Tax residency in Thailand and taxing overseas income

[sateeb]

/\ The ones I looked at were about 80 to 90 quid

[caller]

/\ The ones I looked at were about 80 to 90 quid

So looking at over 150 quid for a couple of docs and postage. I wonder if I could claim that back from my UK tax!

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else has, or is planning to go down the same route as BB.

I'm still not really getting the need for the calculations involved, implying if you haven't payed enough at source, you would still have to pay up here. But maybe I don't understand the DTA?

[Big Boy]

The cost this year was a horrendous £231, but a lot of that was due to time constraints (31 March) and trying to meet timescales. Here is the breakdown:

Cost.png (48.45 KiB) Viewed 11245 times

NB: (1)They advised me to make the DHL upgrade because they knew it was urgent.
(2) I paid for the scan and e-mail service to prevent delays getting my document to them

Therefore, I could have knocked £47 off the cost.

Please, somebody else take their P60. I'm sure the more they see, the more used to them they will get. I hope this validation thing dies a natural death.

The calculation came into it because I brought so much money to Thailand last year. When looking at my income on my bank statement, I explained there were 2 receipts totalling >฿500K to pay for my wife's operation, and 1 receipt for about ฿100K for major car work. Both receipts were accepted as coming from savings, so not put into the equation - no evidence required.

[caller]

Thanks for the explanation re: the calculation - but I still don't get it!

As far as I can see, all they need is evidence you are taxed at source in the UK.

I would take my P60 and annual tax summary. I would use the former and the 2nd is just in case.

[Big Boy]

Unfortunately, as ex-Civil Servants (or very similar), we are probably very straightforward, but even we aren't that easy e.g. our old age pensions are considered taxable in Thailand. In Thailand's eyes, we all have an element of income that might be taxable if we bring it to Thailand, so they will check. Normally, I can just live on my Civil Service Pension, and my OAP is little more than pin money, that just sits in my UK bank, and becomes savings.

Whilst last year I brought more than my Civil Service Pension to Thailand, I was allowed to declare just over 600,000฿ as having come from savings. A lesson I have learned is that while the nice lady is very fair, in subsequent years, I probably need to take some evidence to prove large expenses - I doubt it'll stay that easy in future years.

I'd love for more Brits to throw P60/annual tax summary at the Tax Office. They may play the same hard ball they initially played with me, but the more times they hit the same stalemate, the more chance their attitude may soften.

[404cameljockey]

My only question about the Thai system (so far) is whether your UK tax-free allowance of around GBP 12,000 is taxable by TRD if brought into Thailand. You haven't paid tax on it in the UK. Does the Double Taxation Agreement cover this?

[Dannie Boy]

Your P60 will state total earnings and the amount of tax paid. Going by what BB has said, the UK tax is likely to be greater than the Thai tax liability even if you brought it all into Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Big Boy]

My only question about the Thai system (so far) is whether your UK tax-free allowance of around GBP 12,000 is taxable by TRD if brought into Thailand. You haven't paid tax on it in the UK. Does the Double Taxation Agreement cover this?

Thailand gives allowances before taxation as well. These are listed on page 38 of this thread (kwajdiver » Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:54 am). So whilst they know nothing about the intracies of the UK tax system, the Thai allowances are quite generous.

[404cameljockey]

My only question about the Thai system (so far) is whether your UK tax-free allowance of around GBP 12,000 is taxable by TRD if brought into Thailand. You haven't paid tax on it in the UK. Does the Double Taxation Agreement cover this?

Thailand gives allowances before taxation as well. These are listed on page 38 of this thread (kwajdiver » Wed Feb 19, 2025 10:54 am). So whilst they know nothing about the intracies of the UK tax system, the Thai allowances are quite generous.

Thanks BB, I think you are inferring that pension income below the tax threshold in the UK must still be declared as income if brought into Thailand and is fully taxable, subject only to the tax allowances here. Seems (to me anyway) to make a mockery of the agreement. If you agree to be taxed in the UK and it's not taxable in the UK it shouldn't be taxable in Thailand, the agreement should override normal Thai tax allowances! I'm probably wrong, I know.

Your board preference options must be different to mine as I can't find the post you mention although I did go to the time/date you stated (this thread is huge now), but I did find this posted long ago from another member:

+++
As far as I know the rules about state pension (and any Civil Service pensions) are that tax must be paid in the country of origin and they are tax free in any other country having an agreement not to double tax (UK, Europe, Thailand, etc.). As far as Thai tax is concerned the current rates for taxable income are:
0 - 150,000 Baht (0%)
150,000 - 300,000 Baht (5%)
300,000 - 500,000 Baht (10%)
500,000 - 750,000 Baht (15%)
750,000 - 1,000,000 Baht (20%)
1,000,000 - 2,000,000 Baht (25%)
2,000,000 - 5,000,000 (30%)
Over 5,000,000 (35%)

There are lots of things that can be deducted to calculate taxable income. A few examples are: everybody gets a deduction of 100,000 baht, marriage 100,000 Baht, over 65 100,000, various types of insurance - cost price, support for wife's parents 50,000 - 100,000, etc., etc.
+++

[404cameljockey]

Your P60 will state total earnings and the amount of tax paid. Going by what BB has said, the UK tax is likely to be greater than the Thai tax liability even if you brought it all into Thailand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, I know at some point I will need to file a UK tax return to clarify all of this, even though I was told years ago by HMRC I didn't need to.

The UK tax free allowance of GBP 12,570 equates to well over half a million Baht, which is far more than any allowances I could get in Thailand. I suppose the only difference would be the tax rate on the percentage difference between the allowances.

Seems almost all of us will be involved in expense to comply with the regulations, whether embassy costs or accountant costs, or both. That will be a big deal for me, year on year. I have decided to miss the tax filing date and see what happens later this year.

Also I don't understand how anyone can yet get a P60 covering the whole of 2024 income when UK tax filing isn't until April 2025? I'm a bit rusty on all of this I know, am I wrong?

[Big Boy]

You are right about the P60, but they were happy to accept that as evidence.

[404cameljockey]

You are right about the P60, but they were happy to accept that as evidence.

Haha, OK anyway, good job, and your posts no doubt very helpful to all members!

[caller]

The UK tax free allowance of GBP 12,570 equates to well over half a million Baht, which is far more than any allowances I could get in Thailand. I suppose the only difference would be the tax rate on the percentage difference between the allowances.

To be honest, I'm not really understanding a lot of this, and I mean the whole caboodle, not just my quote above. I too wondered about the tax free allowance and whether the Thais could try to claim from that that, but in my opinion, they can't, as it has already been taken into account by UK tax authorities when determining the amount of tax we are required to pay.

I understand in BB's case, that the Hua Hin tax office wanted to be satisfied his savings income wasn't undeclared funds from some sort of tax avoidance attempt. But I think that's risible based on the fact they simply accepted his word without proof being required. What else can a small district office realistically do?

[Big Boy]

To try to simplify, you need to forget the UK tax system. Thailand can't be expected to know the tax sysyem of all treaty countries, and neither should they.

We are then talking the Thai tax system. They will look at your income in Thailand, deduct any allowances, and then present you with a number, which is how much tax is due in Thailand.

It is only then that your UK tax paid is brought into it. If the amount of tax paid in the UK exceeds what is due in Thailand, you have nothing to pay. If the amount of tax is less than what is due in Thailand, you pay the difference.

The system is as simple as that.

[caller]

We are then talking the Thai tax system. They will look at your income in Thailand, deduct any allowances, and then present you with a number, which is how much tax is due in Thailand.

It is only then that your UK tax paid is brought into it. If the amount of tax paid in the UK exceeds what is due in Thailand, you have nothing to pay. If the amount of tax is less than what is due in Thailand, you pay the difference.

But is that what is stated in the DTA?