Thailand - the new Spain

[Jaime]

In the thread on 'What does Hua Hin need' Guess replied to a question on tailors in Hua Hin as follows:

The cost of a tailor made suit is a fraction of what it would be even in relatively low cost farang countries like Spain.

Having one foot in the UK, one foot in Spain (Mallorca to be precise) and my third leg in Thailand, I would say that tailoring and clothing in general in Spain seems rather pricey to me these days - I can buy cheaper here in the UK. The Euro, various employment regulations and massive social and infrastructure improvements over the last twenty years have seen to that. But significantly, so has greed.

I have heard it said that in holidaying terms, Thailand is the new Spain and I used to think of Spain as a land of smiles - but not any more. I see some parallels in the way tourists are starting to be dealt with in Thailand - fewer smiles, higher prices. I sense some overt resentment of the farang is creeping in too. The difference is, in Spain you can assimilate (most Brits can't be bothered of course), in Thailand you cannot, so as the economic advantage gradually levels out and the things we love about Thailand start being diluted, will Thailand have the same appeal? As my dad says - "People will follow the sun." In the west we have become used to the idea that a foreign holiday means going somewhere that is cheaper, friendlier and more grateful than our own countries, usually with a generous exchange rate to boot. And if they find somewhere cheaper and friendlier that is where they will head. Spain has seen this happen, with Northern European tourists leaving Spanish shores for Greece, Turkey and Thailand in turn.

Of course, this won't happen over night but I hope that my level of disillusionment with the real "Land of my Father" will not be mirrored by Thailand in twenty years time. However, development does not come without a price so if the smiles, wais and mai pen rais do disappear then lets hope that they are at least replaced by better residency rights for farangs, decent infrastructure, better education, professional police, cleaner streets, etc.? Too much to hope for?

[lomuamart]

You've raised a lot of points, Jaime.
I won't even try to address all of them here, except to say that people are pretty shallow everywhere in the world.
So, if you miss a wai or a handshake, don't let it bother you.
There surely must have been some jealousy in Spain. So, there is in Thailand.
The grass is always greener etc.

[tonychang]

and my third leg in Thailand.

Fnarr fnarr

[Guess]

In the thread on 'What does Hua Hin need' Guess replied to a question on tailors in Hua Hin as follows:

The cost of a tailor made suit is a fraction of what it would be even in relatively low cost farang countries like Spain.

I would say that tailoring and clothing in general in Spain seems rather pricey to me these days - I can buy cheaper here in the UK. The Euro, various employment regulations and massive social and infrastructure improvements over the last twenty years have seen to that. But significantly, so has greed.

All very valid points.

I used to work in the City of London and a well cut suit was the uniform of the profession. However only the very well heeled could afford to buy tailor made suits in London. These would start at about 600 PSTabout seven years ago but the quality would be good. Most people elected for off the peg Austin Reed and have the necessary alterations done.

Alas, the City of London like the Costa del Sol are now fading into distant memory and of course things change.

I have heard though that Spain has become expensive since the introduction of the Euro despite the fact that the PST has maintained its position alongside the world basket.

Thailand "being the new Spain" has been voiced in many circles for some time now. I just hope that developers, hoteliers and tour operators can learn by the mistakes that were made in Spain in the seventies and eighties. However I think not.

[Jaime]

and my third leg in Thailand.

Fnarr fnarr

Sorry, my childish Finbar Saunders side couldn't resist it - but well spotted!

I just hope that developers, hoteliers and tour operators can learn by the mistakes that were made in Spain in the seventies and eighties.

The irony is that during that period, when middle class self styled 'travellers' (tourists to you and I) were turning their noses up at Spain for more 'authentic' destinations, 'the real Spain' or at least 'the real Mallorca' (again I base my observations on Mallorca - which as I am sure someone will rightly point out is not the whole of Spain) still existed untouched if you wanted it - it is only after 'the real Mallorca' was marketed in the 90's as an up market destination that 'the real Mallorca' started to disappear! My first experience of village life in up-country rural Thailand reminded me strongly of holidays in my father's village in Mallorca in the seventies. Now that is all gone - swept away by a tide of northern European immigration, sanitising and reinventing the place in its own image in the 90's. Unseen Thailand Beware!

[lomuamart]

Another aspect of the situation is that tourists are pretty much "unseen" in Thailand at the moment.
The country's crying out for this revenue stream after the tsunami and other adverse publicity. Hong Kong and Singapore are investing heavily to attract visitors, Cambodia makes itself visa friendly and sadly Thailand lags behind and is, as normal , reactive rather than proactive.
I couldn't agree more with the sentiments raised on this thread and I certainly wouldn't want the essential flavour of the country to disappear - that's a big reason why I'm here.
But the country could be a bit more flexible and most importantly be seen to be so. I do feel that forigners are increasingly regarded as a lower form of life here. The country was far more welcoming 15 years ago.
Thai rak Thai.

[Khun Chang]

But the country could be a bit more flexible and most importantly be seen to be so. I do feel that forigners are increasingly regarded as a lower form of life here. The country was far more welcoming 15 years ago.
Thai rak Thai.

Thats a concern as I'm due to retire to Thailand in two years time.


lomuamart what's your experience of this?

[lomuamart]

But the country could be a bit more flexible and most importantly be seen to be so. I do feel that forigners are increasingly regarded as a lower form of life here. The country was far more welcoming 15 years ago.
Thai rak Thai.

Thats a concern as I'm due to retire to Thailand in two years time.


lomuamart what's your experience of this?

Just a blow off on unimportant issues such as land/property rights, citizenship/permanent residency, two tier pricing and the general feeling I get that the powers that be like our money, but not us.
I still love the country and am married to a Thai. Rather, that personal feeling may have evolved through seeing the country for the first time in 1989, during a period of huge economic growth. Then having benefited initially through exchange rates during the collapse of the late '90s.
Thailand's getting back on course bit by bit economically, but it'll take a while and in the meantime there may still be some resentment expressed towards the apparantly rich farangs who have chosen to move here and lead a better life than they had "back home".
That's all really.

[ajarnfrank]

I just spent 13 boring days as a tourist in Mallorca, Spain (Palma), and it cost 28.5 euros for the hotel to send out less laundry than what I carried in my backback to a laundry for 9.5 euros. In Chiang Mai, the same laundry service might cost 2 euros. I found prices in Mallorca as I did in London and western Ireland - frightfully expensive, on an order of magnitude several times anything you'd pay in Thailand.

A long-timer in Mallorca said that just a few years ago, when they switched to the euro, Spain increased all prices 50%. If you have a currency like the US Dollar, which lost 30% of its value in the last two years, you get another double whammy. I'm not going back.

Mallorca is a tourist town. Don't go alone; the other tourists are as standoffish as the locals are.

Weather was great, but the water temperature in the Mediterranean was about 70 F, and Hua Hin is aboutg 80 F. Too cold to be comfortable, and not very clean, either.

The hassles of living in Thailand are many, but the benefits overcome it. Unless you're a long term resident on a tourist stamp....

[mil_dos]

Spain is an over-priced, underperforming p*sspot of EU subsidised mediocrity. I'd sell up but it's also an over hyped, collapsing property market.
Thailand may have it's faults but in the greed and disappointment stakes it's just a learner compared to Spain.

[PeteB]

Learning quickly, I'm afraid!

Peter

[lockwood74]

Some interesting comments made in an earlier article about Thailand being the new Spain, Sould it be in 30 years time that Thailand is the new JAPAN. At present thailand offers a good opportunity for investment and cheap hilidays. Anyone who has invested in property is likely to gain significantly from the growth of SE Asia;particularly if they decide to sell up in lets say 10 years time or longer. With regards to cheap holidays I am not convinced that they will always be the bargain that they offer today, particularly for the traveller who wants to live in budget accommodation. The pound is currently overvalued against Asian currencies. The next 5-10 years is likely to see a significant correction, particularly as Asian economies grow and become more wealthy. Enjoy Thailand whilst it is still cheap !!!!!!!

[lomuamart]

Some interesting comments made in an earlier article about Thailand being the new Spain, Sould it be in 30 years time that Thailand is the new JAPAN. At present thailand offers a good opportunity for investment and cheap hilidays. Anyone who has invested in property is likely to gain significantly from the growth of SE Asia;particularly if they decide to sell up in lets say 10 years time or longer. With regards to cheap holidays I am not convinced that they will always be the bargain that they offer today, particularly for the traveller who wants to live in budget accommodation. The pound is currently overvalued against Asian currencies. The next 5-10 years is likely to see a significant correction, particularly as Asian economies grow and become more wealthy. Enjoy Thailand whilst it is still cheap !!!!!!!

I notice you mentioned the exchange rate thing on another thread.
I was here 7 years ago when the rate was 90 to the pound. It then stabilised at 60 for years. Now hovering at around the 70 mark. I don't see it going back to the 40 to the pound that it was say 12-15 years ago.
60 is about right IMHO. What's your take?

[kaokalok]

Experts say,due to the extreme quickly growth of the BIP (dont know if it's correct in English),the Baht could see another important devaluation like in 1997 in about 2 or 3 years.

[lockwood74]

Experts say,due to the extreme quickly growth of the BIP (dont know if it's correct in English),the Baht could see another important devaluation like in 1997 in about 2 or 3 years.


Hi
Regarding your comments.

Who are the experts ?
Can you provide further information regarding this ?
Why in 2-3 years ?

Regards John Lockwood