I don't think the comments about immigration into the UK are motivated by racist thinking, but more by a frustration over the loss of identity. We are told to be tolerant of other peoples beliefs & practices, while we are discouraged from expressing our own.
How long will it be before we are not allowed to call Christmas "Christmas"? There's already talk of it being called a Winter Festival.
The appeal of Thailand to me, is that it retains it's identity, & it's upto immigrants to adapt to the culture. Despite the number of immigrants, it remains typically Thai. Whereas the UK will soon just be a mish mash of religions & cultures, with little tradition of its own.
Add to that the overloaded health service, rising taxation, impending road charges, youths carrying knives & taking peoples lives for £20, & I dread to think what sort of retirement people have to look forward to in the future.
I think the issue in the UK is that the Govt. have lost touch with the guy in the street. I think it happens when parties are in power too long. It certainly affected the tories.
Not only that, but in the UK we have the "chattering classes", who seem to have an opinion on all and everything and as they are the rabid followers of too many moronic columnists that in certain papers, say the Guardian, carry an influence that is beyond reasonable proportion.
Gordon Brown made a statement recently about the outcome of a politically motived trial that didn't go to plan. The accused is that most dangerous of person - a highly intelligent and motivated man leading an extreme party to a degree of supposed moderation. I was against the trial and pleased with the outcome. Not because I support the said individual or his views or aims, but what he said was, in my opinion, his right. Brown said most right minded people would be sickened by the outcome. Well, I must be mixing in the wrong circles, as that wasn't the reaction I heard.
A few answers, the reason most of the immigration guys and girls at LHR are not of "UK ethnicity" - they are mainly sikhs, is due to the proximity of a large, well established and pretty law abiding sikh society in Southall and the surrounding areas.
A lot of us seem to be having difficulties with the latest wave of immigrants, possibly for the last 10/15 years or so, because many are bogus refugees (not to mention the latest wave from eatern europe, which the Govt. has finally admitted having no clue to the impact they will make - they should ask Slough, where 10,000 descended upon). The UK has a huge guilt complex and moral values that outweigh its wealth. But we suffer from the fact many of those that come to these shores benefit financially. A lot are economic migrants, in that they will have access to and claim welfare and other benefits that are certainly not available in LOS, including subsidised or free housing and medical care.
I'm prepared to be shouted at over that last statement. But professionally, I'm in a better position to know about this than many of you. Most of those coming here to seek asylum arrive via organised crime (debt) and the others can afford to get here. The ones that really need out from wherever, rarely make it, unless shipped out by the UK. They simply don't have the funds. I have always found that perverse.
For my part, I have seen too much abuse, too much incompetence in Govt and too many lies over the years to really want to have to stay and listen to the spin any more. And I don't think this current Govt. are any worse than any earlier one.
Like BB, I could go on and share his views about lots of "stealth taxes" and diminshing returns. Like BB, I have spent 31 years in public service and feel I am now being screwed unfairly.
I have a Thai wife who has now joined me in the UK and I choose to live and to a degree, work in a very cosmopolitan area. But maybe things have got out of hand recently. I can't see that changing in the near future, which I don't think is rosy and I see lots of difficult times ahead.
Another point and a rant, but does demonstrate how, on a local level, I'm affected.
The UK, rightly, has a well established adult education system, funding is by central govt. (mainly). So the missus arrives and although her English is reasonably good, it makes sense to improve it.
So, after being pushed from pillar to post by the local authority in which I live, we presented ourselves at the right centre, or so I thought.
Now, I am a UK and local tax payer, so I was a bit peeved to learn, that free training was only available to refugees, or those on benefits. My wife would have to pay. Its not cheap, to say the least and pay we will, but I suspect not everyone could afford it. I don't think thats right and discriminates against those that have been paying into the system - now that will upset some.
The balance needs to re-evaluated and the system changed to be fairer to all.
I was really hoping that this thread would stick to being reasons for leaving the UK rather than reasons for moving to Thailand. However, I've been as guilty as everybody else for going off thread - its too easy to do.
Teabone wrote:
While I would admit that there are probably more reasons for being in Thailand than there are Farangs, I think that most people who have been here for more than a few months dwell more on the reasons for 'being here' rather than 'not being in the UK
I have 2 very important reasons for wanting to move to Thailand - 2 beautiful granddaughters who I'm missing growing up.
caller wrote:
Like BB, I could go on and share his views about lots of "stealth taxes" and diminishing returns. Like BB, I have spent 31 years in public service and feel I am now being screwed unfairly.
That brings me on to reason number 6:
Work - As a Civil Servant we are constantly under the government's hammer, and are an easy target for savings. Our numbers are being decimated, but the work we have to do does not go away. This means that we are working under increasing pressure all of the time. Breaking point can not be that far away. Meanwhile the government makes itself look good because its just slashed another X,000 public jobs.
Regarding the immigration in to the UK issue, it doesn't bother me that much, but I've always taken the attitude that I don't care what anybody else gets providing I get what is due to me. Unfortunately, the British government at the moment is desperately trying to look politically correct (probably a throwback to the multiple conflicts they're involved in around the world). The balance seems to be increasingly swinging the way of immigrants to the UK at the moment - obviously if it was not, the UK would not look as attractive.
Great questions jockey but as i have just posted on another thread its the integration/lack of integration that jerked my string back in the UK and that is the responsibility of the immigrants
The problem with lack of integration comes from the forming of ghettos which the so called educated falangs seem to be doing here and they arent surrounded by foreigners they are surrounding themselves with falangs trying to make a little (country take your pick) in the sun
Hence threads like why no english speaking films on the THAI cinema
Heelloo this is thailand thats why
So it isnt immigration persay (spelling probably wrong) thats at fault its the lack of immigrants integration that raises the flags
As for raising costs one word to explain the UK
TAXES
Jockey – I do not find your posting at all inflammatory but read it as one seeking a balanced view.
My previous posting gave ONE reason for leaving the UK. Perhaps I should have stated that my Thai wife of 20 years and I prefer to live in Thailand. We reached this decision after weighing the pros and cons of living in either country. I outlined what I considered the disadvantages of living in the UK.
I am not against immigration but do believe that it needs to be controlled and that efforts made to ensure harmonious integration. The current British government has recently admitted that the integration policies have failed.
Would the world be a better place if everyone stayed put in their own country of birth?
No, I don’t think so. We learn from other cultures.
Do you think there might come a time when Thai people regard Ferangs in the same way a lot of British regard Asian immigrants?
That time would come if the Thai authorities allow the uncontrolled flow of immigrants in to Thailand.
Do Asians / Immigrants to Britain really make it a more expensive country to live in? (If so why?)
When immigrants are allowed the benefits the welfare state allows without contributing to the welfare fund, taxpayers pick up the bill. Previously I said the uncontrolled immigration and abuse of the system resulted in higher taxation. The abuse is not confined to immigrants and was started by native born British citizens. I believe the level of abuse has increased as a result of a reaction to media reports of welfare benefits given to newly arrived immigrants – “well if they can get it, why shouldn’t weâ€
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
Jockey,
Excellent post.
Huahinian,
Good reply, and I think it illustrates why issues such as immigration and race should be treated with great caution when posting - it is extremely easy to be misinterpreted and branded or even villified.
Everyone,
As others have already remarked the issue of integration of immigrants is more important than the fact that there are immigrants in the first place. The forming of 'ghettos' is a natural extension of something I commented on earlier - the fact that many people do not like the feeling of being outside their familiar surroundings and customs, which for many prevents them leaving their country in the first place. However some ghettos were imposed in some countries for immigrants which has given the name ghetto a bad association because they were normally cheap houses in poor areas, and the immigrants were only able to get low paying jobs if any - the classic scenario for crime to blossom. I don't believe the 'imposed ghettos' has ever been the situation in the UK and in many ways after many years the early waves of immigrants have been almost totally integrated, particularly in the big cities; it is the smaller towns where the immigrants are 'noticed' more where integration has failed miserably, both because of resentment by the indigenous population as they see benefits being handed out (presumably a govt policy to avoid immigrants turning to crime?) as well as the immigrants gathering together in strange surroundings. There is also an underlying racist tone in most of the newspapers, whether it is 'pro-white' or 'pro-non white' which doesn't help in the slightest.
People do have a 'gang' mentality in the main that is evident from childhood - people want to belong with other people for the safety and the communal spirit they get, and those individuals who don't go along with this are picked out, picked on and bullied to try to make them conform. Those who don't join in with whatever gang it is are seen as unfriendly, unsociable and 'perhaps there is something wrong with them', and eventually will be left alone.
The only real solutions to immigration and integration are patience, tolerance and time but most governments don't have that luxury. People do, but it seems the majority are not prepared to give these things, and would rather react with hate and fear to anything different.
Big Boy,
Many apologies for this diversion in your thread!
Wanderlust me old china bang on i agree you only missed out the feelings of exclusion felt by the hosts in the ghetto situation other than that perfick
I appreciate this is a little off-topic, BB, but I thought this news article that I've just seen would sit well here :This article appeared in the UK Sunday Mirror today
3 December 2006
EXCLUSIVE: MIGRANTS FACE BRIT TESTS TO STAY IN UK
EXCLUSIVE And they must speak English
By Vincent Moss
IMMIGRANTS who want to stay in Britain will have to pass tests in English and knowledge of life in the UK under plans unveiled tomorrow.
Home Secretary John Reid will announce the new rule which will be compulsory from April 2 for people who want to settle here permanently.
The clampdown is the latest in a series of measures by Dr Reid to tighten up immigration rules at the crisis-hit Home Office.
Immigrants will have to pass both tests before they are granted permanent settlement rights in a move which ministers hope will help increase integration between cultures.
The new tests for immigrants who want to settle in Britain moves them into line with those who want British nationality.
They have had to undertake the tests since November last year. A total of 134,615 people have taken the tests in the past year, with a pass rate of 68 per cent. People who already speak English do not have to take the language exam.
Dr Reid said the tests would help immigrants get jobs and fit in with their local communities.
He said: "It is essential that migrants wishing to live in the UK permanently recognise that there are responsibilities that go with this and having a good grasp of English is essential in order for them to play a full role in society and properly integrate into our communities."
In 2005, around 170,000 people applied for settlement - which allows them to remain in the UK indefinitely without the need to renew their visa. Many go on to apply for British citizenship after a further year in the UK.
ARE YOU A TRUE BRIT?
SAMPLE questions from the Britishness test:
1. When did women get the right to vote?
A 1840' B 1901'C 1918' D 1945.
2. What does Boxing Day celebrate?
A Appreciation of gifts received on Christmas Day' B Appreciation of work by servants and trades people' C Recycling the packages used to pack Christmas gifts' D The British Heavy weight Boxing Championship.
3. What do Easter eggs symbolise?
A Fertlity and progress' B Good health' C New life and the coming of spring' D Youth and happiness.
4. According to the Church of England, heirs to the throne are not allowed to marry whom?
A Anyone who is not of royal blood' B Anyone who is not a Protestant' C Anyone who is under the age of 25' D Anyone who was born outside the UK.
5. What is mistletoe traditionally used for at Christmas?
A Burned as an aromatic fuel' B Given to friends as a symbol of generosity' C Hung above doorways under which couples are expected to kiss' D Used as a spice to make Christmas pudding.
6. Who ceremonially appoints a new Archbishop of Canterbury?
A The existing Archbishop of Canterbury' B The Home Secretary' C The King or Queen' D The PM.
7. What does the first visitor of the New Year traditionally bring to a Scottish home?
A A bag of ice and whisk y' B A block of butter and whisky' C Coal, bread and whisky' D Milk, tar tan, cloth and whisky.
ANSWERS 1. C' 2.B' 3. C' 4. B' 5. C' 6. C' 7. C
Must admit, that I would only truely have been certain of three correct answers.
Name the 2 featured pubs in Eastenders and Coronation Street.
Where is Eastenders and Coronation Street?
Who is Simon Cowell?
Who are the hammers?
What is 'the brew'
What is 'a bobby'?
Which British team were first to win the european cup?
In the winter the UK can be a pretty miserable place to be. Cold, wet, windy, grey days. People walking around with long faces. Lots of little hitlers and jobsworths trying their hardest to make the place more miserable.
In the summer the UK can be a very different place. Hot, sunny, fun, more people with smiles. Plenty of good sporting events.
For me the best mix would be UK summers in the UK, and UK winters spent in LOS.
Utilities Bills - These are getting completely out of hand ie on a monthly basis I pay:
Gas - 32 pounds Electricity - 74 pounds Water - 36 pounds
That is 142 pounds or 9,940 Baht per month.
Only last weekend I received a letter from my Gas/Electricity supplier - yes, they're putting their prices up again. This is despite the cost of Gas dropping to 0 a few weeks back. I don't like it when these megga profiteering (is that a word?) organisations just keep on hiking up their prices for the sake of higher profits.
In Thailand what will it cost me to keep warm? - nothing. When I've stayed in Thailand Electricity and Water have cost me between 2000 and 3,000 per month, and I think I've been paying premium prices. Even if I have the air conditioning on a lot of the time, and we take 10 showers a day each, I still think I'd get a lot of change from my 9,940 Baht per month.
Reason Number 8:
Pension - Those of you who have been reading my reasons on this thread have probably twigged that my reasons are mainly financial. Yes you are right. When I retire, my income is halved. In the UK, I could survive, in Thailand my income will go much further. Its all about lifestyle, and a Thai lifestyle suits me much better.
but as i have just posted on another thread its the integration/lack of integration that jerked my string back in the UK and that is the responsibility of the immigrants
