England - The best in the world already!

[Guess]

My response to Pete on the long faces statement quote is below. I thought that continuing to talk about Soccer on a topic on crossword puzzles could be considered "off topic"

As for Rio (and the rest of Brasil) and England there will be some sad faces today. Both countries did all that could be expected of them. England usually ranked between 15 and 8 got to the last eight but were let down by two of their super stars being off form and the limited use of the talented and energetic youngsters that are the future of their game. England never seems to learn from the past. I can quite easily see the sloth Neville reaching the next world cup. Additionally the tactics of the FA of using a coach that had already been fired makes you wonder if Big Boy's suspicions are founded and that the English FA are indeed controlled by Italy.

As for Brasil, South American teams have only ever won once in Europe (and that was against Sweden the hosts in 1958) so why anybody expected them to win this time, I don't know. I did however think that they would maybe get to the final before being beaten.

Despite all the whinging and criticism, the last four just happen to be four of the best five teams in Europe.

As for other comments so far this is my useless, off the cuff, ill prepared, bigoted and biased opinion.

Whereas the faith in your nation's ability which extends way beyond the realism of attainable achievements of the supported country are generally good especially when it comes to sport, it has to be concluded that England reached their natural position in the tournament based on the skills and form of the chosen squad and must go back to the drawing board if they wish to succeed in the forthcoming European Championships.

As I have said before many of the successful nations have 100% patriotic support for their country. Avid supporters must do much more for the team’s moral than the constant whinging and criticism that seems to be an English trait. So well done to Wanderlust and Big Boy for your focused and loyal support for your team. If there were more like you than maybe one day England could become another Italy, France or Germany.

As for the penalty issue and bad refereeing I will take them one at a time as they are in no way related.

Penalties to decide the outcome of a match has never been and never will be an acceptable method of deciding the outcome of a game. There is plenty of other much more intelligent ways of making decisions that should be adopted. My favorite method would be to adopt a scoring system based on points for various achievements and deductions for negative actions. This system would use a combination of throw ins goal kicks, corners, possession, shots on goal, fouls (with different levels) and I am sure there are many other factors.

To take this a step further and attempt to reduce the number of games that end in a draw and to ensure that the better side wins is to change the regular point system completely, (Rugby Style). A suggestion without any thought going into it would be goal 5 points, own goal or contacted but failed missed save by goal keeper 4 points, free kick goal 3 points, penalty goal two points. This system could be used in normal time and if a draw is reached the secondary system could be brought into use. The only analogy, although not a good one I can thinks of is in boxing. If one guy knocks the other guy out or causes so much damage that the referee or the fighters own camp pull him out, then the opponent wins. If they go the distance and are both still in the ring fighting at the last bell a panel of judges determines the winner based on points scored during the contest.

Now for refereeing. It is crap. We all know that. It always has been, and unless steps are taken today (well tomorrow as today is Sunday) it will continue. It relies on only one man on the pitch with assistants off the pitch but the man on the pitch has the last word. The problems with this system are obvious and have been proven fallible on numerous occasions including this world cup tournament.

The time for technology is now. If they can’t do it I can. FIFA should start an English speaking project tomorrow to discuss the implementation. That means how to go about it not if it should be done. The cost of designing, testing, and implementing in every ground used in Germany would be less than the fee that Bayern Munich charged Chelsea for a midfielder.

[Guess]

Guess,

Apologies, but your e-mail service won't accept the truth. You'll just have to imagine what the video clip would have said:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

xxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com

E-mail address edited.

Same address except yahoo.com. I ditched hotmail one year ago amongst many issues at the time with the pile of crap. I don't know why HHAD showed the wrong address. I must have mistyped or my submission failed.

BTW On the subject of typos, you have missed a zero after the 4 on your signature.

[Bamboo Grove]

By the way 33 % got the correct answer on this poll.

[Harry]

I just voted and was correct in my prediction. *Hopes the BBC is monitoring this thread & are in need of another pundit*

[PeteC]

My response to Pete on the long faces statement quote is below. I thought that continuing to talk about Soccer on a topic on crossword puzzles could be considered "off topic"

What you said...LOL. But crossword, both as a noun and a verb, may be appropriate for this game of "football".

PS: I've also inserted my 2 florins into the flood/deforestation thread.

PPS: If France prevails in all of this, I'm going to launch the schooners, old text, not new. Pete

[JimmyGreaves]

Bamboo Grove wrote:

I think the team isn't that great that it should win the world cup.

There wasn't anybody at the tournament good enough to beat England.

Only Portugal, they have 100% record. England were abysmall all the way through the competition for the past 12 years that I remember they cannot hold on to the ball.
Please explain yourself, what constitutes a great footballing team?

England 60s Brazil of the 70s Holland & Germany 70s,

Surely, you don't believe a kids party game of one-on-one kicking the ball at the goal warrants being sent home from the world's premier footballing tournament.

Yes, Rules are Rules. Probably be singing a differnet tune if the boot was on the other foot

I don't just mean England - any team.

To lose and be sent home is a lot easier to take. To lose on a farce at the end of 120 minutes is a much harder thing to accept. England must have been sent home unbeaten from more tournaments than any other.

So what, you get what you deserve. They had an easy qualification and easy world cup run and blew it. The writing was on the wall when Northern Ireland beat them in the qualifiers.

I'm sure if Carragher had managed to score his second equaliser, the ref would have found another excuse to make him take it again, and again until he missed.

Probably to drunk to have watched the game in detail. The ref told every kick to wait for the whistle, even Carragher admited he was too impetous. The keeper never moved because he knew Carragher jumped the gun.

Next time I think England should be a bit more humble (Again they have an easy qualifying group), cut out all the bragging, admit that they are not the best, give other teams alot more respect, play as a team and not individual primadonnas, get a decent Manager!

Nice to see that the fans enjoyed and behaved themselves.

Slainte

[Jockey]

By the way 33 % got the correct answer on this poll.

I started this poll and expected a flood of unsubstantiated and illogical optimism as the tournaments start date got closer and as the tournament progressed. I have to admit I have been susprised by the mostly logical comments and level headed analysis. Yes there were a few over-the-top optimistic comments, but that of course is understandable and fun.

England, as I said in my original post, would be punching above their ability to reach the last 8. A lucky draw helped them to reach the stage where their ability merited. After the group stages I always thought the last 4 would be Italy, Germany, Portugal and France. I thought the absence of Deco might actually swing it in England's favour to reach the semis. It nearly did. The first half was 50/50 but the whole of the second half up to the Roony sending off saw England in the ascendancy and the most likely to score.

Bad luck England yet again. On the positive side you have now got rid of Sven the Imposter. How stupid of the FA to lose out on either Scolari or O'Neill for that dumpling McLaran (sacked recently by Middlesborough).

The only way England will win the world cup again is if they get to host it again.

[Toni]

Penalties to decide the outcome of a match has never been and never will be an acceptable method of deciding the outcome of a game. There is plenty of other much more intelligent ways of making decisions that should be adopted. My favorite method would be to adopt a scoring system based on points for various achievements and deductions for negative actions. This system would use a combination of throw ins goal kicks, corners, possession, shots on goal, fouls (with different levels) and I am sure there are many other factors.

I just can't see something like that taking off Guess. The worldwide popularity of football is due in no small part to its simplicity. Whilst I agree penalty shoot outs are not the most pleasant way of going out of a competition, they are actually down to footballing skill - kicking the ball between the goalposts into the net. Yes there is a great deal of pressure on the taker, but so there is on the person who takes one in normal time. It's usually the 10% up top that separates the great sportsmen from the very good. It all comes down to bottle, doesn't it?

[PeteC]

Yes there is a great deal of pressure on the taker, but so there is on the person who takes one in normal time.

My thought from sports I've participated in and watched, is that in the heat of active competition, a shot, pass, throw, hit comes instinctively to professional sportsmen in the heat of action. Slow them down and make them pretend they are shooting at ducks at a carnival midway and they are lost.

I don't think it's fair to them as pros, or to any team sport game to end a competition this way.

Look at us Yanks, NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, they play extra periods until it is over, or everyone drops dead trying. Pete

[Jaime]

Slow them down and make them pretend they are shooting at ducks at a carnival midway and they are lost.

I don't think it's fair to them as pros, or to any team sport game to end a competition this way.

Yeah, let's take all that pressure off them, they are only being paid 100,000 pounds a week after all!

Please tell me you are kidding Pete!

[Guess]

I just can't see something like that taking off Guess. The worldwide popularity of football is due in no small part to its simplicity. Whilst I agree penalty shoot outs are not the most pleasant way of going out of a competition, they are actually down to footballing skill - kicking the ball between the goalposts into the net. Yes there is a great deal of pressure on the taker, but so there is on the person who takes one in normal time. It's usually the 10% up top that separates the great sportsmen from the very good. It all comes down to bottle, doesn't it?

A valid point I think but I am not very familiar withe the history of the game but I am fairly sure that the offside rule was not introduced for the first soccer match and the rules like most sports have evolved.

I am not suggesting radical changes immediately that effect the game and make it too complicated. When changes are introduced gradually towards a desire goal I do not believ the world interest in soccer wil wane. The big step as far as scoring is concerned big be the largest change. At first it should only be applied in the event of a draw after extra time to replace penalties which are luck as much as anything else. A change to a points system during normal time could be introduced gradually of it were found that too many draws resulted.

Many sports constantly change rules without losing popularity, in fact the opposite is usually true. Formula 1 motor car racing has rule changes every season and is rapidly gaining poularity. Rugby Union has had at least three different scoring systems in my life time and is also gaining in popularity. Tennis however that has very simple rules that need no change is waning and has seen its peak already.

As for introduction of technology is concerned there is no need to affect the game in most instances so the change would be seamless and transparent to the spectator and even the players. The referees and linesmen could be informed of certain situations without anybody else being aware. The outcome though is that the decision would be infinitely more accurate. It only takes milliseconds at the most to inform the referee if a ball has passed over a line and exactly where it passsed the line if necessary.

Other things like diving and play acting would be difficult to decide on the spot but could be dealt with after the match anyway in some cases.

I appreciate that in a knockout match those luxuries may not be available.

Ther was mention by someone that pressure on penalty takers is no different in normal time form that in a penalty shoot out. This is misleading and not accurate.

In a penalty shoot out the outcome of the match is always at stake and is aleays used in a knockout compettiton.

Different players must be used. In normal time the same guy can be used as many times as needed.

One team maybe be so far ahead that the penalty will have little relevance on the outcome of the game.

Statisics show that roughly 4 out of 5 (or even more in some countries), penalties are converted in normal time. In penalty shoot outs it is more like 2.5 out of 5. Obviously something is radically different. In at least two case in this tournament the first choice penalty taker missed the penalty. These were by Lampard and Shevchenko. Neither of the player seemed prepared for the task despite the fact that it would be highly likely in both cases that they woiuld be called on to take a penalty.

The one thing that will kill off soccer will be by not making changes.

The starting place should be the use of technology that has no effect on the continuity of the game. Major International competitions are held every two years and every year at club level. A lot could be achieved in ten years but FIFA needs to start now.

[lomuamart]

Beckham's resigned as captain although he says he still wants to play if selected. Apparantly, he was going to do this at the end of the competitiion anyway.
Can't copy the article.

[NicFrenchy]

To take this a step further and attempt to reduce the number of games that end in a draw and to ensure that the better side wins is to change the regular point system completely, (Rugby Style). A suggestion without any thought going into it would be goal 5 points, own goal or contacted but failed missed save by goal keeper 4 points, free kick goal 3 points, penalty goal two points. This system could be used in normal time and if a draw is reached the secondary system could be brought into use.

Come now.... next thing you know, they'll be given points for hitting the Ball over the Crossbar
Football is not Rugby.

In my opinion, the Issue is not with the scoring, points or Penalty kicks. The first thing this game needs is accurate Refereeing.
Fifa Officials refuse to see the obvious : the pace of the game is not the same as 20 years ago, the Players are faster, more athletic, meaner, dirtier, they try and use all the tricks in the Book to win the game.
One Referee (and 2 assistants that can't see shit most of the time) cannot efficiently deal with this.

Now I don't know if the Video should be brought in, but they have to do something to prevent referee's mistakes from spoiling a game.

[HansMartin]

I agree with Pete (aka prcsscct). TEAMS work years to get to this point, & THEY play for the championship. Then it comes down to one person (the goalie). I say just flip a coin; either that or keep playing until someone scores a goal.

[PeteC]

Slow them down and make them pretend they are shooting at ducks at a carnival midway and they are lost.

I don't think it's fair to them as pros, or to any team sport game to end a competition this way.

Yeah, let's take all that pressure off them, they are only being paid 100,000 pounds a week after all!

Please tell me you are kidding Pete!

No, seriously Jamie. Look at what the USA pros get paid, in some cases it's 1 million USD or more per game. Above I didn't mention sudden death, meaning the first team who scores in extra time, it's over, the period and match stops there. Also, what does FIFA allow a full squad to be, two full teams or 22 players? If so, up it to 30 and also allow people who have been substituted out of the match to return at anytime. Pete