Vaccines - Covid 19

Temporary sub-forum for all news, updates, developments and discussion on Coronavirus/Covid-19 in Hua Hin, Thailand and globally. Any and all topics on the outbreak will be moved into this forum for ease of information access.

Full time or part time foreign residents of Thailand which vaccine(s) have you or will you receive?

______First__________________
0
No votes
AstraZeneca
12
15%
Johnson & Johnson
1
1%
Moderna
1
1%
Pfizer
14
18%
Sinopharm
1
1%
Sinovac
11
14%
Other
0
No votes
______Second________________
0
No votes
AstraZeneca
20
25%
Moderna
2
3%
Pfizer
16
20%
Sinopharm
1
1%
Sinovac
0
No votes
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 79

Taf in Cha-am
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by Taf in Cha-am »

Big Boy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:00 pm No, but I think they'll all be saying the same. Why are Thailand issuing Sinovac to the over 60's when it should be AZ? Many saying they won't accept Sinovac.

A strange story, but one of my son's friends in Germany, who has visited us several times here in Hua Hin is saying that she doesn't trust any of the vaccines they're offering in Germany, and is going to fly her family to Hungary so that they can get Sinovac, which she believes to be far superior to the vaccines being offered in Germany.

When I hear stories like that, it makes me wonder. Everybody seems to be rubbishing everything, everywhere across the world at the moment. Are all of the vaccines OK, but we're all being influenced by what we're reading on social media by the naysayers?
I think there's plenty to be said for that, and I offer the following as one person's perspective and experience over the past several months with regard to making big decisions about vaccines.

I've been living and working as an international school teacher in Shanghai, China, for the past 20 years, with regular visits to Cha-am during that time (most recently in March 2020, just as the first wave of shutdowns began in Thailand). We just finished a full school year of in-person school, without a day of missed school as a result of any restrictions, localized shutdowns, or other disruptions. There were some minor inconveniences (daily reporting of health status), but this was a small price to pay.

In mid-January our school received word that its teachers were being given the option to take the Sinovac vaccine, and we had a short time window (<24 hours, I believe) to make the decision. It was an easy call: my wife and I signed on to have the shot. Later that week we were loaded up onto school buses and sent to an indoor sports stadium to have the first of two doses, with the follow up jab taking place two weeks later.

Several of my colleagues were hesitant and refused the shot, waiting for a "better option" to come through via the US Consulate . . . but, as is the case in Thailand, this did not come to pass. Eventually, these colleagues had to make their own arrangements to take the Sinovac vaccine.

In terms of safety, the vaccine has been administered to hundreds of millions of people. They were cautious--sending out initial samples to other countries before widely distributing them within China.

As for efficacy, the lack of major outbreaks or, more importantly, major fatalities in China seems to support that the Sinovac option is working well enough to be a part of a solution that is, for now, working well enough to allow for life to return pretty much to normal. Of course, I know that Sinovac is not the "magic bullet" for everything--major border restrictions, quarantine-on-arrival, aggressive testing, health screenings, monitoring of movement, and strict lockdowns of neighborhoods/villages where cases are found are also in place.

I'm no apologist for the "Chinese Way" of doing things, but in this case--and for now--their approach to the pandemic seems to have been effective, and I have to believe that the aggressive promotion of Sinovac has played a role in that process.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by handdrummer »

sateeb wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:02 pm Either listen to social media "experts" or follow WHO guidelines. The choice is yours. :cheers:

This from 1st June

https://www.who.int/news/item/01-06-202 ... mendations

WHO validates Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use and issues interim policy recommendations

WHO today validated the Sinovac-CoronaVac COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use, giving countries, funders, procuring agencies and communities the assurance that it meets international standards for safety, efficacy and manufacturing. The vaccine is produced by the Beijing-based pharmaceutical company Sinovac.

“The world desperately needs multiple COVID-19 vaccines to address the huge access inequity across the globe,” said Dr Mariângela Simão, WHO Assistant-Director General for Access to Health Products. “We urge manufacturers to participate in the COVAX Facility, share their knowhow and data and contribute to bringing the pandemic under control.”
The WHO didn't say what criteria they used to validate Sinovac. Did they sit around a table, eating lunch and someone said, "Oh, what the hell, lets validate all the vaccines, what have we got to lose?" I would like to know which vaccines the WHOalites got.
I'm not disparaging any vaccines, just questioning their methods. The WHO doesn't have the best track record for integrity.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by caller »

sateeb wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:02 pm Either listen to social media "experts" or follow WHO guidelines. The choice is yours. :cheers:
Can't argue about listening to the WHO, but it is they that have warned against mixing different vaccines. Although research in the West has suggested there can be benefits. The problem is, as far as I am aware, that none of those tests involved sinovac. Although the Thai's claim to have tested 1200 using sinovac then AZ without problems. Can't recall any findings being published though.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by hhinner »

caller wrote:
sateeb wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:02 pm Either listen to social media "experts" or follow WHO guidelines. The choice is yours. :cheers:
Can't argue about listening to the WHO, but it is they that have warned against mixing different vaccines. Although research in the West has suggested there can be benefits. The problem is, as far as I am aware, that none of those tests involved sinovac. Although the Thai's claim to have tested 1200 using sinovac then AZ without problems. Can't recall any findings being published though.
WHO warned against individuals deciding what vaccines to mix.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by GroveHillWanderer »

Lost wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:19 am They're saying not a single vaccinated person has been hospitalised from the virus. I'm going to dig a bit deeper to try verify this claim as it's from a daily mail article. Good news if true. Let the antivaxxers crack on. :twisted: :roll:
This is not just in the Daily Mail - it was also reported by AP, CNN, BBC etc. It was in reference to cases in the last month, as far as I recall.

It's hardly a new trend though, NBC News also has the following:
Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson said at a news conference last month that since the beginning of the year, at least 98 percent of hospitalized Covid-19 patients were unvaccinated and that more than 99 percent of deaths were among unvaccinated people.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... t-n1273342
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by HHTel »

Do the maths on this article citing a report from PHE (Public Health England(
Most Covid deaths in UK are among fully vaccinated: Should it worry you?


More vaccinated people are dying of Covid than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England (PHE). The report shows that 163 of the 257 people (63.4%) who died of the Delta variant within 28 days of a positive test between February 1 and June 21, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. At first glance, this may seem alarming, but it is exactly as would be expected.
https://www.deccanherald.com/internatio ... 09214.html
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by GroveHillWanderer »

caller wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:47 pm Can't argue about listening to the WHO, but it is they that have warned against mixing different vaccines.
As @hhinner alludes to, the WHO didn't really warn about mixing vaccines in an overall manner - one WHO representative said there was "a little bit of a dangerous trend" of individuals deciding for themselves, to mix vaccines.

She said that this only applied to individuals and that government health authorities were the people who should be making such decisions.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by Dannie Boy »

So is there an overall verdict on the “wisdom” of mixing Sinovac, followed by AZ, or is there insufficient data at this moment in time - are we the guinea-pigs?
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by buksida »

Either way, I'm not rushing into anything, especially if approved by Thailand's unqualified health minister in what appears to be a massive face-saving exercise ... :duck:
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by europtimiste »

Mix two useless shit vaccines = a miracle vaccine
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by GroveHillWanderer »

HHTel wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:11 am Do the maths on this article citing a report from PHE (Public Health England(
Most Covid deaths in UK are among fully vaccinated: Should it worry you?


More vaccinated people are dying of Covid than unvaccinated people, according to a recent report from Public Health England (PHE). The report shows that 163 of the 257 people (63.4%) who died of the Delta variant within 28 days of a positive test between February 1 and June 21, had received at least one dose of the vaccine. At first glance, this may seem alarming, but it is exactly as would be expected.
https://www.deccanherald.com/internatio ... 09214.html
The headline on that article is totally misleading. As the extract below clearly states, these figures related to people who "had received at least one dose of the vaccine" - so not all of them were fully vaccinated.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by Big Boy »

buksida wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:49 am Either way, I'm not rushing into anything, especially if approved by Thailand's unqualified health minister in what appears to be a massive face-saving exercise ... :duck:
After his major cock-up with the AZ contract, I think he is trying to do a 2 loaves and 5 fishes job with what he has. It has to be his last throw of the dice. If it works, he'll be a national hero. If it fails, he'll be as well thought of as he is now :?
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by Big Boy »

GroveHillWanderer wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:46 am The headline on that article is totally misleading.
That is the problem with most 'News' stories these days. Everybody wants to put their own spin on things and lie by omission.
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by GroveHillWanderer »

europtimiste wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:54 am Mix two useless shit vaccines = a miracle vaccine
Nobody is saying that - not even the government. I think it's fairly clear that the government is being more or less forced into this policy because of its failed vaccine acquisition efforts. They have seen that the SinoVac vaccine is not doing the job and is looked down on by Thais and foreigners alike, while there is not enough AstraZeneca vaccine available to use that alone.

Having said that, heterologous prime-boost (mixing vaccines) is a well established principle of vaccinology. The human immune system is an incredibly complex and multi-faceted thing. Since all the vaccines are different, they all stimulate the different parts of the immune system in differing ways and to different degrees.

For instance, one vaccine might invoke a better humoral response while another might produce a better cellular response. If so, then by mixing them, you can get a better, overall effect than by giving the same vaccine twice.

This has proven to be the case with multiple different vaccines in the past and the preliminary findings of the ongoing trials into mixing Covid vaccines show similar promising levels of immune response from a heterologous prime-boost regimen.

Here's a link to the findings of a Spanish study, for example.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3

As stated in that article by Daniel Altmann, an immunologist at Imperial College London:
A strong immune response to the mix-and-match strategy is “entirely predictable from the basic immunology”...
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Re: Vaccines - Covid 19

Post by hhinner »

^^ Oh shoot! I've had the first AZ jab, should I now demand Sinovac for the second? What a dilemma!
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