sandman67 wrote:........the nearest big bit Mrs S is from in Roi Et....
Is there a connection here?johnnyk wrote:"i've been rich and i've been poor... believe me, rich is better"
- Mae West
Where do we fit in?
Different here and there
Regard for farangs is not the same in every part of Thailand!
This is my conclusion from my experiences here over the past seven years. I notice the difference especially when I travel to my spouse's village up in Issan or when I'm wandering around Udon. There seems to be much more deference and respect given to farangs in general and I am not talking about people who know me well, who know that I am a university professor or who even know who I am. . just your average Thai in the street.
Interestingly my own regard for farangs changes too. When I pass a farang with a Thai girl in Udon, I assume they are a married couple whereas the same sight in Hua Hin makes me think punter & bar girl. Not a conscious thing. .just something that slowly came to my notice over the years. Maybe this is something to consider: Thais who live and work with tourists day after day, and who have chosen to live in a town where most farangs are found in the bars are bound to have a different view than people in non-tourist towns, small rural villages or perhaps students who only know farangs as professors. In these situations I would equate regard, respect and how we "fit in" as equal to the way upper class Thai people fit in.
I have never experienced the "mud level" described at the beginning of this thread! Yes, I have met a few rude Thai people, but in all social situations and most government, shopping, touring or work situations I am wai'ed and given as much respect as I have seen given to upper class Thai people.
As well, many young Thais we have met envy my spouse for having nabbed a farang and are always asking if I have a friend or if we are willing to do some matchmaking. So there is some perceived value/ inherent status there and yes, that is probably based on the "fact" that farangs have money and can arrange visas abroad. But isnt the respect accorded upper level Thai people based on the very same "money/connection power"?
And I am blessed with my inlaws who demand nothing and appreciate everything we do give them. They are obviously and openly very proud of me. [/url]
This is my conclusion from my experiences here over the past seven years. I notice the difference especially when I travel to my spouse's village up in Issan or when I'm wandering around Udon. There seems to be much more deference and respect given to farangs in general and I am not talking about people who know me well, who know that I am a university professor or who even know who I am. . just your average Thai in the street.
Interestingly my own regard for farangs changes too. When I pass a farang with a Thai girl in Udon, I assume they are a married couple whereas the same sight in Hua Hin makes me think punter & bar girl. Not a conscious thing. .just something that slowly came to my notice over the years. Maybe this is something to consider: Thais who live and work with tourists day after day, and who have chosen to live in a town where most farangs are found in the bars are bound to have a different view than people in non-tourist towns, small rural villages or perhaps students who only know farangs as professors. In these situations I would equate regard, respect and how we "fit in" as equal to the way upper class Thai people fit in.
I have never experienced the "mud level" described at the beginning of this thread! Yes, I have met a few rude Thai people, but in all social situations and most government, shopping, touring or work situations I am wai'ed and given as much respect as I have seen given to upper class Thai people.
As well, many young Thais we have met envy my spouse for having nabbed a farang and are always asking if I have a friend or if we are willing to do some matchmaking. So there is some perceived value/ inherent status there and yes, that is probably based on the "fact" that farangs have money and can arrange visas abroad. But isnt the respect accorded upper level Thai people based on the very same "money/connection power"?
And I am blessed with my inlaws who demand nothing and appreciate everything we do give them. They are obviously and openly very proud of me. [/url]
Last edited by Chas on Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Duplicate post sorry
Too impatient and either my computer or HHAD hit a momentary glitch. To make this worthwhile, I will add that when we do stay in the village up north, my spouse handles all the finances and social obligations.
As far as living in a village in Issan goes, I seem to find that the more time you spend there the easier things get.
I spend a week or so up there every couple of months and now after about five years I pretty much get left alone as the novelty has worn off with the locals. Obviously everybody is in a different situation with regards to their partner’s family, but I have never had any problems with mine.
Others have stated that it’s better to let your partner handle any financial matters in the village and I’ve found this to be the best course of action as well.
Another factor is that over the last few years’ people in these rural areas have got wealthier so there are not so many people in a desperate situation as was perhaps the case in the past.
I think it also helps to be seen around doing manual tasks like fixing things and a bit of gardening and farming, as rich Thais won’t do this and it helps get the message across that you are not hugely wealthy (unless you are!).
I’ve found that one thing that makes a big difference is that most of us living in these areas have adopted Thai children, which tends to make you more accepted in the community.
I know it’s not for everybody, but I’ve met many farangs who live perfectly contented lives up in Issan and pretty much get treated as locals. One thing is you don’t have to worry so much about officialdom and you can get involved in farming and things like this without worrying about work permits and the rest of it. Basically you don’t get any police in the village unless the headman requests it, so as long as you get on with him you won’t get any problems.
I spend a week or so up there every couple of months and now after about five years I pretty much get left alone as the novelty has worn off with the locals. Obviously everybody is in a different situation with regards to their partner’s family, but I have never had any problems with mine.
Others have stated that it’s better to let your partner handle any financial matters in the village and I’ve found this to be the best course of action as well.
Another factor is that over the last few years’ people in these rural areas have got wealthier so there are not so many people in a desperate situation as was perhaps the case in the past.
I think it also helps to be seen around doing manual tasks like fixing things and a bit of gardening and farming, as rich Thais won’t do this and it helps get the message across that you are not hugely wealthy (unless you are!).
I’ve found that one thing that makes a big difference is that most of us living in these areas have adopted Thai children, which tends to make you more accepted in the community.
I know it’s not for everybody, but I’ve met many farangs who live perfectly contented lives up in Issan and pretty much get treated as locals. One thing is you don’t have to worry so much about officialdom and you can get involved in farming and things like this without worrying about work permits and the rest of it. Basically you don’t get any police in the village unless the headman requests it, so as long as you get on with him you won’t get any problems.
Indeed, where DO we fit in?
A lot depends on the locals' perception of us. And my perception of the other parties.
Example 1:
In my soi in Bangkok,there is a Swiss guy who has been here for about two years or so, late fifties, and living off a generous medical stipend from his country. He was generally seen at the local provision shop from early morning looking quite dishevelled and surrounded by cans of Chang.
I have on occasion had a sit-down with him (as I am friendly with the shopkeeper) but his English isn't good. He has a live-in female companion, and a now one-year-old - not his by his own admission as he's been doctored. The companion disappears for days on end with the kid, which is when he drinks himself silly, and she'll only come back when she needs the money. He won't - maybe can't - let go.
The shopkeeper just shrugs with a 'nothing-you-or-I can-do-about-it' look on his face.
I don't think the bloke has long to go as he is now in and out of hospital and can't drink more than a can or two. Sad.
Example 2:
Another recent addition in the soi, a fellow from a near to middle East country has recently upgraded to a run-down motosai from the bicycle he had. Always in shorts and t-shirt, and was rumoured to have been in the nick for being raving drunk on lao khao in the main soi and clad in only his underpants. I recently spotted him and his companion fishing for those little fishes that come out in the flood waters further down the soi..
This guy I avoid.
To be fair, I used to get dirty looks from one particular drinks vendor; she would purposely look the other way if I wanted to order anything. My wife got the same treatment. Until one day when my friend's daughter waied me while I was having a meal there. Apparently they were schoolmates, and the drinks vendor's attitude changed overnight.
I'm generally known in the neighbourhood and get a couple of waves (always returned) whenever I drive by.
Being civic-conscious
I took the public bus to work today. The security guard at the apartment block opposite my office spotted me walking in; he was bringing his daughter to school, waied me and indicated to his daughter to do the same. We exchanged plesantries and went our merry ways..
One day at a time...
A lot depends on the locals' perception of us. And my perception of the other parties.
Example 1:
In my soi in Bangkok,there is a Swiss guy who has been here for about two years or so, late fifties, and living off a generous medical stipend from his country. He was generally seen at the local provision shop from early morning looking quite dishevelled and surrounded by cans of Chang.
I have on occasion had a sit-down with him (as I am friendly with the shopkeeper) but his English isn't good. He has a live-in female companion, and a now one-year-old - not his by his own admission as he's been doctored. The companion disappears for days on end with the kid, which is when he drinks himself silly, and she'll only come back when she needs the money. He won't - maybe can't - let go.
The shopkeeper just shrugs with a 'nothing-you-or-I can-do-about-it' look on his face.
I don't think the bloke has long to go as he is now in and out of hospital and can't drink more than a can or two. Sad.
Example 2:
Another recent addition in the soi, a fellow from a near to middle East country has recently upgraded to a run-down motosai from the bicycle he had. Always in shorts and t-shirt, and was rumoured to have been in the nick for being raving drunk on lao khao in the main soi and clad in only his underpants. I recently spotted him and his companion fishing for those little fishes that come out in the flood waters further down the soi..
This guy I avoid.
To be fair, I used to get dirty looks from one particular drinks vendor; she would purposely look the other way if I wanted to order anything. My wife got the same treatment. Until one day when my friend's daughter waied me while I was having a meal there. Apparently they were schoolmates, and the drinks vendor's attitude changed overnight.
I'm generally known in the neighbourhood and get a couple of waves (always returned) whenever I drive by.
Being civic-conscious
I took the public bus to work today. The security guard at the apartment block opposite my office spotted me walking in; he was bringing his daughter to school, waied me and indicated to his daughter to do the same. We exchanged plesantries and went our merry ways..One day at a time...
วินเชนท์
Look at the question "where do we fit in"? The important part of the question is the word "we". Swap the word "we". for "Ferangs" in which case there are too many types of Ferangs to answer the question collectively. I don't think Thais think all Ferangs are the same. There are tourist Ferangs, Ferangs in business, retired Ferangs who contribute and Ferangs who live here contributing zilch. In my opinion Ferangs who hang around bars, getting drunk and going with prostitutes are less respected than Ferang businessmen who wear smart clothes and hang around with Thai businessmen. School teachers are more respected than bar owners, rich Ferangs are more respected than poor Ferangs. Ferangs who speak Thai are more respected than Ferangs who don't. Older Ferang men with same age Ferang wifes are more respected than Single Ferang men with young Thai girlfriends. Polite Ferangs who are mild mannered are more respected than rude loud mouthed Ferangs and if you think all that is obvious, why the big debate?
How Ferangs are treated regarding the other stuff such as (non) voting rights, visa rules, work permit rules, setting up business's and buying property is a different kettle of fish. In these cases most Ferangs are treated the same and the laws are set up to protect Thai nationals therefore some Ferangs feel they are unfairly treated. I have sympathies for the long term Ferang residents who contribute to Thai society but do not get the opportunities to integrate. Given their status of (non) voting rights, I can not see Thai politicians being politically motivated to address this - but it doesn't mean they are not respected by Thais so shouldn't get confused with the real reasons why a Thai will respect a Ferang or not.
How Ferangs are treated regarding the other stuff such as (non) voting rights, visa rules, work permit rules, setting up business's and buying property is a different kettle of fish. In these cases most Ferangs are treated the same and the laws are set up to protect Thai nationals therefore some Ferangs feel they are unfairly treated. I have sympathies for the long term Ferang residents who contribute to Thai society but do not get the opportunities to integrate. Given their status of (non) voting rights, I can not see Thai politicians being politically motivated to address this - but it doesn't mean they are not respected by Thais so shouldn't get confused with the real reasons why a Thai will respect a Ferang or not.
Thanks Jockey, that has helped me look at the question differently, and puts some of the earlier responses (which I originally thought were very harsh, and out of character) in to perspective.
I had been looking at the question with tunnel vision.
I had been looking at the question with tunnel vision.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd 
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
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frankbangkok
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 7:48 am
- Location: Khao Takiup
How bad are we?
How bad are we if these people don't respect us?
Thai children's IQ average low
The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of Thai children, somewhere between 87 and 88 points, remains in the "low average" category when ranked internationally, Vice Minister for Education Watchara Phanchet said on Wednesday.
He said this at a seminar on how to make children smart, and cited a survey conducted in 2002 as the source of his information.
"We have to develop children both intellectually and physically because they are our country's future," Watchara said.
He was speaking to more than 800 educators, health professionals, parents and representatives of a network for disadvantaged children at the seminar held by the Mental Health Department's Rajanukul Institute.
The 2002 survey found that only 80 per cent of children under five years old had normal visual, muscular and touchperception development, he said. It also found that the average IQ of children between six and 12 was 87 points.
The average IQ for children between 13 and 18 was 88 IQ points, the study found.
In a 2001 survey, children from six to 12 were found to have low levels of patience, discipline, concentration and selfreliance, while those between 13 and 18 had insufficient creativity, analytical ability, conscience, problemsolving skills and emotional control.
Watchara said these problems were the result of parents leaving teachers in charge of their children's development. Teachers are not trained to maximise children's potential at the right age, he said.
"We plan to raise Thai children's [average] IQ to at least 100 by 2008," he said.
Mental Health Department chief ML Somchai Chakraphan said those with IQs in the 70 to 79 point range were in a borderline group as an IQ below 70 points signalled mental disability.
In a bid to boost children's IQ, Somchai said his department last year launched a fiveyear intellectual development plan for children in 20 provinces. "We have passed on useful knowhow to nursery and kindergarten teachers," he said.
Somchai said mothers could boost their children's IQ by eating nutritious food during pregnancy and stimulating their children's development at the right age.
"Some parents tend to carry their babies in their arms all the time out of concerns that their babies might fall and hurt themselves. That's not right. If it's time for your babies to start crawling or running, let them do so because it encourages their development," he said.
The Nation
After yesterday’s interview with Lee Kuan Hew comes another example of Asia’s determination to enter the developed world. Bangkok’s The Nation reports on Thailand’s effort to get to the bottom of its low IQ (Govt to Map Country’s Intelligence):
“A project using demographic maps to identify areas of iodine-deficiency and low intelligence are being drawn on the belief there is a connection between the two. In all, the Department of Health and the Department of Mental Health will draw three maps in an effort to combat low intelligence, after it a study found the average IQ level among many youths was lower than 80.
Two of the maps will focus on iodine deficiency: one depicting the average level of iodine in pregnant women and another showing the percentage of people who have access to iodised salt in each area.
A third map will focus on the average IQ level among children in every province.â€
Thai children's IQ average low
The average intelligence quotient (IQ) of Thai children, somewhere between 87 and 88 points, remains in the "low average" category when ranked internationally, Vice Minister for Education Watchara Phanchet said on Wednesday.
He said this at a seminar on how to make children smart, and cited a survey conducted in 2002 as the source of his information.
"We have to develop children both intellectually and physically because they are our country's future," Watchara said.
He was speaking to more than 800 educators, health professionals, parents and representatives of a network for disadvantaged children at the seminar held by the Mental Health Department's Rajanukul Institute.
The 2002 survey found that only 80 per cent of children under five years old had normal visual, muscular and touchperception development, he said. It also found that the average IQ of children between six and 12 was 87 points.
The average IQ for children between 13 and 18 was 88 IQ points, the study found.
In a 2001 survey, children from six to 12 were found to have low levels of patience, discipline, concentration and selfreliance, while those between 13 and 18 had insufficient creativity, analytical ability, conscience, problemsolving skills and emotional control.
Watchara said these problems were the result of parents leaving teachers in charge of their children's development. Teachers are not trained to maximise children's potential at the right age, he said.
"We plan to raise Thai children's [average] IQ to at least 100 by 2008," he said.
Mental Health Department chief ML Somchai Chakraphan said those with IQs in the 70 to 79 point range were in a borderline group as an IQ below 70 points signalled mental disability.
In a bid to boost children's IQ, Somchai said his department last year launched a fiveyear intellectual development plan for children in 20 provinces. "We have passed on useful knowhow to nursery and kindergarten teachers," he said.
Somchai said mothers could boost their children's IQ by eating nutritious food during pregnancy and stimulating their children's development at the right age.
"Some parents tend to carry their babies in their arms all the time out of concerns that their babies might fall and hurt themselves. That's not right. If it's time for your babies to start crawling or running, let them do so because it encourages their development," he said.
The Nation
After yesterday’s interview with Lee Kuan Hew comes another example of Asia’s determination to enter the developed world. Bangkok’s The Nation reports on Thailand’s effort to get to the bottom of its low IQ (Govt to Map Country’s Intelligence):
“A project using demographic maps to identify areas of iodine-deficiency and low intelligence are being drawn on the belief there is a connection between the two. In all, the Department of Health and the Department of Mental Health will draw three maps in an effort to combat low intelligence, after it a study found the average IQ level among many youths was lower than 80.
Two of the maps will focus on iodine deficiency: one depicting the average level of iodine in pregnant women and another showing the percentage of people who have access to iodised salt in each area.
A third map will focus on the average IQ level among children in every province.â€
Look at the means which a man employs, consider his motives, observe his pleasures. A man simply cannot conceal himself!
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frankbangkok
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 7:48 am
- Location: Khao Takiup
Thread
Richard, if you consider quoting from The Nation Newspaper and the Royal Thai Ministry of Education "out of control", then we will have to agree to disagree.
The only thing I see here that is out of control is the denigration of the 232nd anniversary of the founding of the United States of America.
The only thing I see here that is out of control is the denigration of the 232nd anniversary of the founding of the United States of America.
Last edited by frankbangkok on Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Look at the means which a man employs, consider his motives, observe his pleasures. A man simply cannot conceal himself!
Jockey said:
Of course all of our neighbours bring us fruit and food. Of course the Thai guys on the motorbike pull over to help you out with your flat tire and refuse a tip. That is not the point.
The vast majority of the Thais in Hua Hin are financially dependent on farang tourists and residents so they better be friendly to them. And with regard to the Isaan village. Why not make friends with the farang because you never know when you are going to need him.
And it has nothing to do with (genuine or not??) shows of respect either. Question on the side: How do you know that the Thai who smiles all the time and greets you with a deep wai respects you? During my work in Thailand I saw many Thai employees crawl and wai their superiors although they hated or sometimes even really disgusted him or her.
Although Buksida's reply was a bit too harsh maybe but I can see what he means. I had discussions about this before and I noticed that the people who agree are without exception people who are here a long time, speak good Thai, work here and as a result of that they encounter different Thais than the restaurant waitresses, the hotel staff, the shop keeper and the tuktuk driver. And the Thais who do not need The Farang, the for generations wealthy ones, the ones in power, the decision makers, they place us where Buksida described.
And that is probably because WE are a threat to them. They do not want to see the enormous gap between rich and poor jeopardized by some foreigners. Because the Thais accept the karma bullshit and take corruption for granted. The man in the street is poorly educated and the happy few like that. Lack of education and control of the media will keep the Thais in their place but what about the farangs? Making life as difficult as possible for them through visa and work permit regulations maybe?
Anyway, I am still happily living and working in Thailand with no intention to leave because everyday life is not affected by this Thai point of view. And for that reason most farangs will not even be aware of it. So be happy with your neigbours and with all the smiles around you. I am.
And Big Boy replied:Look at the question "where do we fit in"? The important part of the question is the word "we". Swap the word "we". for "Ferangs" in which case there are too many types of Ferangs to answer the question collectively.
I think that is wrong. Of course every individual farang is different ranging from half naked drunks running around in Pattaya to respected surgeons and university professors in Bangkok. The problem is - if it really IS a problem in the first place - that many Thais generalize The Farang. So the question could be rephrased from a Thai viewpoint "Where do THEY fit in?" Well at the beginning Khun Buksida poetically explained approximately where that is. So Big Boy it is not tunnel vision. It is quite the opposite: trying to see the big picture here.Thanks Jockey, that has helped me look at the question differently, and puts some of the earlier responses (which I originally thought were very harsh, and out of character) in to perspective.
I had been looking at the question with tunnel vision.
Of course all of our neighbours bring us fruit and food. Of course the Thai guys on the motorbike pull over to help you out with your flat tire and refuse a tip. That is not the point.
The vast majority of the Thais in Hua Hin are financially dependent on farang tourists and residents so they better be friendly to them. And with regard to the Isaan village. Why not make friends with the farang because you never know when you are going to need him.
And it has nothing to do with (genuine or not??) shows of respect either. Question on the side: How do you know that the Thai who smiles all the time and greets you with a deep wai respects you? During my work in Thailand I saw many Thai employees crawl and wai their superiors although they hated or sometimes even really disgusted him or her.
Although Buksida's reply was a bit too harsh maybe but I can see what he means. I had discussions about this before and I noticed that the people who agree are without exception people who are here a long time, speak good Thai, work here and as a result of that they encounter different Thais than the restaurant waitresses, the hotel staff, the shop keeper and the tuktuk driver. And the Thais who do not need The Farang, the for generations wealthy ones, the ones in power, the decision makers, they place us where Buksida described.
And that is probably because WE are a threat to them. They do not want to see the enormous gap between rich and poor jeopardized by some foreigners. Because the Thais accept the karma bullshit and take corruption for granted. The man in the street is poorly educated and the happy few like that. Lack of education and control of the media will keep the Thais in their place but what about the farangs? Making life as difficult as possible for them through visa and work permit regulations maybe?
Anyway, I am still happily living and working in Thailand with no intention to leave because everyday life is not affected by this Thai point of view. And for that reason most farangs will not even be aware of it. So be happy with your neigbours and with all the smiles around you. I am.
We are all living in 'the good old days' of the future.
Sorry Roel,
When you say
An example, when being visited in our holiday home by one of our Thai friends in May, the conversation moved to the fact I was going to have 10 shirts tailor made. Our friend told my wife to buy the material, and she would make them free of charge.
Another example, my wife wanted her hair permed. Another friend told her to visit her shop the next day, and did the job free of charge. OK, Thai to Thai, but they know my wife is married to me.
Final example, my son did not travel with us this year. We were inundated with small gifts to take back to the UK for him from several of his friends ranging from guitar plectrums to a wallet to Buddha images to bring him luck.
OK, as I said in my original posting, I know a lot of this is down to my wife's relationship with the Thai community. However the shirts were perfect, and just think how much I could have been charged in a Tailor's shop. Its not the potential cost saving that impresses me most, it is the amount of time that lady spent doing something for me.
I think that you must, by now, realise that I am talking a lot more than the occasional wai, and smile. I am talking about integration and fitting in with your own clique of friends. Whether or not you choose to befriend the natives is personal choice.
Going back to the OP, I still believe that I do command a position in this hierarchy (just not sure where I sit in the triangle). And yes, I accept that Thais outside of that triangle are doing it for what they can get, not because they respect me - for those Thais, do you think I really care? Its no different to walking in to a restaurant in the UK, and the waiting staff being pleasant - they don't respect me either.
When you say
I can't disagree with the first part of the quote. However, it would be nice if you could expand on the second part. I know my wife and I (also includes my son) have quite a few true Thai friends in Hua Hin.The vast majority of the Thais in Hua Hin are financially dependent on farang tourists and residents so they better be friendly to them.
An example, when being visited in our holiday home by one of our Thai friends in May, the conversation moved to the fact I was going to have 10 shirts tailor made. Our friend told my wife to buy the material, and she would make them free of charge.
Another example, my wife wanted her hair permed. Another friend told her to visit her shop the next day, and did the job free of charge. OK, Thai to Thai, but they know my wife is married to me.
Final example, my son did not travel with us this year. We were inundated with small gifts to take back to the UK for him from several of his friends ranging from guitar plectrums to a wallet to Buddha images to bring him luck.
OK, as I said in my original posting, I know a lot of this is down to my wife's relationship with the Thai community. However the shirts were perfect, and just think how much I could have been charged in a Tailor's shop. Its not the potential cost saving that impresses me most, it is the amount of time that lady spent doing something for me.
I think that you must, by now, realise that I am talking a lot more than the occasional wai, and smile. I am talking about integration and fitting in with your own clique of friends. Whether or not you choose to befriend the natives is personal choice.
Going back to the OP, I still believe that I do command a position in this hierarchy (just not sure where I sit in the triangle). And yes, I accept that Thais outside of that triangle are doing it for what they can get, not because they respect me - for those Thais, do you think I really care? Its no different to walking in to a restaurant in the UK, and the waiting staff being pleasant - they don't respect me either.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Well if you run a business that mainly depends on tourists and foreign residents then I think it is a good idea to be friendly with them so that they come back and/or recommend you to others?
What I am trying to say is that I understand what Buksida means from personal experience. The big picture of how WE fit in the Thai hierarchy has nothing to do with the numerous personal experiences and examples of non-greedy Thai family, friendly neigbours, all the Thai good samaritans out there and also not with your true Thai friends.
The question was: where do we fit in? And I understood it as "where do Thais place us (farangs) in their hierarchical system?"
Not: Do you think Thais genuinely respect you?
Or: Do you have any TRUE Thai friends?
Completely different questions although most posters reply to these not asked questions. Interesting subject too. But another subject.
What I am trying to say is that I understand what Buksida means from personal experience. The big picture of how WE fit in the Thai hierarchy has nothing to do with the numerous personal experiences and examples of non-greedy Thai family, friendly neigbours, all the Thai good samaritans out there and also not with your true Thai friends.
The question was: where do we fit in? And I understood it as "where do Thais place us (farangs) in their hierarchical system?"
Not: Do you think Thais genuinely respect you?
Or: Do you have any TRUE Thai friends?
Completely different questions although most posters reply to these not asked questions. Interesting subject too. But another subject.
We are all living in 'the good old days' of the future.
It's very interesting to read these posts and many have valid points.
Roel has a point and so does Big Boy, but I think Jockey was getting close to 'hitting the nail on the head', depends on which type of farang you are, we are not all the same, and if we went home, then we would all be in drastically different situations.
There are many regional variations at play here, hard to compare the countryside to the beach places, as I'm sure there are variables in the Thai people's perceptions based on where they are, or who they have met in the past, where they have moved to, to pursue their ambitions and for what reason, or what their expectations are, or whether to accept you as a member of the community that you appear to be trying to intergrate in and therefore give you credit for it as many others may not try.
It's good that so many people have expressed their opinions as that is what a forum is all about. I'm sure many have learned something here.
Maybe, just maybe it depends on what 'type' of Thai person you meet.
I'm sure many of us are not too bothered about 'fitting' in to the triangle, as described earlier, but I sometimes wonder what they think or how they view us as there is such a multitude of different sections of farangs here.
Outstanding everyone!
Roel has a point and so does Big Boy, but I think Jockey was getting close to 'hitting the nail on the head', depends on which type of farang you are, we are not all the same, and if we went home, then we would all be in drastically different situations.
There are many regional variations at play here, hard to compare the countryside to the beach places, as I'm sure there are variables in the Thai people's perceptions based on where they are, or who they have met in the past, where they have moved to, to pursue their ambitions and for what reason, or what their expectations are, or whether to accept you as a member of the community that you appear to be trying to intergrate in and therefore give you credit for it as many others may not try.
It's good that so many people have expressed their opinions as that is what a forum is all about. I'm sure many have learned something here.
Maybe, just maybe it depends on what 'type' of Thai person you meet.
I'm sure many of us are not too bothered about 'fitting' in to the triangle, as described earlier, but I sometimes wonder what they think or how they view us as there is such a multitude of different sections of farangs here.
Outstanding everyone!
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
Maybe you are right regarding my understanding of the OP. However, I couldn't give a toss where I sit in the overall scheme of things whether its in Thailand or the UK. Most of those judging me in either place mean absolutely nothing to me.
What matters to me is where I fit in the grand scheme of things with friends and relatives.
What matters to me is where I fit in the grand scheme of things with friends and relatives.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED