Just when most bars were happy of a few customers to help pay the monthly rent thru' the low-season those damn 'copywrite police' hit them again.
This time even if the bars have their certificates up on the wall to show they'd paid daft money for 'public-playing' of music,they still got hit for home-made CDs,etc.
(Yes we know its a petty crime)
Last night many bars were fined 20,000b and CDs confiscated,(they demanded 40,000b at first!!). The bar I was in had a girl who protested and the Huahin police locked her up in the 'monkey-house'...is there any need for this heavy-handed action?? (smacks of the Aussie lady's drama with Phuket police last week).
Do we have to sit and drink without music? Is the bar-owner gonna nip back to Europe and buy maybe 500,000b of non-copied CDs??
Is it another nail in the coffin for the bars in the centre?
The Sony/Grammy/police hit bars again last night
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usual suspect
- Ace
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Wanderlust
- Legend
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I have been hearing about this as well, and wondered whether this happens in other parts of Thailand as well? Is it supposed to be action aimed at appeasing the record companies in the US and Europe or just a straightforward money making scheme for the police? I can guarantee that any money collected is not accounted for in any official accounts anywhere, nor any receipts issued... 
Generally feel sorry for the bar owners, many of which are mates, but ......
Is it not the case that when we buy a copy CD/DVD we are taking advantage of the corruption that exists here. What then gives us the right to complain when we get hit by corruption, no matter how obscene the fine is. We are actually stealing from the record companies don't forget, not that I give one hoot about that and do it myself, just playing devils advocate, can't stand whinging.
But isn't it a bit hypocritical of us ? Will Farangs ever be man enough to take the rough with the smooth ?
SJ
PS: Yes, I know 'part' of many bars CD collection are legit one's from back home.
Is it not the case that when we buy a copy CD/DVD we are taking advantage of the corruption that exists here. What then gives us the right to complain when we get hit by corruption, no matter how obscene the fine is. We are actually stealing from the record companies don't forget, not that I give one hoot about that and do it myself, just playing devils advocate, can't stand whinging.
But isn't it a bit hypocritical of us ? Will Farangs ever be man enough to take the rough with the smooth ?
SJ
PS: Yes, I know 'part' of many bars CD collection are legit one's from back home.
Last edited by Super Joe on Sat May 30, 2009 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And another thing .........
Can someone show me a post where any bar owner posted how happy and thankful he was to the police, because for just a 1,000 Baht, he was allowed to stay open until 5am showing last years Champions League final (Chels vs. Man U) where the bar took 25,000 Baht in takings AFTER their official closing time.
We woz well happy with a bit of corruption that night. We're such 'kin hypocrits.
Sorry rant over, back to topic .....
SJ
Can someone show me a post where any bar owner posted how happy and thankful he was to the police, because for just a 1,000 Baht, he was allowed to stay open until 5am showing last years Champions League final (Chels vs. Man U) where the bar took 25,000 Baht in takings AFTER their official closing time.
We woz well happy with a bit of corruption that night. We're such 'kin hypocrits.
Sorry rant over, back to topic .....
SJ
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sandman67
- Rock Star
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- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:11 pm
- Location: I thought you had the map?
yes the Grammy Scam squad are out and about - have been for the last 2 weeks. Scamming and theiving as usual.
A mates bar got done despite him showing them the receipt for the new licence and a letter showing it was being printed....their answer was he should close the bar or not play any music till the new one arrived.
Basically this is a complete scam. I work in IPT and this lot have not one legal leg to stand on. The Thai govt Department of Intellectual Property is the only recognised IPR enforcement body in Thailand.
They DO NOT represent any legal authority at all other than might is right. They certainly have no copyright control over farang music, and no right to carry out any enforcement on behalf of inernational IPT organisations.
This is just another Thai semi-officialdom lets make the law up as we go along scam.
All funds collected go directly into the pockets of the plod, themselves and the council.
This will carry on as long as every bar owner carries on looking out for themselves, which is what is happening. You make yourselves easy marks for these theiveing swine......
Get together, get organised, get legal advice as a group and exert some muscle....involve the press......make some noise in BKK.....the local tosspot council will wake up then.
That or carry on looking out for yourselves and getting screwed.
A mates bar got done despite him showing them the receipt for the new licence and a letter showing it was being printed....their answer was he should close the bar or not play any music till the new one arrived.
Basically this is a complete scam. I work in IPT and this lot have not one legal leg to stand on. The Thai govt Department of Intellectual Property is the only recognised IPR enforcement body in Thailand.
They DO NOT represent any legal authority at all other than might is right. They certainly have no copyright control over farang music, and no right to carry out any enforcement on behalf of inernational IPT organisations.
This is just another Thai semi-officialdom lets make the law up as we go along scam.
All funds collected go directly into the pockets of the plod, themselves and the council.
This will carry on as long as every bar owner carries on looking out for themselves, which is what is happening. You make yourselves easy marks for these theiveing swine......
Get together, get organised, get legal advice as a group and exert some muscle....involve the press......make some noise in BKK.....the local tosspot council will wake up then.
That or carry on looking out for yourselves and getting screwed.
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Farangs fighting the system in Thailand ?? Great advice.sandman67 wrote:Get together, get organised, get legal advice as a group and exert some muscle....involve the press......make some noise in BKK.....the local tosspot council will wake up then.
Yes, this will wake up the local council, it may just force them to look into:
-Illegal copyright products in your bar.
-Your abuse of the Thai labor laws with regard your staff.
-Prosecution due to your involvement in illegal prostitution.
- Your prosecution and possible deportation due to your illegal contravention of the Foreign Business Act.
- Ditto income tax evasion.
- Ditto working without a Work Permit and appropriate visa. Physical working or not your signature is on the lease, other docs, you receiving an income etc etc
Take on the Thai authorities ..... great advice.
SJ
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sandman67
- Rock Star
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- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:11 pm
- Location: I thought you had the map?
SJ
worked in Chang Mai a few years ago mate. Barowners got together and raised some noise.....plod and council see their meal ticket under threat and back down rapidly under the glare of media and BKK real authorities.
Dons case is a good example of how getting BKK involved, ie the REAL authorities, can result in action whereas approaching the local make laws up as they go along idiots gets nothing done.
The legal representative of a group of owners could ask for the relevant authority for what they are doing, maybe even ask the DIP to clarify the legal status of this, citing relevant law and statute. Challenge them legally through the courts as a class action so they cant pick on any one individual barowner. Do it as a group.....works better.
A Bar Owners Association - thai and farang members - would have a better chance of making HH a viable option. As is, the scammers are having their own way and making business here increasingly difficult and unprofitable.
The only time anything positive gets done here is when the locals are subjected to the steely gaze of BKK.
There is no comparison between this scam and the tea fund/pool table tax/sod off mr plod payments, other than some of the money ends up in the same pockets.
And just to be clear bro - Im not involved with a bar. Amy is. Not me, not mine. I just act as the messenger passing on comments. Her business, not mine. I wouldnt own a business here for all the tea in China, and partcularly one that would need to employ Thais.
my attitude to this: Som Nam Na.....first time this happened 18 months ago the owners should have got together and raised a stink then. They didnt, and now they are reaping the crop their apathy sowed, and reaping it in spades.
Seems Mai Pen Rai is infectious.
Seems the translation of it is TIT.
worked in Chang Mai a few years ago mate. Barowners got together and raised some noise.....plod and council see their meal ticket under threat and back down rapidly under the glare of media and BKK real authorities.
Dons case is a good example of how getting BKK involved, ie the REAL authorities, can result in action whereas approaching the local make laws up as they go along idiots gets nothing done.
The legal representative of a group of owners could ask for the relevant authority for what they are doing, maybe even ask the DIP to clarify the legal status of this, citing relevant law and statute. Challenge them legally through the courts as a class action so they cant pick on any one individual barowner. Do it as a group.....works better.
A Bar Owners Association - thai and farang members - would have a better chance of making HH a viable option. As is, the scammers are having their own way and making business here increasingly difficult and unprofitable.
The only time anything positive gets done here is when the locals are subjected to the steely gaze of BKK.
There is no comparison between this scam and the tea fund/pool table tax/sod off mr plod payments, other than some of the money ends up in the same pockets.
And just to be clear bro - Im not involved with a bar. Amy is. Not me, not mine. I just act as the messenger passing on comments. Her business, not mine. I wouldnt own a business here for all the tea in China, and partcularly one that would need to employ Thais.
my attitude to this: Som Nam Na.....first time this happened 18 months ago the owners should have got together and raised a stink then. They didnt, and now they are reaping the crop their apathy sowed, and reaping it in spades.
Seems Mai Pen Rai is infectious.
Seems the translation of it is TIT.
"Science flew men to the moon. Religion flew men into buildings."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
"To sin by silence makes cowards of men."
Re: The Sony/Grammy/police hit bars again last night
Apparently it was the obviously home-made CDs they were looking for if the certificates was in order. They didn't care about the pirated ones from e.g grand marked. I guess they look real enough....usual suspect wrote:Just when most bars were happy of a few customers to help pay the monthly rent thru' the low-season those damn 'copywrite police' hit them again.
This time even if the bars have their certificates up on the wall to show they'd paid daft money for 'public-playing' of music,they still got hit for home-made CDs,etc.
(Yes we know its a petty crime)
Last night many bars were fined 20,000b and CDs confiscated,(they demanded 40,000b at first!!). The bar I was in had a girl who protested and the Huahin police locked her up in the 'monkey-house'...is there any need for this heavy-handed action?? (smacks of the Aussie lady's drama with Phuket police last week).
Do we have to sit and drink without music? Is the bar-owner gonna nip back to Europe and buy maybe 500,000b of non-copied CDs??
Is it another nail in the coffin for the bars in the centre?
Of course its a scam. They have hit on this as a nice earner when their wallets need a thickener. Somehow I doubt very much that Constable Somchai and Chief Boonang have connections in the legal/copyright departments at EMI, Universal, Sony etc.
But confronting them is not the answer nor is going up the food chain. They have too many ways to make life VERY miserable for bar owners. Do things the Thai way, a bit of butter discreetly spread.
But confronting them is not the answer nor is going up the food chain. They have too many ways to make life VERY miserable for bar owners. Do things the Thai way, a bit of butter discreetly spread.
Happiness can't buy money
Sandman,
Or taking your point then 'There is no comparison between this scam and the abuse of Thai Labour Laws that bars impose on their staff'. Thai Labour law states: "violation is an offence punishable by imprisonment or a fine."
Have we addressed breaking the FBA regulations yet, let's save that one for another time, maybe their legal counsel will forget to bring it up during initial hearings. Just play 'their' game, that's all we can do. Play with fire and you'll get burnt.
SJ
PS: Not referring to you at all SM, you've made clear before on here a couple of times that its not your business.
PPS: Much of the above 'can' refer to all Farang run businesses here, not just bars, mine too, not being hypocritical just not a whinger.
Chiang Mai bar owners are still coughing up to this day.worked in Chang Mai a few years ago mate. Barowners got together and raised some noise.....plod and council see their meal ticket under threat and back down rapidly under the glare of media and BKK real authorities.
Equally the Thais being challenged would have their legal representative request the DIP check if the Farang bar owners operations were legal under Thai law. Result = prosecutions, fines and possible deportations.The legal representative of a group of owners could ask for the relevant authority for what they are doing, maybe even ask the DIP to clarify the legal status of this, citing relevant law and statute. Challenge them legally through the courts
They would have zero chance. Been involved in several attempted 'Association' formations, for them to be a legal entity members would need to provide details of their work permits, appropriate visas, details of company employing them (that'd be their wife then) or their own Limited companies complete with 4 members of Thai staff and those staff's receipts demnstrating monthly withholding tax and social security contributions from the Revenue Department. Twice yearly company accounts blah blah blah. You know as well as I do, bar owners don't do WP's.A Bar Owners Association - Thai and Farang members - would have a better chance of making HH a viable option
Yes there is, it all comes under the umbrella known as 'corruption', just different degrees.There is no comparison between this scam and the tea fund/pool table tax/sod off mr plod payments, other than some of the money ends up in the same pockets.
Or taking your point then 'There is no comparison between this scam and the abuse of Thai Labour Laws that bars impose on their staff'. Thai Labour law states: "violation is an offence punishable by imprisonment or a fine."
Have we addressed breaking the FBA regulations yet, let's save that one for another time, maybe their legal counsel will forget to bring it up during initial hearings. Just play 'their' game, that's all we can do. Play with fire and you'll get burnt.
SJ
PS: Not referring to you at all SM, you've made clear before on here a couple of times that its not your business.
PPS: Much of the above 'can' refer to all Farang run businesses here, not just bars, mine too, not being hypocritical just not a whinger.
Last edited by Super Joe on Sun May 31, 2009 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wanderlust
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- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
Taking this discussion onto a slightly different tack, while the copyright laws have their roots in trying to protect artists and ensuring they get paid for their work, the way they are employed in most countries now for music (and probably other art forms) is scandalous. I used to manage a record shop in the UK, and as well as paying the highly inflated prices to the record companies for their products, all places that play music have to have a licence to do so, with the majority of the fee (several hundred pounds per annum now I think) going to the record companies. Can anyone else think of a company or industry that charges an extra fee to a business that is promoting and selling its product? The radio/TV stations also have to pay a fee, so effectively the record companies don't only get free advertising, they get paid by the person advertising their product! Totally insane. This article is interesting on the issue.
As a point of reference, about ten years ago the cost to produce a CD, including all royalty payments, production, packaging, marketing and distribution, was about £1 per disc; the price charged to the shops for new titles was over £8, who then sold them for anywhere between £11 and £16 depending on their popularity. Of course the shops had to pay for an expensive high street location, staff etc etc out of whatever gross profit they might make. Very few titles were 'sale or return/exchange' so the record shops also had to take the hit if a release flopped, and why there were always great bargains to be had in the sale sections if you were prepared to wait. The record companies even had the cheek to send the discs out with recommended price stickers on them (which we often removed as there was no profit for the shop if those prices were adhered to). The situation in the UK, and probably elsewhere too, for music retail outlets has changed dramatically since I left, and I doubt that there are even half as many outlets selling music now, particularly with the demise of Woolworths. The record companies screwed both the shops and the customers for many years, and I for one have no problem screwing them back now by downloading my music for nothing, although I do have a twinge of sympathy for the artists who for some time have only really made money by touring. That is why so many smaller acts make their music available for free or very cheap on the internet, as it helps bring more people to their shows.
As a point of reference, about ten years ago the cost to produce a CD, including all royalty payments, production, packaging, marketing and distribution, was about £1 per disc; the price charged to the shops for new titles was over £8, who then sold them for anywhere between £11 and £16 depending on their popularity. Of course the shops had to pay for an expensive high street location, staff etc etc out of whatever gross profit they might make. Very few titles were 'sale or return/exchange' so the record shops also had to take the hit if a release flopped, and why there were always great bargains to be had in the sale sections if you were prepared to wait. The record companies even had the cheek to send the discs out with recommended price stickers on them (which we often removed as there was no profit for the shop if those prices were adhered to). The situation in the UK, and probably elsewhere too, for music retail outlets has changed dramatically since I left, and I doubt that there are even half as many outlets selling music now, particularly with the demise of Woolworths. The record companies screwed both the shops and the customers for many years, and I for one have no problem screwing them back now by downloading my music for nothing, although I do have a twinge of sympathy for the artists who for some time have only really made money by touring. That is why so many smaller acts make their music available for free or very cheap on the internet, as it helps bring more people to their shows.
The Sonny-Grommy-police hit bars again last night
Hi..Super Joe.
Were is legal prostitution located.............
TWIGGY
Were is legal prostitution located.............
TWIGGY