Tax residency in Thailand and taxing overseas income

[Dannie Boy]

Tax is obviously a minefield so it’s easy to be wrong but my understanding (see extract below from HMRC) is that pensions earned through employment in the UK are considered taxable by the UK’s HMRC.

Tax when you live abroad

You may be taxed on your pension by the country where you’re resident and by the UK.

You’ll pay UK tax on your pension if either:

you receive your pension from a UK provider
you’re classed as a UK resident for tax purposes
The amount you pay depends on your income. You need to tell HMRC if you move abroad.

You may not have to pay twice if the country you’re resident in has a ‘double-taxation agreement’ with the UK. Your country’s tax treaty will tell you where to pay tax.

[lomuamart]

Interesting. I must admit that my searches so far have been skewed towards my rental income.

The UK's great isn't it? They want their tax but won't let me invest in ISAs or bonds because I'm non resident. They'll close my bank account soon.

If and when I sell my property, I'll get my money out of the UK asap. Oh, I forgot. By that stage, I won't be allowed to have a bank account there any more.

Happy Xmas the UK and Barclays Bank. Welcome Thailand?

[Jose]

I have received letters to my dads house in the UK from Halifax and also Hargreaves Lansdown asking for tin number and tax residence info.

I have a Thai tax id from 2019 , but doubt it is still valid

[PET]

Tax is obviously a minefield so it’s easy to be wrong but my understanding (see extract below from HMRC) is that pensions earned through employment in the UK are considered taxable by the UK’s HMRC.

Tax when you live abroad

You may be taxed on your pension by the country where you’re resident and by the UK.

You’ll pay UK tax on your pension if either:

you receive your pension from a UK provider
you’re classed as a UK resident for tax purposes
The amount you pay depends on your income. You need to tell HMRC if you move abroad.

You may not have to pay twice if the country you’re resident in has a ‘double-taxation agreement’ with the UK. Your country’s tax treaty will tell you where to pay tax.

When I moved to Thailand on 2007 I had a private pension fund and a State Pension. I was able to convert my private pension to a Qualifying
Recognised Overseas Pension Scheme. My accountants called it a QROPS. Mine is based in Gibraltar and I pay 12% on any withdrawals made as against it being added to my UK pension and and charged as UK earnings.With the UK double taxation agreement I do not expect to pay any Thai Tax

[buksida]

I have received letters to my dads house in the UK from Halifax and also Hargreaves Lansdown asking for tin number and tax residence info.

I have a Thai tax id from 2019 , but doubt it is still valid

Also got the tax forms from Barclays, told them I wasn't tax resident in the UK and there was an option not to provide the TIN. No doubt they'll want to close my account now as I don't live in the UK.

Big Brother banks are getting their act together, may be time to start stashing cash under the mattress again!

[Don East Stand]

My wife (UK) and I went into Kasikorn Bank on Petchkasem Road on Thursday 19th December to "sort out" the email they had sent us.

We handed over our passports and bankbooks and showed them the email.

They were very keen for us to go away and submit it by email, however I was more determined that they "sort" it for us!

Eventually ...... they did!

On checking the form (after we were back home) that they filled out on our behalf, I noticed on the second page they have written, "TIN IS NOT REQUIRED"

Does this mean I won't be required to pay any tax in Thailand?

[Dannie Boy]

You were dealing with the bank, not the taxman!!


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[lomuamart]

To buks and DES,

I've had exactly the same experiences lately, as reported.

For sure, my UK Barclays accounts will be closed in due course although I've not received the form yet as my father's printer/scanner is kaput and it's in the post. I really don't know what to do. I've thought about Barclays International but it's 40 GBP a month if your balance falls below 100K GBP for four months running and the blurb seems to reads to me that you need to 100K to start off with - I'm not sure about that yet.

So, bring my money over to Thailand? Well, I've never made an international transfer from Kbank to anywhere and I will have to do so to manage my property in the UK. Can I do so on internet banking? How long does it take? How much does it cost?

And before someone says what does this have to do with the thread, it has all to do with it and my residency in Thailand and how I'm and all of us being treated back in our home countries.

And yes, the "go home and submit those Kbank residency forms by email". No, do it here. It took me two minutes to fill the things in. But, as the employee wasn't to happy with me, I left quickly before I said something that might dig myself in deeper and forgot to ask for a copy. Maybe the original has been binned?

I give up.

[Dannie Boy]

To buks and DES,

I've had exactly the same experiences lately, as reported.

For sure, my UK Barclays accounts will be closed in due course although I've not received the form yet as my father's printer/scanner is kaput and it's in the post. I really don't know what to do. I've thought about Barclays International but it's 40 GBP a month if your balance falls below 100K GBP for four months running and the blurb seems to reads to me that you need to 100K to start off with - I'm not sure about that yet.

So, bring my money over to Thailand? Well, I've never made an international transfer from Kbank to anywhere and I will have to do so to manage my property in the UK. Can I do so on internet banking? How long does it take? How much does it cost?

And before someone says what does this have to do with the thread, it has all to do with it and my residency in Thailand and how I'm and all of us being treated back in our home countries.

And yes, the "go home and submit those Kbank residency forms by email". No, do it here. It took me two minutes to fill the things in. But, as the employee wasn't to happy with me, I left quickly before I said something that might dig myself in deeper and forgot to ask for a copy. Maybe the original has been binned?

I give up.

Regarding a bank account in the UK, you could try opening an account with Starling as you have a UK property - I managed to open an account with them about 2 years ago and find it great for paying money in the UK. I still have a HSBC account and so far there’s been no indication from them about closing it!!


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[404cameljockey]

Yes, HSBC are still fine with expats, they are a major international bank of course (although I'm frustrated by their only offering commercial services in Thailand, not retail). Other banks including Barclays and Natwest have been closing expat accounts for years now, but this Thai tax thing will alert banks to more. HSBC also have HSBC International in the Channel Islands which counts as UK for tax purposes.

Does Starling count as an actual 'UK bank' as they don't have branches? I don't know, I've sort of viewed them in the same vein as Mondo. I have accounts with both but don't use them.

This is on topic as it's important to know whether Thai Immigration see inward remittances from them as coming from a UK bank, and therefore how the Thai tax authority are likely to view them. I guess could help in part to establish domicile for the dual tax treaty, in conjunction with your National Insurance (TIN) number.

I'm still doing nothing about this.

Did anyone go to the Hua Hin Area Revenue Branch Office in Soi 88 and speak to them?

[Dannie Boy]

Does Starling count as an actual 'UK bank' as they don't have branches? I don't know, I've sort of viewed them in the same vein as Mondo.

Starling are definitely a UK Bank, but offering only digital banking with no branches, but for most people that’s all they need.

https://www.starlingbank.com/about/

Mods might want to move these comments to a more specific banking thread?

[404cameljockey]

Does Starling count as an actual 'UK bank' as they don't have branches? I don't know, I've sort of viewed them in the same vein as Mondo.

Starling are definitely a UK Bank, but offering only digital banking with no branches, but for most people that’s all they need.

https://www.starlingbank.com/about/

Mods might want to move these comments to a more specific banking thread?

No. That's why I mentioned specifically that it could be relevant to tax, even if not actually proof positive where your income is generated. The Thai tax authority will probably use a number of factors to determine this.

[caller]

I just had a quick look at Starling and you have to be a UK resident, no good if already living in Thailand, they also don't support Thai phone numbers. I suppose you can lie?

[Dannie Boy]

I just had a quick look at Starling and you have to be a UK resident, no good if already living in Thailand, they also don't support Thai phone numbers. I suppose you can lie?

Lomu said he has a UK residence so he can quote that - he may also have a UK phone number - I have both and was able to open an account with them.


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[Stevepiraq1]

Yes, HSBC are still fine with expats, they are a major international bank of course (although I'm frustrated by their only offering commercial services in Thailand, not retail). Other banks including Barclays and Natwest have been closing expat accounts for years now, but this Thai tax thing will alert banks to more. HSBC also have HSBC International in the Channel Islands which counts as UK for tax purposes.

Does Starling count as an actual 'UK bank' as they don't have branches? I don't know, I've sort of viewed them in the same vein as Mondo. I have accounts with both but don't use them.

This is on topic as it's important to know whether Thai Immigration see inward remittances from them as coming from a UK bank, and therefore how the Thai tax authority are likely to view them. I guess could help in part to establish domicile for the dual tax treaty, in conjunction with your National Insurance (TIN) number.

I'm still doing nothing about this.

Did anyone go to the Hua Hin Area Revenue Branch Office in Soi 88 and speak to them?

I think you will find that Channel Islands as well as IOM do not count for UK tax and you are not taxed on them by HRMC.
Immigration are not involved in any of this and do not receive any financial information from the Thai Revenue Department, I have inquired about this.

I have been to the revenue office and they said there is no further information than is posted on the RD web site.

In one of my previous posts I stated the RD are providing no further updates as it is all clear on their web site. This was stated at a public presentation in Bangkok.

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upl ... AX2024.pdf