LPG vs CNG vs Diesel vs Petrol

[MovetoHH]

G'day all
Just wondering what experience there is out there regarding choice and efficiency/economy of the various choices. My research on May 18 seems to indicate:
1) LPG - is inexpensive at about 13 THB per litre, relatively efficient. My friend has a Volvo with a 65l LPG tank and he says he gets 400km on the hiway and 300 city
2) CNG/NGV - about 12 THB per litre, apparently less effiecent than LPG, while some cars are now being sold with CNG tanks, the range seems to be very limited - like 150km for a 65l tank ?
3) Diesel - about 31 THB per litre, seems to be the choice for pickups and SUVs. But not sure of the range available
4) Petrol - a number of variants here E20, E85, 91,95 - E20 is about 37THB, E85 is new and there may be 1 station selling it in HH but I haven't found it, 91 was 39 and 95 was 42 THB and pure 95 called benezene is 50 THB. It seems that petrol engines/acrs will be the most expensive to run.
I have heard that LPG conversions are available and not too expensive but the newer engines may not be designed for it ? Anyone have any info for that ? My friend's Volvo has been running on LPG for about 10 years with no drama.
Does anyone know if there is there anyone in HH that does these conversions ?

Thanks for any help - David

[Big Boy]

To help with number 3, I've just had a week in the Krabi area using my diesel powered truck. I filled up before I left. I did over 800 miles, and fuel cost me 3,400 Baht, which included local running in the Krabi area.

My truck is fantastic when on a run, but a real gas guzzler on local running.

[Dannie Boy]

It may not be an issue for you, but if you have a gas tank, you lose a fair amount of storage room.

Regarding the E85, there are probably other outlets selling it, but there is a station next to The Energy development about 6 kms past Cha Am heading towards HH on the LHS. There are of course, only some cars that can use this fuel. I have a diesel Pajero Sport that averages 650 km's on a full tank.

[Gregjam]

One issue with CNG at present are the queues at the garages that sell it. During busy periods you will wait for quite a while.

[heartofmidlothian]

I ran my last car for the last 2 years on LPG. There are a couple of places to get the conversion. Cost me 400 baht to do 300 km but on long runs it was 400 km.
Just bought a new Honda Civic that can use E85. Seems that 1000 baht of fuel gets me 500 kms. The only gas station that I have seen is the one mentioned near The Energy, between Hua Hin and Cha Am.

[VincentD]

1. Diesel is priced artificially low at 30 baht. If the government decide to let it float, it will no longer be as cheap to run such a vehicle.
Having said the, I use a Toyota Vigo 2.5 turbo regularly, and it can get almost 800 km on a full tank (2000ish baht).
2. I also have a benzine-powered SUV and have resisted the temptation to install an LPG conversion. I have seen many people who have had problems with their vehicles - LPG is a gaseous fuel and has no lubricating properties hence burnt valves and damaged valve seats that can lead to engine replacement or at a minimum a head replacement.
Also note that with gasohol (10% ethanol) you get less mileage per full tank. To make up similar mileage compared to what you get on pure benzine, the additional fuel you put in actually costs more that pure benzine...
My SUV has a 2.5 liter benzine engine and I get about 500 km on a full tank (about 2500 baht). Sure it would cost less to run on gas, if you consider just the fill-up-and-go option. Also consider the lost cargo space (something important for me). If you factor in the cost of installation of the LPG conversion kit, it's not worth any consideration on my part.

Note all of the above is a personal opinion and is the stance I take; your opinion may differ.

[Nereus]

LPG is a gaseous fuel and has no lubricating properties hence burnt valves and damaged valve seats that can lead to engine replacement or at a minimum a head replacement. .....Note all of the above is a personal opinion and is the stance I take; your opinion may differ.

It is a falacy that LPG damages engines. ALL modern engines have hardened valve seats and the effect of LPG is no more than that of unleaded petrol. If you have an older car and not sure about the valve seats there is a simple attachment that injects a small amount of lubricant in proportion to the LPG, and only costs a few Baht to run.

My V8 Rover engine has run around 70k Kms on LPG without any problem, or additional lubricant. I could not afford to run this thing on the 95 "Benzine" that it requires.
LPG burns slightly slower, and a bit hotter, than petrol, so the ignition needs to be set up to suit it. For the same car fitted with a diesel engine it works out cheaper running on LPG, even given the good mileage obtainable with modern diesel injection systems.

Ford in Australia sell a car that only runs on LPG, not something a big manufacturer would do if it lead to engine problems.

For after market fitting the loss of cargo space is a real problem. But there are now available better and more compact LPG tanks here that were not approved a few years ago.
LPG is now widely available all around Thailand, which the same cannot be said of CNG / NGV.

NGV / CNG is well proven, but as the tank has to be a lot more substantial because of the much higher pressure, it results in a much smaller capacity, and is really only suitable for "around town" use.

Absolutely nothing wrong with modern high speed diesel engines, if you do not mind driving a tractor!

To a certain extent it depends on just what you are going to use the car for, and if you are looking at a new car, or converting a current one. Different cars will have a different "pay back" period, which should also be considered.

[Terry]

Our 2.4 Honda Accord runs on E85 - a full tank (65 ltr) is usually less than THB 1,500 and I easily get 650+Km from that. (I could get more if I drive it 'eco'). It will also run on E20 or the 95 & 91 gasahols if necessary.

Our 13 yr old 1.7 Honda Civic runs on 95 Gasahol and costs around THB 1,800 to fill getting about 500Km from that - can't remember tank capacity but think it's around 55 ltr.

Our 10yr old 3.0 Chevrolet Colorado runs on diesel and costs around THB 2,000 to fill getting about 450Km around town if lucky. It's going in Part Exchange for a new Captiva with the 2.4 E85 Petrol engine.

If you are buying new here - don't forget that there is also less purchase tax on new cars that can run on E85.

[MovetoHH]

G'day All
I thought I would write an update for anyone looking at this in the future.
In some countries you can buy cars that burn LPG (liquid petroleum gas) from the factory - Australia and GB for example. (It may also be true in Thailand but I did not run across any factory LPG car when I was looking)
CNG (compressed natural gas) and NGV (natural gas for vehicles) are the same thing - based on comments above and advice from friends I did not consider this type of vehicle as we started leaning towards an SUV or pickup early on based on the road condition in and around Hua Hin.
Petrol is very expensive these days, so we went with a diesel as opposed to petrol pickup
Diesel - I've never had one, but a number of friends convinced me to check these out. I did. They are not your dad's diesels anymore. They are quiet, efficient and the pickups handle like cars - very impressed !

I ended up buying the Ford Ranger with the 2.2 diesel in June 2014 (the first ford product I have ever owned - I always bought Japanese cars in the past - Toyota and Hondas). I bought the Ford mainly for it's handling, looks and ride - there was an article from Australia where they rated all the pickups (they have the same ones we have in Thailand). Ford was rated best overall and specifically on handling - I test drove them all and I think they were correct, Ford and it's brother the Mazda did drive exceptionally well. I did not experience much difference from driving my Camry (I did not expect that), my wife agrees.

With the Ford Ranger in general I have to say I have been extremely impressed.

Fuel economy - the major surprise
1) I believe the Ford has an 85 litre tank (when first bought it, with the tank almost dry it took 83 litres)
I have now run this truck about 14,000 kms and here are my observations. On the hiway this truck can go over 1,000 kms - no kidding, I have done it 3 or 4 times so far. The truck has an auto countdown from what it thinks is 80kms left - but when I fill up I can only put in about 77-78 litres - I conclude that countdown is very conservative and it could still go about 80-100 kms when it thinks it could go 20kms (not that I plan to test that theory). I have actually run it up to 1,010 kms and filled it with 77-78 litres about 3 times so far. It could probably do 1,150-1,200 kms on the whole tank with conservative driving.
At 1,000 kms using 77 litres works out to almost 13km per litre (or about 2THB per km) - for a vehicle this size I find that amazing.
2) If I only drive around in Hua Hin (it isn't Bankok, but it is still worth noting) I still get about 800kms.
As you may be aware the price of diesel dropped in early 2015 - the typical cost to fill the truck in 2015 is about 1,900 THB (I use Shell fuel saver diesel).
3) The truck itself hasn't had any problems in it's first 9 months - so it has also been very reliable.

NOTE: I do not, and never have worked for Ford or for Shell - just giving people the benefit of my observations...
The dealer that sold me the truck is also amazed with the fuel economy it gets.
Note - I rarely drive faster than 110 (1,900 revs) and I do not accelerate quickly as a general rule. So I would classify my driving as on the conservative side.

[Big Boy]

Fuel economy - the major surprise
1) I believe the Ford has an 85 litre tank (when first bought it, with the tank almost dry it took 83 litres)
I have now run this truck about 14,000 kms and here are my observations. On the hiway this truck can go over 1,000 kms - no kidding, I have done it 3 or 4 times so far. The truck has an auto countdown from what it thinks is 80kms left - but when I fill up I can only put in about 77-78 litres - I conclude that countdown is very conservative and it could still go about 80-100 kms when it thinks it could go 20kms (not that I plan to test that theory). I have actually run it up to 1,010 kms and filled it with 77-78 litres about 3 times so far. It could probably do 1,150-1,200 kms on the whole tank with conservative driving.
At 1,000 kms using 77 litres works out to almost 13km per litre (or about 2THB per km) - for a vehicle this size I find that amazing.

You're wasting your time with this one MovetoHH. I've told people the same thing several times, but I've basically been accused of lying.

[VincentD]

BB the newer turbo diesels are both powerful and economical when driven with a light foot. I use a Toyota Vigo and have been pleasantly surprised with the economy as long as they are long steady drives at less than 100 kmh. Put your foot down and it goes up dramatically. I also use a Nissan Xtrail 2.5 petrol non-turbo; economy can't compare but I still prefer it as it is very car-like and has a decent high end grunt. Looking at mthh's post re km/liter he gets about 11 whereas I would get 9. The difference is the cost as benzene is a fair amount more than diesel but I find it difficult to live with the pickup suspension (rear leaf springs). The economy is about on par with my old Saab 900 turbo; driven gently it's economical but give it some welly and consumption goes way up. But you just couldn't compare the performance :-) On a side note- I used a Toyota Tiger 3.0 non-turbo diesel once on a regular Bangkok to Rayong route and it cost me more in diesel than the Saab. Performance was abysmal to boot.

[MovetoHH]

G'day All
Perhaps it will help to be a bit more specific - my truck is a 2014 Ford Ranger Double cab XLT 2 wheel drive, auto, Hi Rider, with a carryboy on the back.

Big Boy may be correct that some people may think we have nothing better to do than make up stories about Ford truck fuel economy, if they want to think that, it's up to them...

A quick google search pulled up the stats on a 3.2l diesel 4x4 from Australia that averaged 9.8L/100km on the hiway. To compare I'm getting 7.7L / 100Km Hiway.
Find that here - http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/2014 ... view-41189

From the Ford NZ site - http://www.ford.co.nz/commercials/all-n ... tions/fuel
XLT 2WD Super Cab Wellside, XL 2WD Double Cab Wellside
Combined fuel economy (L/100km) - 8.9 / 8.4
Extra-urban fuel economy (L/100km) - 7.4 / 7.0
Urban fuel economy (L/100km) - 11.6 / 10.8
This shows Ford NZ advertising which is probably best case, but shows some pretty incredible fuel economy 70 litres to go 1000 kms would be pretty amazing - about 10% better than I'm seeing - I should try driving under 100km/hr as suggested in this thread for a long trip and see what happens (if I manage to do that I'll try to add to this post - it would definitely be an interesting experiment).

I wrote my post in the spirit of sharing information that others might find interesting or useful.
At some point someone may do an official study and publish the results...
But in the meantime it sounds like we have both had the similar experience - so that's at least two real world reports...
I can say I wouldn't have believed it either if I had not experienced it myself...

Anyone else with a 2.2 Ford Ranger out there have any experiences to share ?

[STEVE G]

Fuel economy - the major surprise
1) I believe the Ford has an 85 litre tank (when first bought it, with the tank almost dry it took 83 litres)
I have now run this truck about 14,000 kms and here are my observations. On the hiway this truck can go over 1,000 kms - no kidding, I have done it 3 or 4 times so far. The truck has an auto countdown from what it thinks is 80kms left - but when I fill up I can only put in about 77-78 litres - I conclude that countdown is very conservative and it could still go about 80-100 kms when it thinks it could go 20kms (not that I plan to test that theory). I have actually run it up to 1,010 kms and filled it with 77-78 litres about 3 times so far. It could probably do 1,150-1,200 kms on the whole tank with conservative driving.
At 1,000 kms using 77 litres works out to almost 13km per litre (or about 2THB per km) - for a vehicle this size I find that amazing.

You're wasting your time with this one MovetoHH. I've told people the same thing several times, but I've basically been accused of lying.

I've got no problem with that, I think my Vigo has a 73 litre tank and I've had into the 900's off a full tank on long runs.

[MovetoHH]

G'day Big Boy
As you mentioned earlier, the current generation of turbo diesel's do seem to have very good fuel economy, especially when you consider the size and weight of these vehicles. My experience is with Ford but it sounds like the Toyota is also very good in this respect...

[Big Boy]

Yes, I personally find mine a bit of a guzzler around town, but incredible on long journeys. However, I talk to guys on the Ford Ranger UK site, and they don't believe the performance I get either. I actually think that we might just have 2 good performers.