British & Irish Governments Plan Ceremony in Croke Park

[troopie]

I nominate this for "Thread of the Year" 2007.

I agree, it is quite a good thread - an interesting history lesson that I wasn't aware of. However, will it go the same way as the Aussie cricket thread if England win? I suspect there will be a quick change of subject, and Irish rugby forgotten until their next opportunity to get one over on the English.

Hell no! If England win, the thread will merely change to 'We was robbed', etc! However, I would expect an English victory tonight to be remembered as long & as fondly as any other indicent in Anglo-Irish history!

Seriously, so long as the 6N is happening, there is no need for green rugby to be forgotten -- unless we let it be forgotten! The balls in our 22, boys -- it's up to us to keep this thread alive.

Anyway, it's only a few hours till the historic kick off & I'm already practicing, watching the Force v Lions Super 14 game & helping Chang's profits at the same time! Multi-tasking at its finest!:cheers:

[Jockey]

Troopie, I agree that the Croke Park massacre was an appalling atrocity, but it wasn’t carried out by the British Army, it was the Auxiliary Division of the Royal Irish Constabulary.

The ADRIC was recruited in Britain from among ex-officers who had served in World War I--especially those who had served in the Army and the Royal Flying Corps. Most recruits were British, though some were Irish, and others came from the British Empire and Commonwealth. Many had been highly decorated in the war and two, George Onions and James Leach, wore the Victoria Cross. Interestingly, their decorations make it clear that many had been promoted from the ranks: some men, for example, had been awarded the common soldier's Military Medal instead of (or in addition to) the officer's Military Cross. Enlisted men who had been commissioned as officers during the War often found it difficult to adjust to their loss of status and pay in civilian life, and historians have concluded that the Auxiliary Division recruited large numbers of these "temporary gentlemen".

Recruiting began in July 1920 and by November 1921 the division was 1,900 strong. The Auxiliaries were nominally part of the RIC, but actually operated more or less independently in rural areas. Divided into companies (eventually fifteen of them), each about one hundred strong, heavily armed and highly mobile, they operated in ten counties, mostly in the south and west, where IRA activity was greatest. They wore either RIC uniforms or their old army uniforms with appropriate police badges, along with distinctive Tam-o-shanter caps. They were commanded by Brigadier-General F P Crozier, a former officer of the Unionist paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force.

[troopie]

They were commanded by Brigadier-General F P Crozier, a former officer of the Unionist paramilitary Ulster Volunteer Force.

Indeed, there is an interesting footnote to General Crozier. Yes indeed, he did form & command the ADRIC --BUT he resigned just 1 year later, in 1921, on account of "condonation of crime in the Irish police."

Also, & this might seem rather strange, but some have said that units like the Auxiliaries and infamous Black and Tans, raised by London to crush the Irish rebels, greatly helped the cause of Irish independence, as they helped to destroy any remaining respect and trust that the police commanded, even amongst non-republican Irish folk!

Anyway, history time over -- on with the game! I've just heard Winkinson will be playing, so it won't be a complete walkover for Brian O'Driscoll & the boys. Then again, an easy victory (for either side) would please no-one, so here's hoping it's a hard-fought game, possibly with a thrilling last minute decider, like the Western Force-Lions game this afternoon!
(Hope Crawfords has Plenty of Guinness in stock!)

[bozzman101]

plenty of gunnnessssss here tropie ...lol
but its frezzzzzzzzzzin compaired to hua hin

would like to be watching it there even thought it might be passed my bed time ..............lolss ok lokking forward to a gret game
what ever the score or who wins!!!!!!!!!!
mr green have any significane wondering enjoy ladssssssss

[troopie]

plenty of gunnnessssss here tropie ...lol
but its frezzzzzzzzzzin compaired to hua hin

would like to be watching it there even thought it might be passed my bed time ..............lolss ok lokking forward to a gret game
what ever the score or who wins!!!!!!!!!!
mr green have any significane wondering enjoy ladssssssss

I'm not the type of guy who rubs it in -- BUT it's coming up to 21.50 here & still around 30c. Nonetheless, my much better half has helped me ensure the fridge is full so no problem! Kick-off for THE game is midnight-30 Thai time -- thank god tomorrow's Sunday! At present, I have a choice of Bulls V Chiefs (Super 14) or Italy V Scotland -- the only game Italy has a hope of winning! Tough choice! However, I'll wait for the repeat of the France vs Wales game, as that's on during THE game.

Anyway, the next time I come on the Net, I might be (a) legless due to celebrating or (b) legless after drowning my sorrows!
(With Thailand being such a rugby desert, thank god for Sat TV!)

[troopie]

It's half time & the score is a very pleasing 23-3.
Comments:
a)- I am so proud of the irish. Not only did they applaud the English team as it came on, not only did they show great respect for the English national anthem, they are also playing like men possessed!
b)- The referee is totally pathetic! Weak & inconsistant -- at least 2 yellow cards that should have been handed out weren't, & there is good grounds for thinking a penalty try wouldn't have been out of place.

If the 2nd half is as good as the 1st, I'll have a smile on my face all through tomorrow -- even though I might be on autopilot, with a headache to test the tolerance of a saint!

I hear tickets for this game were going at ridiculous blackmarket prices. If so, then they were worth every Euro!

[troopie]

"Bliss it was in that dawn to be alive, but to watch it in Thailand was very heaven."

In case you haven't heard, it was a home win of 43-13!
Honour has been satisfied & 80,000+ spectators watched a remarkable game of rugby. I must admit that the BBC's one-sided commentary team (2 poms, plus a token Irishman who was rarely referred to) didn't help -- at least the South African team included a former Irish international, though not a Pom. Maybe all the Poms have had the good sense to get out of SA!

Anyway, a great game that I plan to download as soon as possible. Congrats to England for having the guts to play such a historic game but as one of the BBC bods said, England has had a pretty easy 6-Nations path thus far & tonight, they met some REAL opposition! Better luck next time.

The old gents who gave in & allowed the English to play in Croke Park have been proved right. Ireland a potential RWC contender? I need more beer before I can answer that one . . .

[bozzman101]

hi guys its all over now

agree about the star thnak god there were no cretins look like 82 k clapping their hands after the English national anthem

very entertaining the first half wow what a second

would loved to be there but as tropie explains a motguage required for a ticket

now for round 3 wales france

and oppps condolences to the other celts playing to day

after 10 mins 3 trys down to the itilians

[JimmyGreaves]

Oh happy the lily when kissed by the bee!


43-13

"Lord Nelson, Lord Beaverbrook, Sir Winston Churchill, Sir Anthony Eden, Clement Atlee, Henry Cooper, Lady Diana!!! Maggie Thatcher. Can you hear me Maggie Thatcher? Your boys took one hell of a beating. Your boys took one hell of a beating."

[caller]

I couldn't give a toss about the history - its not my fault. And even the OP left a sour taste about bloody sunday. There's a guy sits at GA's shoulder who was a pivotal player and has yet to meet his maker about that, But I hate England losing at anything.

So to me, we lost a game to the Irish and well done to them for their win. It hurts though.

But lets cut out the faux history, otherwise, everytime the English beat Italy, we'll be saying its revenge for what the romans did for us, then the Nords and so on..........

A great stadium has finally made its world debut, not for secular reasons, but for sporting ones. Isn't that good enough - and the way it should be?

[JimmyGreaves]

I couldn't give a toss about the history - its not my fault. And even the OP left a sour taste about bloody sunday. There's a guy sits at GA's shoulder who was a pivotal player and has yet to meet his maker about that, But I hate England losing at anything.

So to me, we lost a game to the Irish and well done to them for their win. It hurts though.

But lets cut out the faux history, otherwise, everytime the English beat Italy, we'll be saying its revenge for what the romans did for us, then the Nords and so on..........

A great stadium has finally made its world debut, not for secular reasons, but for sporting ones. Isn't that good enough - and the way it should be?

Totally agree caller.

Everyone likes to beat the english as they are typically bad losers, no humility. They think and talk as though they have always got the best team (especially in Football) when they should be more honest and admit they are CRAP the majority of the time! AND THATS NO PUBLIC HOUSE TALK

[Jaime]

I couldn't give a toss about the history - its not my fault. And even the OP left a sour taste about bloody sunday. There's a guy sits at GA's shoulder who was a pivotal player and has yet to meet his maker about that, But I hate England losing at anything.

So to me, we lost a game to the Irish and well done to them for their win. It hurts though.

But lets cut out the faux history, otherwise, everytime the English beat Italy, we'll be saying its revenge for what the romans did for us, then the Nords and so on..........

Well said. I watched all three games with a German friend yesterday. Incredulous at the political, rather than sporting emphasis of the pre-match coverage he quoted various statistics from world war 2 in order to provide some comparison with the dozen or so fatalities at Croke Park, including the fact that the deaths of some 22 million Russians did not result in a bar on German football teams playing in Russia after the war!

Fantastic game of rugby though, unless you are an England rugby supporter of course! Ireland's pack really took England to the cleaners and exposed the England resurgence under Ashton for the hype that it is. Will Carling is right about Andy Farrell - he's a leaden footed, slow ball shipping, non-union convert and gives nothing to the England attack. Hope I'm not made to eat those words when Wales take on England in Cardiff though!

[troopie]

Well after the delicate northern hemisphere boys took their usual week off (the 6 Nations plays alternate weekends rather than every week like the Super 14), we have another cracking weekend of rugby ahead.
The Irish are playing the Jocks (20.30 Thai time), which should (should) give them few if any problems. The French denied them a Grand Slam but they could still get the Triple Crown. Italy take on Wales (22.30 TT), a game they could win.
Talking of the French, the Sunday match at Twickenham (21.45 TT) must be the 6N game of the week. The French can & very well might get the Grand Slam, making them a true contender should the World Cup stay in the north.
Heading south, we have some great Super 14 games (though yesterday's Western Force-Hurricanes game's ending will be hard to match!). We have the Blues v Lions at Eden Park (13.00 Thai time), the Waratahs v Bulls in Sydney (15.30 TT) & the Cheetahs v Sharks (21.30 TT).
My phone will be off the hook most of today -- & expect to see a surge in Chang's profits!

[Jaime]

Well after the delicate northern hemisphere boys took their usual week off (the 6 Nations plays alternate weekends rather than every week like the Super 14)

Not quite true Troopie - the current format of the six nations is that games are played every weekend with a weekend off in the middle of the tournament. Not really comparing like for like either. Super 14 is not a test match competition, whereas the six nations is. Our northern equivalents of the super 14 do, of course, play every weekend and have a longer season than the pampered boys in the south....

[troopie]

Not quite true Troopie - the current format of the six nations is that games are played every weekend with a weekend off in the middle of the tournament. Not really comparing like for like either. Super 14 is not a test match competition, whereas the six nations is.

If you think the stress level is any different for the boys in a Super 14 team -- compared with the 'who-gives-a-shit' that let Wales beat England yesterday -- then you know little of Super 14! Believe me, the supporters & players view these games as test matches in all but name!
Anyway, to compare like with like -- what about the Tri-Nations? The furthest a 6N player has to travel is Dublin to Rome, compared with Pretoria to NZ! Also, I think there might be a connection with the fact that, for example, All Blacks players were given 7 weeks off from their usual S14 schedule, ready for the RWC. I doubt if European owners would agree to resting their best players during such a competition!

Our northern equivalents of the super 14 do, of course, have a longer season than the pampered boys in the south....

Maybe that's because (a) there's not much else to do in a northern winter, & (b) few Northern players could take a game in close to 40c/90% humidity conditions that S14 players have already faced this year. The reason the southern season is shorter is sheer survival!

I recall that after England won RWC 03 (a feat they are unlikely to repeat), they suggested they should be allowed to play in the Tri-Nations. Despite the relatively sorry performances by Oz & SA teams against weakened NZ opposition, I think it might have been humiliating if they'd managed to get in. I mean -- if even the Welsh can beat them . . .

Oh, & sincere congratulations to the French -- a deserved victory!