What are your views on the 2nd hand car market?

[VincentD]

I think it's fair, but with some considerations.
I've bought two cars new, and two cars off the secondhand market. Here's my take on the local market.

Most people buying their first new car in Thailand will go for a popular Japanese make that is the market standard.
Topping this list (by brand desirablity) is Honda, followed quite closely by Toyota. The actual car bought will depend on the ability to finance the purchase. Nissan and Mazda trail behind somewhat.

If shopping for a pickup, Toyotas are at the top of the list, with Isuzu coming a close second. Mitsubishi is in a niche market as the Thais see the brand as a 'go-fast' pickup, but with higher maintenance and running costs. Nissan and Mazda trail behind here as well.

European makes are bought by those who can afford them. These are sold off when a newer model takes its place, so many bargains can be found secondhand.

Pickups tend to hold their value here as maintenance is deemed as minimal and affordable. Not so much the cars, as spares for older models get difficult to find once the car is more than four years into the model run.

The Thais will buy a car (or pickup) if they see there is a service center within their area of residence. This is especially so if they are out in the provinces. Brand loyalty plays a part here too. No service center, no sales.

If you want a popular brand name that is the market standard, buy new. If you want something more expensive, the secondhand market is your friend. Note that the expensive and not-as-popular models will usually have dealership servicing records (both the secondhand cars I bought did) and that the prices of these models drop a lot faster than the popular (and cheaper) models.

As always, take your time and shop around. There are deals to be had.

And yes, Coldmike, the floods do have people considering new models as opposed to secondhand before.

[PeteC]

Used-car prices skid on eco-car launches

Published: 18/04/2012 at 02:24 AM
Newspaper section: Business

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/mar ... r-launches

The prices of used cars, trucks and motorcycles will continue to decline in April from March, as automakers resume production after the floods and as more eco-car models are launched, said the country's leading auction organiser, Union Auction.

Managing director Akepittaya Eamkongake said the declines were led by motorcycles, whose prices fell 4.2% in March from February to a range between 19,000 and 23,000 baht.

The main reason was new launches by market leader Honda, prompting used-car dealers to lower their stocks in anticipation of new supplies from auto-leasing companies.

The auction prices of passenger cars fell by 1.7% in March from February.

He said the lower prices were driven by the introduction of the new eco-cars Swift and Mirage.

Toyota and Honda also launched the new Camry and Civic respectively at the Motorshow 2012 this month.

Auto plants hit by last year's floods have gradually reopened their production.

The availability of new cars with attractive promotional packages has reduced demand for used cars.

The prices of passenger cars with 1.3- to 1.5-litre engines are expected to average 229,000 baht a unit in April, while the auction prices of those with 1.6- to 2.0-litre engines may be as low as 231,500-240,000 baht a unit.

As well, one-ton pickup trucks are on the downward trend, with the average auction price down by 1.5% in March compared to February, driven largely by club cab models whose prices fell 4%.

Mr Akepittaya added the prices will continue to fall as leading pickup-truck maker Isuzu has been running at full capacity since the end of March, resulting in its readiness to complete all orders soon.

[thebears]

I would recommend against buying a used car here, unless in exceptional circumstances or unless the warranty still has a reasonably long period of time remaining. The costs of repair can be high for many items if you use the dealer. Also the Japanese cars, whilst being reliable are very weak and easily destructible. They seem to drive like they're tired-out once they're a couple of years old.

I bought a new Camry 2.0E in 2007 when I moved here and I have now covered 180,000 km. I have driven it carefully between Bangkok and Cha-Am but the bad roads have easily caused damage to the suspension. It now drives like a wreck. A significant number of the parts are plastic. It's so cheaply made.

Every time I have it repaired at Toyota in Cha-Am, it costs far more than in UK. Last month the alternator was found to be noisy - they quoted 14,000 THB (285.00 GBP). In UK I could have gone to an after-market retailer and obtained a swap-out alternator.

A year ago I had to replace the air-conditioner unit, which cost 7,000 THB. After they'd replaced it, it still didn't work, so they then replaced the compressor pump, another 14,000 THB. I'd suspected it was the compressor in the first place, because it was vibrating. But, I had difficulty explaining it - my mistake. They tend to fix things by trial-and-error - fine if the car's under warranty though.

The after-sales service is good when the car is under warranty but when it expires, the level of service from the dealer, in my experience at least, changes somewhat.

[chelsea]

I would like this to be an open thread about what you think, from the ridiculous to the reality of the situation, or whatever.

I sure most of us are familiar with the small difference in monetary terms between buying new and buying newly new second hand.

However, what are the pit-falls of accepting a second hand car/pickup here instead of buying new?

I have often thought of buying a second hand luxury car like a Benz etc or sometime similar that will hold it's value generally and lose little over 5 years, but worry about the arse falling-out of the second hand market at some point and everything that is related to that eventuality....any general thoughts on that one folks?

Is this market destined to be like it is now for a long while or are there problems that folks see in the future?

Perhaps, a better question is "Why is it like this in the first place?"

It really all defies reasonable explanation really and any decent explanations are welcome folks.

Sometimes, I'm shocked that a second hand pickup can command 75-80% of it's new price that has done 100Km and is 5 years old plus has probably been thrashed to 'kingdom-come' by previous market owner.

I never really understand why these garages don't just discount a bit to shift the stock....seem strange that the are so unwilling to do this to shift stuff.

I am, of course, open to suggestions of what the answer might be despite these forecourts everywhere being brimming full along the sides of every major road.

A lot of it is to do with the availability of the vehicle being sold (whether it be new or 2nd hand). If it is top of the range model and was hard to get as a new model, the 2nd hand ones will retain their value a lot more than a basic run of the mill model.

If you look at the Pick Up models in Thailand, the top of the range 2 hand models will hold their value well (same as they do here in Australia). This is because not so many are produced and the options and standard fitment are as good as a top of the range passenger vehicle, with the added extra of the pick up body.

They are now a dual purpose model and not just a run of the mill pick up truck.

With passenger vehicles, all European cars hold their value overseas again due to limited availability, so the cycle goes on. Also I think with that from memory overseas production vehicles attract some huge import taxes, so that will also go towards the cost of the vehicles.

It always amazes me when I am in Thailand to see normal local Thai's driving pick ups and 4WD vehicles that would cost ion the region of between 60 to 80,000 AUD. I certainly cannot afford one, how they can afford it on supposedly a lot less wages always has me stumped.

[VincentD]

Thebears
I bought the last two cars off the secondhand market. I am more than happy with the savings over what I would have paid new. Fine, it does not come with a warranty. But if you have a fair amount of knowledge and the car has reasonable mileage and a record of maintenance up to the time of purchase, I don't have a problem with that. A walk around the car will usually indicicate whether the previous owner cared for it or not. If in doubt, just walk away.

All the cars I owned, both from new and secondhand, had preventive maintenance included on top of the standard dealership recommendations. Another thing to remember is that all items on the car do eventually wear out.

The Camry you mention is a base model. I consider the 2 liter engine underpowered for it's weight - not that I'm much of a Toyota fan, but that's a personal opinion. Suspension bits 'n bobs start to give up the ghost after about three years, no matter how carefully it is driven. Tyres last about 40,000 kms or three years max. As company cars, I've driven the previous two 1.8 Corollas (7 years each) and the only thing I have to say about the car is that I find them totally unremarkable. Reliable perhaps, but unremarkable.

I also had a Ford 1.8 Escort (Orion) new from the Thailand 1994 motor show and this was much better in putting down the power and had better fuel consumption than the similar-sized Toyota.
I later got a Saab 900 (turbo) secondhand and only sold it (at 16 years old!) because I could not get 1st party insurance for it anymore. It could still do over 200 kmh with no effort and would blow away most new Japanese cars. No clunks or rattles either. (The other reason was that my son just passed his driving test and he wanted to get his hands on the car. No sane father would give his sibling the keys to a 280+ hp car ... Now maybe my wife *could* let him try out her Almera..)

I now drive a secondhand Nissan X-trail, bought because I wanted some 4WD capability. Looked at Honda CRV but that's basically a FWD and no control over whether 4WD is active or not. The Nissan is definitely not as fast as the Saab, but I can go places with it I couldn't go to in the Saab.
The Nissan is about the same age as your car, bought with about half your mileage and a full service record at the dealership. It was well taken care of, and I've had 30,000 km of trouble-free driving. Just standard oil changes and some preventive maintenance.

I have never had any problems with the dealerships of any of the cars I had, whether new or secondhand. Perhaps being able to speak and read the language helps?

Chelsea
Re the Thais driving nice pickups... They can get an up to seven year loan to pay off the car. Fine, the interest you fork out may put you off, but for them that's the only option. A friend's son is driving a less than two year old Vigo. It has a loan repayment period of six years and comes up to about 10,000 baht per month. He and his fiancee get a combined salary of slightly more than 20,000 baht per month, but are willing to sacrifice half their combined salary so they have something decent to drive.

My two baht worth.....

[Takiap]

I would recommend against buying a used car here, unless in exceptional circumstances or unless the warranty still has a reasonably long period of time remaining. The costs of repair can be high for many items if you use the dealer. Also the Japanese cars, whilst being reliable are very weak and easily destructible. They seem to drive like they're tired-out once they're a couple of years old.

I bought a new Camry 2.0E in 2007 when I moved here and I have now covered 180,000 km. I have driven it carefully between Bangkok and Cha-Am but the bad roads have easily caused damage to the suspension. It now drives like a wreck. A significant number of the parts are plastic. It's so cheaply made.

Every time I have it repaired at Toyota in Cha-Am, it costs far more than in UK. Last month the alternator was found to be noisy - they quoted 14,000 THB (285.00 GBP). In UK I could have gone to an after-market retailer and obtained a swap-out alternator.

A year ago I had to replace the air-conditioner unit, which cost 7,000 THB. After they'd replaced it, it still didn't work, so they then replaced the compressor pump, another 14,000 THB. I'd suspected it was the compressor in the first place, because it was vibrating. But, I had difficulty explaining it - my mistake. They tend to fix things by trial-and-error - fine if the car's under warranty though.

The after-sales service is good when the car is under warranty but when it expires, the level of service from the dealer, in my experience at least, changes somewhat.

While you make a few very valid points, I think you're overlooking a couple of things. If you bought your camry in 2007, that makes it 5 years old now, so if you were in the UK, it probably wouldn't make it through it's yearly MOT without you having to fork out money for repairs. Also, if it's no longer under warranty, why bother using the dealer for all repairs?

I'm also not sure I agree with you about Japanese cars being poor quality. Sure they might not be on a par with mercs and etc, but I can't think of any western made pickup that would be able to compete with Toyota and/or Isuzu.

Also, I think you'll find all new cars have plenty of plastic bits these days, rather than only the Japanese makes. Just wait for the Chinese to start making cars............then we'll see quality.

[chelsea]

I would recommend against buying a used car here, unless in exceptional circumstances or unless the warranty still has a reasonably long period of time remaining. The costs of repair can be high for many items if you use the dealer. Also the Japanese cars, whilst being reliable are very weak and easily destructible. They seem to drive like they're tired-out once they're a couple of years old.

I bought a new Camry 2.0E in 2007 when I moved here and I have now covered 180,000 km. I have driven it carefully between Bangkok and Cha-Am but the bad roads have easily caused damage to the suspension. It now drives like a wreck. A significant number of the parts are plastic. It's so cheaply made.

Every time I have it repaired at Toyota in Cha-Am, it costs far more than in UK. Last month the alternator was found to be noisy - they quoted 14,000 THB (285.00 GBP). In UK I could have gone to an after-market retailer and obtained a swap-out alternator.

A year ago I had to replace the air-conditioner unit, which cost 7,000 THB. After they'd replaced it, it still didn't work, so they then replaced the compressor pump, another 14,000 THB. I'd suspected it was the compressor in the first place, because it was vibrating. But, I had difficulty explaining it - my mistake. They tend to fix things by trial-and-error - fine if the car's under warranty though.

The after-sales service is good when the car is under warranty but when it expires, the level of service from the dealer, in my experience at least, changes somewhat.

While you make a few very valid points, I think you're overlooking a couple of things. If you bought your camry in 2007, that makes it 5 years old now, so if you were in the UK, it probably wouldn't make it through it's yearly MOT without you having to fork out money for repairs. Also, if it's no longer under warranty, why bother using the dealer for all repairs?

I'm also not sure I agree with you about Japanese cars being poor quality. Sure they might not be on a par with mercs and etc, but I can't think of any western made pickup that would be able to compete with Toyota and/or Isuzu.

Also, I think you'll find all new cars have plenty of plastic bits these days, rather than only the Japanese makes. Just wait for the Chinese to start making cars............then we'll see quality.

The Chinese are already at it, here in Australia they are just starting to sell through the dealerships now.
We have the Great Wall (2WD/4WD) Pick up models and just recently the Chery (small hatchback).

Will probably start of with quality compareable to what Hyundai were in the early 90's when they started flooding the market. Fast forward 15 years and the quality of their product is now really good and comparable to most others in the market place.