large degree in the U.S. but may not be so prevalent elsewhere. Would you agree that this is happening? Do you accept that ADD is a clinical condition?

I have experience as a customer and I know that, having tried both drugs and a non-drug approach, I benefited far more from the latter.

There have been some troubling treatments adopted by the psychiatric industry, such as 'lobotomy' and 'electro-shock' therapy. In your experience would you day these were appropriate therapies?

Please advice which facts are incorrect and I will be happy to correct them or provide the source.

Thanks.

[STEVE G]

I think there is obviously a big difference between serious mental illness and what are basically normal healthy individuals seeking therapy for what are basically lifestyle problems.
Coming from what is basically a pretty masculine background in the aviation industry, I'm always shocked by the number of people in other fields who seek this kind of therapy for what to me are nothing more than the basic trials of life.
I think the main contributing factor is the fact that most people are getting this for free from a social welfare system because I would be a lot more depressed after paying for that sort of treatment out of my own pocket, as I would have to!

[Sabai Jai]

I agree with Mr Plum to a certain extent. The vast majority of what should be minor problems; Depression, anxiety and stress related psychosomatic illnesses would be much better treated by the methods outlined in the post.
Often the biggest problem for sufferers is either; initially realizing that they do have a condition or in finding sound guidance in dealing with it.
The ‘Therapy Culture’ is a peculiar industry encompassing many aspects of Holistic care and a good number of questionable practises too. It is a very difficult area to navigate for the venerable and inexperienced. It can also be very expensive.

I taught Vipassana Meditation for 12 years, on a voluntary unpaid basis and during that time encountered a very wide range of people and the difficulties they were experiencing. Many of them benefitted from the practice – others didn’t, it appeared to be just not the right path for them.

The most tragic thing I experienced though was the pain that people with serious mental illnesses such as Schizophrenia were going through – it is not easy to help them. The very strong medications they are given do allow some of them to live in the community but they are so suppressed they feel imprisoned by the medication.

Sabai Jai

[niggle]

I do not disagree with much of what you say but there are some points I do take issue with:
Not all psycotropic drugs can be described as brain changing, libido-numbing, zombie-making, toxic potions.

Very very few people with serious mental illness are able to get away from a toxic wife, toxic government, toxic thugs, toxic employer, a toxic immoral media and go and lie in the sun and take a walk in the morning and an hour in the sun.
Many of these people are in the worst forms of social deprivation by virtue of their condition.

er ?divine beings, not debt slaves for fascist corporations ?.

The wealthy don't have these problems. Oh yes they do. They are just in Priory Clinics and hospitals but they have the wherewithall to hide away

Instead they act as tools for the criminal social controllers while preying on the less powerful. You do many eniment, respectable and effective psyhiatrists a gross disservice.

However, I've never heard of anyone actually being 'cured' by a psychiatrist.
Well some mental health problms CAN be cured. Presumably you would say the same about oncologists who can only manage forms of cancer but who cannot cure it ?.

All medicine is subjective. If you hear hooves behind you, you might think its a horse, but it might just be a zebra

Sadness, violence, separation, loneliness, depression are a normal part of human experience. Agree but do not generalise, the depths of a severe depression are so deep that we cannot imaginge it.

Psychiatry, like the 'sickness industry' is now a money-making enterprise and the sums are VAST.
AND JUST HOW MUCH money is the "NATURAL HEALTH" industry making - far more as a whole than psychiatry and who do you think makes these "natural health" products with health food / drugs, supplements, natural remedies in every High street and supermarket.

There are are serious side effects to some "natural produsts" digitalis (foxglove), aspirin (oak bark).

70% of psychotropic drugs are prescribed by general Physicians. Psychotropic drugs may only be prescribed under the supervision of a psychiatrs. A GP may not initiate such medication

The psychiatric Industry rakes in $330 billion per year. That's a heck of a lot of yachts. Perhaps you could also estimate the amount that natural products industry rakes in?

Psychiatrics and Psychologists won't admit they cannot cure you. Oh yes they do
What they do is 'manage' the 'illness'. With drugs. They use their 'Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders', which is just a crony collaboration to give them some kind of 'authoritative' status. AS DO ALL DOCTORS

Nut-houses, this term is offensive to most people with a mental illness and its use shows your ignorance of the subject where they can do less harm to the wider society.

And now I need to point out that I am far , far from bieng a fan of psychiatry and my experience does give me an insight into its limitaions, its faults and its benefits.
Anyway, have fun
I'm off for some rum, bum and baccy (which are, by the way, ALL natural products)

[lindosfan1]

Mr Plum wrote " How many billionaires are classed as 'mentally ill'? Even though we know they are immoral sociopaths, there isn't a psychiatrist that would dare say so. Instead they act as tools for the criminal social controllers while preying on the less powerful."

What is your source for this bigotry. More ravings of a demented idiot.
To classify all people in the same category is sheer stupidity and shows lack of moral judgement.

Mr plum wrote "All you drug-peddling parasitical quacks out there?"
Definition of a quack " an unqualified person who claims to have medical knowledge"
What did you say your quailifications were?

Mr plum wrote
"100 million people worldwide are on dangerous psychotropic drugs"
Your source please

mr plum wrote
"I know how to 'cure' all these stressed people. Stop turning husband and wife against each other. Stop impoverishing men and denying them access to their children in divorce courts. Stop promoting selfishness and the gratification of the senses. Start developing the higher mind. Give them work and a real sense of purpose. People should be uplifted."

How???? and what are your qualifications for this piece of drivel

Niggle wrote "A lengthy post Mr Plum and a load of tosh therin is written."
Niggle you are spot on these generalisations are dangerous, Mr plum you would do well to listen to a TRAINED expert.

[niggle]

Having re read Mr Plum's second post. I realise I did not respond to a valid question he wrote
That was
There have been some troubling treatments adopted by the psychiatric industry, such as 'lobotomy' and 'electro-shock' therapy. In your experience would you day these were appropriate therapies?

Lobotomy. many many years ago I did nurse some patients who had lobotomies in the past (ususally for intractable violence). The majoroty were cabbage - alised (is that a word). Saying that we do have to bear in mind that in those days there was no chemical coshes available.However times and treatments move on. I do not agree that in that form lobotomies were in any way a civilised treatment but what was the alternative then. I believe that some hospitals do still perform lobotomies though these are very very few and far between and whilst less barbaric and much much more effective without the horrible side effects of long ago, I still do not feel this is yet done in a way which benefits the patient.

ECT , now, I witnessed /assisted in this in acute psychiatry the early 70s. Not good then and not that effective (in most cases0.
It is still used nowadays though much less so than of late. Naturally it is much more "refined' and medicallised now. In certain cases of treatment resistant depression, it can help the patient to achieve a state where they are in a position to be able to deal with the problems they have in different ways
So I guess my opinion on it is reserved but in fairness I have witnessed many patients achieve a positive response where drug treatment is inappropriate or ineffective. Side effects? of course, as with anything.

[Super Joe]

Removed SJ.

[JD]

I am not taking any sides in this debate, but can we please keep it to a reasoned discussion and not let our emotive sides get caught up in petty name calling.

Pour yourself a stiff one, take another chill pill or roll another fat one, we are all playing the same game, whatever get's you sane.

[MrPlum]

I do not disagree with much of what you say but there are some points I do take issue with:

I've spoken enough but feel a courtesy is called for to clarify some points and I need to deal with the house heckler.

I have criticized the 'Natural health Industry', so we are in agreement.

'Nut-house' was a poor choice of word and not one I would usually use. Apologies.

Most of the stats are coming out of the U.S. which has a huge marketing effort and advertises these drugs on mainstream TV. Countries outside the U.S. have greater constraints on drug advertising and accessibility. It remains to be seen if they will go down the American path.

Yes. 'As do all Doctors'.

Agreed. Apparently 1000 people per year die just from taking one aspirin.

Having been 'in the pit' I'm more than aware of how deep depression can go. Those who have not experienced it have absolutely no idea.

The 'divine beings' concept is taught by most religions and spiritual centres. Once you accept it, it can be powerful medicine.

Alcoholics I have seen at first hand, often go into a deep spiral, invariably taking their families with them. I took a Father-in-law several times to 'St. James' in Portsmouth to dry out. Died at 49 in a terrible condition. Words can't describe how sad such tragedies are.

'happy pills' is better than my description, that's for sure.

'fascist corporations'?
Yes. I would describe 'fascism' as the promotion of the interests of private corporations in government over the interests of the public. Corporations have no loyalty to their workers and are currently driving down worker benefits and pensions. Mass unemployment and low wages=stressed labour force.

'Debt slaves'?
People on 'sink estates' who suffer poverty and poverty-related mental health problems. Credit card and other debt is at an all-time high. Workers who are dependent on welfare. Those who are hopelessly trapped by poverty and lack of opportunity. I know it causes depression because I have spent months counseling a young man who was suicidal for those exact reasons. (No, lindosfan1. I'm not qualified).

Despite the eminence of some psychiatrists, governments DO use psychiatry as a tool of social control. http://www.davidsmail.info/winkel.htm

There are increasing incidents where parents have had their children taken away because they refuse to let them be medicated. 'Forced Psychiatry' is a very dangerous phenomenon. Or when mass media is used for mind control. Hitler was a staunch supporter of German psychiatric theories and methods. While communist Russia under Stalin was a nightmare for anyone caught up in the system. When we hear that '9-11 truthers' are 'mentally ill' or Jews who are against Zionism are 'self-hating' or homosexuality and PMS are "mental illnesses", we need to ask which 'eminent' Psychiatrists are signing up to this? One would hope they are fighting it.

Social Services or Child protection agencies are too often State Kidnappers. The California and Florida systems are heaving under the case loads of children taken from their parents under highly dubious 'protective' pretexts. Refusing to vaccinate is another example of this trend where the State owns the children rather than the parent. Thousands of families are being torn apart. We had similar experiences in Scotland not so long ago. Do a search for 'social services out of control' and judge for yourself.

Many of us are parents. We ignore these incidents at our peril.

lindosfan1
'bigotry', 'ravings', 'demented idiot', 'sheer stupidity', 'lack of moral judgment', 'piece of drivel', 'dangerous' and my all-time favourite 'crush you like a bug',

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh.

Previous text deleted for ease of reading.

Here are some links for those who are serious about knowing more.

'Absurd Medical Models of Human Behavior'
http://www.bigeye.com/szasz.htm

'Psychiatry Exposed' (Short but enlightening videos)
http://www.youtube.com/user/imstillstanding2036

MrP

[MrPlum]

From the UK 'Times' Newspaper:

'Family justice: the secret state that steals our children'

'Every year thousands of children are taken from their parents, largely on the say-so of ‘experts'. It is a secret and sometimes unjust process and the system must change'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 271773.ece

Come on folks. Get angry.

[Spitfire]

I feel sorry for the mod that has to spend an hour reading each of your posts MrP and then exercise enough mental agility to decide whether it's "in court" or not.



Looks like JD got the short straw tonight.

Jun fun MrP.

[MrPlum]

I feel sorry for the mod that has to spend an hour reading each of your posts MrP and then exercise enough mental agility to decide whether it's "in court" or not.

Goes with the territory, Spitfire.

If he 'cans' it, I've made copies.