Living on 1000 baht per day

[Nereus]

HHF I have noticed that during the last few years you have become really despondent about your perceived misfortune, you need to get off your butt and do something about it rather than continually moaning and whining.

Well, I am sure he is not the only one in the same predicament, but he is at least honest about it. Do you suggest that people should throw away maybe several million Baht selling their house? It is very easy to criticise other peoples situation, but unless you know the complete circumstances it is just plain arrogance to make statements like that.

[JAFO]

In most regions home property taxes are based on appx 1 to 1.5% of the homes sale price. So in reality if you buy now you can enjoy much lower property taxes. . This is one of the key reasons I am moving back to California. I can have a quality home on 2 to 5 acres that is mine and I am not checking in every 90 days.

I hope for your sake the decision to return to Cali took the state's ongoing debt crisis into consideration.

Homer,
While this has a distant concern for me, it is ongoing and has been for years and doubt if they will have a functional solution anytime soon. They will not do much in the housing industry. It cannot burden the load. so where while they get it from? I suspect car taxes and registration, fuel taxes,, sales tax etc. So you have to manage it well but its easy to do if you are cognizant about it.

Again maintaining liquidity when you are 50 and up is the smartest thing IMHO. I have little worries about the debt crisis. Right now is the perfect time to buy a home in California (US for the matter). Interest rates at an all time low, Banks have a fast track to sell their properties, hungry realtors everywhere willing to negotiate lower commissions, and you only have to drop 20% down to get in Vs 100% here.

Like I said 10 years back when I first considered a home here the math seemed to work on the most basic level. But then you go beyond the land buy and house build and it all goes sideways quickly and you find that your original dream of a 2mil baht home living on a few hundred baht a day is now a 6 or 7mil baht home and you drop another 500K to Mil baht furnishing it and you are dropping 40 to 60k baht a month to live and sustain it with virtually no chance of employment to supplement your retirement.

I will take my chances with the debt crisis.

[Super Joe]

I'm open for suggestions...

What % over your property's original cost, exchange rates aside, is your current valuation HHF, if it's not too personal a question. Ignore it if it is. +50-60%?.... you could be paying -35% in the U.S. based on a similar timeframe. I'm not suggesting for one minute you should reduce the value below what you value it at, I wouldn't, but just wondering if that could seal your move as they say.

SJ

[hhfarang]

Also the prices you mention, $100 to $250k, these aren't like-for-like properties located a few kms from the coast at popular resort towns are they. These comparisons have been mentioned previously, and when looking at property values in similar locations to Hua Hin, ie: Boca Raton, Florida

SJ, I moved here from Boca Raton, Florida from exactly the same size house as I built here. No I wasn't on or steps from the beach, but it was only a ten minute drive straight down a 4 lane street. The property I have here cost me almost exactly what it would have cost to pay off the mortgage on that home and just stay in place. Yes, my taxes and insurance were significant, but so are my (other) expenses on the property I have here. Other than health care, I think the cost of staying there vs moving here would have been pretty much a wash. In a few more years I'll qualify for Medicare if it still exists so that wouldn't be an issue any more.

As I've said many times, it's more of "where you are happy" than anything else. If you love the climate here and can afford to travel and keep your sports and hobbies, you'll be happy here. Maybe Americans just want more out of life. Look around you. How many people from the U.S. do you see living here vs folks from the U.K. or Scandinavia... there are obvious reasons for the differences in those numbers that a lot of you would never understand.

SJ, to address your later post, we would accept about 30% over the original cost of the property right now but that will keep dropping each high season until I find a buyer. I'm not desperate yet and the property has been valued by two of the better estate companies in town at well above what we are asking. The problem here is that most people have to come up with cash so while it may be easy to sell a home in the 5m and under range, a home in the 10m and over is much more difficult. You just have to find the right buyer. A neighbor with a home half the size of mine and land half the size of mine sold his home recently for the price we would accept, but it took him four years to find a buyer. According to recent sales in the area, an unimproved land plot the size of ours should be worth around 9m even if there was nothing on it but weeds.

[dozer]

HHF I meant no harm with my post, as I have said previously I admire your honesty.
Here in HH selling a 10M Baht house is certainly not easy these days, and only you can decide how much you are prepared to sacrifice to improve your situation.
I have an American friend, who retired here, not HH, 10 years ago and he downsized 2 years ago and it seemed to give him a real jolt and reenergised him.
You need to think positively and I am sure soon enough things will start to turn around for you and you may even be able to rekindle your dream.

[JAFO]

Although this thread has gone off tangent as most do it is still offers value. I also wanted to add a couple of other comments. Firstly I may come across as bashing Thailand and quite honestly I am not. I have enjoyed a lot of what Thailand has to offer but I will not blindly sit by and agree with all the rose colored glasses crowd. Secondly what I have found over my years is that many UK folk love to comment about back when an American posts. I make a point to never dispute what a UK citizen may say about what it is like to live there and the conditions. Conversely it is also a bit arrogant for those same posters to try and compare US living with UK living then compare to Thailand. It appears that moving to Thailand from the UK(Based on all the comments) it is a huge upgrade. Moving from the US to Thailand is not. Simple as that. What you give up to move to Thailand is significant. It does not hit you for awhile but it does eventually. On a very basic level there is simply too much friction in everyday transactions and no real way to insulate yourself from it. Most Americans living full time here after a short period of time find they are "putting" up with life rather then enjoying it. If you have not lived in America you cannot possibly understand this.

On a side note for the guys that live here 1 or 2 months out of each year you have a clearly tainted point of view. IMHO you have a very limited scope of how it all works and goes and the hidden things that sneak up on you. About the time it all starts to surround you, you are on a plane back home.

10 years back when the baht was 40+ and the US was falling off its giant horse Thailand was the dream place to take your money and bail out as was the Philippines. Fast forward to now and it simply is not(I speak as an American). To you UK folks this still may be a steal. I have no idea.

[dtaai-maai]

I think what you're effectively saying, JAFO, is that most US citizens are only just beginning to realise that the good times really are gone for good. With one or two brief periods of self-delusion, that has been pretty clear to most Europeans since the end of World War II.

Some (the Scandinavian countries, and Norway in particular) have prepared better than others. The US seems simply to be digging its hole faster and faster.



The "upgrade" for most Brits is the weather. To borrow a phrase, if you haven't lived in the UK, you cannot possibly understand this (particularly if you come from California!).

[Siani]

Conversely it is also a bit arrogant for those same posters to try and compare US living with UK living then compare to Thailand. It appears that moving to Thailand from the UK(Based on all the comments) it is a huge upgrade. Moving from the US to Thailand is not. Simple as that. What you give up to move to Thailand is significant.
Most Americans living full time here after a short period of time find they are "putting" up with life rather then enjoying it. If you have not lived in America you cannot possibly understand this.

Have you lived in the UK JAFO? Are your comments just based on what you have read in papers etc? You say " compare US living with UK living" Is that based on experience? You say "Most Americans living full time here after a short period of time find they are "putting" up with life rather then enjoying it.".....so are you on your way back to the USA or are you putting up with it?

Thailand for me is a place I like. I do not wish to live there 100% of the time though as there is not enough there for me to do. When I retired, Mr S & I did try it for 3 months+ to see if we could settle there full time. We thought after this period of time just to come out when we could and have a small base there, our main home would be in the UK.
I find I appreciate Thailand more when I come there twice a year. I also like the freedom to go to other places. I can understand why a lot of expats want to live there full time...golf, sun, exotic food but to name just a few. I think we are all different, so as they say "horses for courses".

BTW, we could live there on 1000 baht a day if we had to

[STEVE G]

Look around you. How many people from the U.S. do you see living here vs folks from the U.K. or Scandinavia... there are obvious reasons for the differences in those numbers that a lot of you would never understand.

I imagine the fact that most Americans don't even have a passport to see anywhere else might have some bearing on the matter.

[JAFO]

Thanks for everyone's candid and informative posts. I do enjoy reading them to further understand life here.

Although I could go and cut and paste quote after quote(and in some cases take things out of context) I wont. I think a few of you misunderstood my post.

I am saying that I find it interesting when a poster from the US comes on and says that it is a step backward in the long run to live here from what the US has to offer that invariably UK people(who have never lived in the US) tend to butt in like they know and defend Thailand vehemently. No I have never lived in UK which is why I stated that for you UK folks moving here maybe it is a huge upgrade, I have no idea. My jest was I do not post when a UK says "He loves it here and its the best place in the world etc etc". Maybe what he left behind in the UK to move here is significant, again no idea.

What I am saying is that I personally feel what you give up to live here is to steep if you lived in the US. With 45 years under my belt in the US I feel pretty confident in saying this. And Yes I have had a passport since I was 12 and have traveled and lived abroad other than Thailand . Honestly there may be a good reason why people in the US do not have passports and why so many people want to go live there

In the end there are some really hard negatives to life in Thailand that just cannot be balanced out. I speak comparing this to the US, nowhere else. Again maybe for UK folks or others this is a far better system. I will completely admit that being born and raised in California has a huge impact on my opinion about Thailand. I am glad I came and lived here full time and saw first hand and did not read about it, sell my life away, hop a plane and land all glossy eyed because some web poster says "Man what a country you can live for 100 or 1000 baht a day and there are women that will just love you for you". I have found that most web forums are heavily jaded.

Thailand is a great vacation destination and not much more.

[STEVE G]

...which is why I stated that for you UK folks moving here maybe it is a huge upgrade, I have no idea.

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that the UK, along with much of Northern Europe, has a miserably damp, windy and wet climate that most people want to escape from when it comes to vacation and retirement. Far more people go to Spain and other Mediterranean destinations, and indeed Florida, than go to SE Asia.

[chopsticks]

...which is why I stated that for you UK folks moving here maybe it is a huge upgrade, I have no idea.

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that the UK, along with much of Northern Europe, has a miserably damp, windy and wet climate that most people want to escape from when it comes to vacation and retirement. Far more people go to Spain and other Mediterranean destinations, and indeed Florida, than go to SE Asia.

That's correct and many who bought properties in Spain now regret it.

They have fallen victim to unscrupulous property developers and estate agents, a property bubble that burst leaving them with unsaleable villas and apartments often built with incorrect land ownership and local building permission paperwork.

To compound the misery interest rates fell on savings accounts to yield a fraction of returns obtained a few years ago and the cost of living there has increased dramatically.
The Sterling / Euro exchange rate hasn't helped either.

[hhfarang]

It boils down to this. There are basically three types of people posting here regardless of where they came/come from.

1. Part timers who spend anywhere from a few weeks to three months out of the year here. If I was in that category I would have no complaints. I was coming to Thailand for over 20 years before I moved here and I loved it as a place to visit.

2. Younger people who live here full time but have jobs and still have the possibility of earning money and pay raises as the cost of living goes up. I could probably handle that as well if I earned enough for a decent vacation elsewhere or back to the U.S. at least once a year.

3. The third category is people like me; retired on a lifetime fixed income. That is the toughest way to live here unless you got a nice golden parachute upon retirement which I certainly did not. Those are the people who may find themselves in trouble financially or unhappy with the lifestyle after a few years as the noose tightens around their necks when the savings have shrunk, the cost of living has increased, and the exchange rate has gone very negative. Having stupidly sold out in the home country and moved here with great expectations they often find themselves years later trapped with great regrets instead.

That's correct and many who bought properties in Spain now regret it.

They have fallen victim to unscrupulous property developers and estate agents, a property bubble that burst leaving them with unsaleable villas and apartments often built with incorrect land ownership and local building permission paperwork.

To compound the misery interest rates fell on savings accounts to yield a fraction of returns obtained a few years ago and the cost of living there has increased dramatically.

I think you could substitute Hua Hin for Spain in that comment and not be far wrong.

Anyway, we've drifted far off topic and the original poster has gotten so bored he's left the thread to us entirely. Just as a reminder the original post was:

...Supposing you were a single male....with only an occasional girlfriend and not a punter lifestyle.... and after Rent, hydro, internet and tier 2 health insurance was paid, no car but a mountain bike.... could an expat in HH live on 1000 bhat per day...?....and if he could...would it be a meager existence... ?

And my original answer was a positive one:

He said after rent, hydro (water? or electric?), internet, and health insurance... so I guess he's only talking about food, drink, non-food consumables (paper, cleaning supplies, etc.), cell phone bill, gas for his bike, and entertainment. If you keep entertainment (girls) and drinking (alcohol) to a minimum and do not expect to travel much, I believe that is easily doable. That (30k to 35k) is about what two of us spend on food, drink, entertainment, and non-food consumables each month. We don't go out much but I do drink a lot at home. The only other item that you didn't mention is TV. If you watch that a lot and want a good TrueVisions package that will cost another 2k per month.

[Frog]

I live on 500 baht a day and JAFO pays the rest, I really appreciate your retirement benefits mate! A little pinch from the penny banks is all you really need to keep your 60 year old smile from turning upside down, at least for me I never lost my dentures........yet

[dtaai-maai]

Anyway, we've drifted far off topic and the original poster has gotten so bored he's left the thread to us entirely. Just as a reminder the original post was:...

Actually the thread has died a couple of natural deaths already, only to be dragged kicking and screaming back to life.

This topic is doomed to crop up forever, I fear, in one form or another. A bit pointless, really, in the grand scheme of things, because as we all know by now, one man's shoe box is another man's mansion. It's all horses for courses.