Applying for Fiancee Visa

Post by **Pamela Pettitt** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:48 am

Duuh! Forgot to ask you experienced people very vital question - brother is applying for Fiancee Visa in Bangkok - he has prepared all paperwork so don't think problems this end. However first application failed - seems that his fiancee did not provide enough information on her form etc. - this time we will be there to help her but would be grateful for any info that would help!!
Seems to be a quagmire of beurocracy!!

Post by **lomuamart** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:37 am

I must admit that I'm not too well up on fiancee visas. My wife came over on a Visitor's Visa last year and that was no problem. Took 3 days.
As I understand it, your brother's fiancee, or he as sponsor, will still have to demonstrate that he can take care of her financially and with suitable accommodation during her stay and that there's proof of an ongoing, serious relationship that has lasted some time . I don't think that there's there's the need to prove that she will return to Thailand as the inference is that she'll be staying in the UK and probably applying for Indefinite Leave to Remain afterwards. There is a time limit during which the marriage should take place, however (6 months?).
Do you have the wording of the first refusal? That would help with advice as the reasons will have to be countered at the second application. The Embassy has to give written reasons for the refusal.
I'm sure the second application will go well, but if it dosn't, your brother may want to consider getting married in Thailand. It's dead easy and can be done within a matter of days. This is then recognised in the UK and his wife can apply straight away for a Settlement Visa - 2 years, then ILR. It's a possibility if the fiancee visa is turned down again. The only drawback is that The Embassy may be suspicious of a marriage so close to two failed fiancee applications.
Again, the exact reasons for the first refusal would help.

Post by **gooze** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:32 am

BE CAREFUL:

If the second visa is turned down getting married here will not guarantee entry to the UK. I have a close friend here who will confirm that to anyone.

Bank statements from UK, proof of employement, but most importantly proof that the relationship is genuine. Photos are great for this. Also when the lady is interviewed tell her to speak English DO NOT ask for a translator.

Good luck let us know how it went.

Post by **lomuamart** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:15 am

Good point from gooze regarding the interview.
There are frequent horror stories of Embassy translators not giving the correct information from the applicant to the interviewer - and vice versa.
As an aside, an old g/f was refused a VV twice. One of the reasons given was that she'd stated in her application that she helped with tourist tours in Thailand - yet she asked for the interview to be conducted in Thai. The Imm Officer therefore didn't believe she could speak English and so her occupation couldn't be true. Mind you, that was years ago (about 10 or so) and The Embassy was a lot more draconian than it is now.

Post by **DawnHRD** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:35 am

I would add for her to take as much anecdotal proof as she can. About 4 years ago, I took my BF back to UK for a visit. At our first interview they told us to come back with this sort of thing: printouts of emails, cards (birthday, Valentine etc), photos, letters etc. I even took ticket stubs from a flight to Koh Samui we'd taken together (had our names & the date on). This was all to prove that the relationship was genuine & that it had been going on for as long as we claimed. We had no problem getting the visa.

He didn't speak much English at that point, but he spoke enough to answer the basic questions put to him, in English & it was fine. Of course, fiancee visa is a bit different, but they're generally fair, from what I've seen, if the parties are truthful & have all the proof that they need.

Post by **Pamela Pettitt** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:47 am

Hello Guys - Thank you so much for your replies - I got a good telling off from brother as first application was just for a Holiday Visa - so sorry for incorrect info. We built a really good Portfolio - photo's etc. from this end but there were many reasons given by Embassy - they were suspicious that he should apply for 3 month visa - but he wanted to see if she thought she could settle in U.K.
This is first Application for fiancee visa - also we will both be going over in November to help her - her English is improving but like us all you don't learn as fast as when you are in Country.
Have just finished reading 'Tha Girl'

Please keep in touch - you are greast fund of information - brother intends to retire to HH in few years but me before that. What would it be like for retired Farang lady?

Post by **lomuamart** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:19 am

Give us the exact wording of the refusal.
We can move on from there.

Post by **Pamela Pettitt** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:36 am

Refusal of Entry Clearance (this was for 3 month Holiday Visa)

Your application has been considered on the basis of the papers and documents submitted and without an interview. I am aware that you will have been given every opportunity to provide any documents you wish in support of your application. Furthermore I am aware that enough information will have been made available to you to ensure that you knew in advance what documents we would normally expect to be provided.

You state you wish to visit the United Kingdom for three months and stay with your boyfriend. You are a first time visitor to the U.K. and only met your boyfriend in April 2006 when he visited Thailand for a short period. He has not returned to Thailand since then. Whilst I note you have maintained some E-mail contact since you left Thailand, it is important to ascertain your intentions given that any relationship between you is clearly at an embryonic stage.

You state that you are employed here as a gem cutter earning 5,000 baht per month. No evidence has been proferred to corroborate your employment. Whether employed or not I do not find it credible that you could take three months away from such employment. Lastly you have a young son whom you are willing to leave here for a minimum of three months. You have no previous travel outside Thailand and offered no documentation to show you have any economic commitments to your home country. I am not satisfied that you are well settled here, and given you are prepared to leave your child for such a long period, I am not satisfied on your intentions to leave the UK. Whilst your sponsor guarantees are helpful there are not enforceable in UK law and it is your intentions that are paramount.

Above was the reasons given for the refusal. Much has changed since then so I can answer further questions you need info on and also that the next Appliation is for a Fiancee Visa.

Post by **lomuamart** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:29 am

PP,
That's a pretty standard reply. The two things that stand out are The Embassy's reluctance to believe that the girl will return to Thailand - her job, time away etc etc. I appreciate that she'll be applying for a fiancee visa this time round, so the situation has changed.
However, the most important thing is that the two people will have to demonstrate a genuine relationship that has been lasting for a while. I'm afraid that the B/f's history of visits to Thailand will not help matters. Sure, letters, photos, emails will help but there's nothing like a physical relationship, especially if the girl's going to get married!!!
How long after the VV refusal will they be be applying for fiancee? That will raise a few flags as well.
I'm also afraid to say that the fact she has a kid will actually be a hinderence, not a help. "Another mouth to feed in the UK". Your brother has already seen how the child has been used to work against the original application. Believe me, my ex g/f had three children. I've been through it. The wording above brings back memories.
I think your brother will have an uphill struggle. Sorry to say that, but first and foremost there's just not enough "history" there. To apply for a different type of visa now - fiancee - will not impress The Embassy. I've mentioned marriage before, but gooze was quite right when he said don't do it. It dosn't look good. The fiancee thing is half way there and that's how The Embassy will look at it.
So, everything above is negative and the points are those that the two people should focus in on.
It's not going to be easy, but even if the next visa is turned down, they shouldn't give up. The Embassy will probably assume that a high percentage of similar applications will just "fade away". and that's the case, I'm sure.
Keep knocking on their door and she'll eventually be let in. It's all about demonstrable history.

Post by **caller** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:06 pm

If they are that serious and really committed, then get married in LOS. Whats the advantage of doing it in the UK? He can then apply for a 2 year settlement visa. But as above, the relationship has to be real and be proved real. Thats contact, contact and more contact, photos to emails, phone bills, passport stamps, hotel receipts, preferably booked in both names, the lot. That includes both your brothers and GF's records. Then proof as a sponsor of the ability to maintain TG/child in UK. Work details, pay slips, savings, accommodation.

Not sure why you both have to go to LOS to assist? Surely he'll complete the application form, covering letters from hime and her? Download the VAF1 and email or post it. Your brother won't be allowed near the embassy in any case, should an interview be needed and I guess it will?

And remember a VAF1 is needed for both TG and child (if child travelling to the UK), thats double the fees and proof of either sole custody of the child from the amphur or I guess, written and certified agreement of the father allowing child to travel.

Its been said here by those assisting, including me, that we're not experts. But if your brother looks at Thailand-UK.com, he'll find a whole wealth of information on how to proceed.

Good luck.

Post by **Onlyme** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:47 pm

like us all you don't learn as fast as when you are in Country.

Sorry, that cracked me up!
I've met farrangs who've been here for years and are still speaking pigeon Thai!
Onlyme.

PS. Should that be "Pidgin English?"

Post by **Pamela Pettitt** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:30 am

Thank you for your replies - well that is a pretty gloomy outlook. Both brother and g/f have been in contact by e-mail,phone calls for all these months. The time between applying for Holiday Visa and Fiancee Visa is 16 months - he (we) met up with her at Hua Hin in May which was his first visit in a year. We have kept receipts of where we stayed and have many photo's - brother has also been paying money in to Bank Account towards her keep.
He has kept Statements etc. and all this was presented at the first Application.
Due to work he only has 4 weeks leave a year so I have persuaded him to break this in to 2 visits this year - the next in November - the reason we are both going is to give moral support to g/f. Then brother is going to Travel up north to meet her family and I am going to HH for a weeks R and R.
I don't understand if not only him but we as a family back here are willing to help her why such hassle.
Also language - Embassy making big deal out of this for whatever reason!!
There are as everyone knows many here who cannot speak the lingo.
They are both very committed to this relationship and I am sure many of you know hard it is to want to be with some-one when all that stands in way is Bureaucracy.
Would appreciate comments please.

Post by **lomuamart** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 am

PP. As everyone's been saying, so much is going to revolve around how genuine The Embassy believe the relationship to be. The fact that there's been 16 months between applications will help - at least it's not a month or so with a change of status from g/f to fiancee during it. They've also got a lot of evidence of staying in touch. Another plus point.
Will the child be coming over if the settlement visa is successful or staying here until the couple are married? Whilst the help your brother and you are giving will be vital, it's not just a question of money, accommodation and moral support (the first two will have to be demonstrated though). At the end of the day, it's the applicant who's being assessed, not the sponsor or their family.
All you can do really is try to make the relationship seem as genuine as possible and think about it from the IO's point of view. She may well be successful, but if not then try again in the future after more evidence of contact and a few more visits over here to see her.
If you're still not satisfied with the outcome, then there is a complaints proceedure, either through The Embassy or back in the UK. See The Embassy's web site for details.
Good luck.

Post by **SHADOW** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 am

I think they will probably turn down his/her application. They have only had contact for a short time i.e being together. What needs to be stressed is the proof of needing to return to Thailand. Your best bet is to apply for a three week holiday visa, they will normally issue a three month single entry visa. Then when in the UK apply for an extension of stay. The waiting list for this is over six months, but she can stay until her application has been accepted or denied.

A bit cheeky but every other person is doing this, if she wishes to leave before her application has been approved write for the return of her passport this takes two to three weeks.
Your brother will have no right to appeal if they turn down fiancee visa this is only open to people who have common law wife status three years I think.

Post by **caller** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:53 pm

With respect Pamela, the comments in your last post suggest you are a long way from understanding the reality of getting a visa. I would suggest you take my advice if you or your brother are serious.

With respect to this forum, its not designed to help those seeking visas to the UK, although, quite a few here will have managed it, including me.