Letters 'kh' and 'ng' in Thai, asking for water, etc.

[404cameljockey]

For those among us who like to learn to speak a language politely (and to be understood), let's revitalise this thread. I have no Thai speakers close to me that I see often, and so it's not so easy without delving into the internet or getting weird with bar staff, my local 7-Eleven staff or housing resort manager!

I can't write Thai (67 years old; what goes in comes straight out again) and so explanations that write words in Thai are a little above my station.

I have real trouble with saying 'ngān' (work) and other 'ng' words, particularly snake (that one could be important one day, yes?). I don't think it can be taught to me! I can listen but not reproduce, and it frustrates me.

On the other hand I get frustrated when hearing neighbours who have visited Hua Hin for weeks at a time for many years saying a hard letter 'k' when saying 'khop khun khap'. They are trying to be polite obviously, but haven't taken the time or effort to learn the correct sound, the aspirated 'k'. Or maybe they just can't, but that one isn't so hard to learn with repetition. Just as tongue use in 'r' (like in French) can be easily learned to say 'aroy', 'krab' etc.. Incidentally I only found out last week that a long rolling 'r' saying the usual 'aroy maak' (very tasty) bring smiles and laughs when eating out, and maybe makes a new friend.

I like easy phrases rather than hard ones, so In a restaurant I may say in my broken and over-polite Thai 'khun khap, nam nam khap' (sir, bring me water please): steady tone 'nam' bring, rising tone 'nam' water. I am usually understood despite my failings. I also like that fact that 'nam' written is 'na', just to trip me up, right ...? If you say just 'nam' in a 7-Eleven, as well as your sounding rude or supercilious they may just hear 'bring' and stand waiting for you to finish your request.

All I can say is 'I'm trying.

[Ratsima]

I've been trying since the mid 90s and it's all been one colossal failure; perhaps one of the biggest disappointments of my life. Shame on me.

As for the "ng" sound. It is hard for those of us whose native language does not include an initial ng sound. When I was in Peace Corps training over 50 years ago the language (Chuukese) instructor taught us to say that sound by having us repeat multiple times after him the word "Singapore". Once we were in the rhythm of it, he reduced the repetition to "ngapore"; over and over and over again. Next step was to remove the "pore" so we were just repeating the desired initial consonant: nga, nga, nga...

Sounds silly, but it worked and I've never since had trouble with words beginning with ง (ng).

Note that I never learned Chuukese or Thai or any other language that I've tried; including Morse Code, Spanish, Chamorro and Japanese. My brain just doesn't process sounds very well. I can read Thai, though, and have found that to be enormously useful.

I look forward to this resurrected thread.

[VincentD]

Try the word 'ringing' instead. Then, with that echoing in your brain, do not say the first syllable. The 'ng' is the bridge. Then, to say 'ngern' substitute that as the last syllable.
Have fun.

[VincentD]

BTW, it is better that you learn the written script as well, otherwise it will be like trying to learn how to speak English using Thai script only, bypassing the abcs..

[VincentD]

I would recommend a fairly old book, it's called 'Easy Thai' by Gordon H. Allison.

[PeteC]

I would recommend a fairly old book, it's called 'Easy Thai' by Gordon H. Allison.

Yes, I used that in the 70's and 80's until the pages fell out. Easy to use and easy to learn from it. A quick search shows it's still available on the likes of Amazon and others. I don't know about a digital version, I didn't see any reference to one.

[404cameljockey]

Thanks all, I'll practice my snake on a Thai (now then, settle down).

[Jack_Batty]

I would recommend a fairly old book, it's called 'Easy Thai' by Gordon H. Allison.

This is the book I used to learn to write Thai back in the summer of 1990. It was a fantastic resource.

[404cameljockey]

I have "Easy Thai' on .pdf today and will try. The intention of my first post was to ask for help with a pronunciation, but you fellas have given me a higher task now! I still wish there was a 'wai' emoticon, but anyway

[Ratsima]

Where did you find the PDF?

[VincentD]

Having fun with your 'snake' yet? Try combining 'ringing' with 'igloo' to get the ngu sound.
As an aside, when I had to learn Malay, they also have a 'ny' sound. Nyawa(life), nyamok(mosquito) and Nyonya(a certain ethnic group in Singapore, meaning Straits born).
The Thais, too, have a problem with the word 'snake', it tends to be pronounced as 'sa-nake'. This can be demonstrated by the Thai alphabetical structure, สบาย. If translated directly into English, it would be 'Sbay', but is actually pronounced 'sa-bay'. This is why I suggest learning the written form as well as you will then understand the proper word structure and pronunciation.

[404cameljockey]

Having fun with your 'snake' yet? Try combining 'ringing' with 'igloo' to get the ngu sound.
As an aside, when I had to learn Malay, they also have a 'ny' sound. Nyawa(life), nyamok(mosquito) and Nyonya(a certain ethnic group in Singapore, meaning Straits born).
The Thais, too, have a problem with the word 'snake', it tends to be pronounced as 'sa-nake'. This can be demonstrated by the Thai alphabetical structure, สบาย. If translated directly into English, it would be 'Sbay', but is actually pronounced 'sa-bay'. This is why I suggest learning the written form as well as you will then understand the proper word structure and pronunciation.

In my early days here I heard 'te-wenty' and thought 'seventy' and sometimes had some funny episodes.

[hhinner]

Having fun with your 'snake' yet? Try combining 'ringing' with 'igloo' to get the ngu sound.
As an aside, when I had to learn Malay, they also have a 'ny' sound. Nyawa(life), nyamok(mosquito) and Nyonya(a certain ethnic group in Singapore, meaning Straits born).
The Thais, too, have a problem with the word 'snake', it tends to be pronounced as 'sa-nake'. This can be demonstrated by the Thai alphabetical structure, สบาย. If translated directly into English, it would be 'Sbay', but is actually pronounced 'sa-bay'. This is why I suggest learning the written form as well as you will then understand the proper word structure and pronunciation.

In my early days here I heard 'te-wenty' and thought 'seventy' and sometimes had some funny episodes.

I still get that, especially in 7-11. I think I will always hear "tawenty" as "seventy".

[Ratsima]

I may say in my broken and over-polite Thai 'khun khap, nam nam khap' (sir, bring me water please)

As for your near homophone problem with nam (นำ) and nam (นำ้) you might try different wording.

Perhaps: ขอน้ำเปล่าครับ - koh nam plao krap - Please give me some plain water. I’m not sure why, but it seems common for people to refer to drinking water as น้ำเปล่า - nam plao - plain water.

I’ve also heard Thais use เอาน้ำเปล่าครับ - ao nam plao krap - I'd like some water.

I was told that ao is less polite than koh, but I hear it all the time, so it must be generally accepted.

As I mentioned, I do not really speak Thai, so perhaps someone who does could fact check me and verify what I've written.

[404cameljockey]

I was told that ao is less polite than koh, but I hear it all the time, so it must be generally accepted.
As I mentioned, I do not really speak Thai, so perhaps someone who does could fact check me and verify what I've written.

Thanks Rats, I like nam nam, to see if my intonation is accepted!

Ao vs. koh, I wonder if koh is one of those words that Thais can use with each other, but a farang is advised to be more polite? Would be good to know.

Incidentally, I think I will start using khrap and not khap, when I hear it spoken using the Thai 'r' which is almost an 'l' it it always sounds nicer.