I have written a thread before on this subject on the phuket-info board amongst all the hawkers /vendors in los the ones who truly grip my sh-t are the flower sellers for 3 reasons
1) I DONT WANT FLOWERS
2) THE THAI GIRLS DONT WANT FLOWERS
3) EVEN WHEN YOU ARE SITTING ALONE OR WITH AOTHER GUY WHY DO THEY STILL COME IN TRYING TO SELL YOU FLOWERS
i have to say that in my experience the flower sellers in hua hin are the most annoying in thailand there is a particular family of kids who just refuse to take no for an answer there is one particular girl of about 14/15 who just wont go until you either buy or lose your temper and get angry
they should not be allowed to enter any bar and annoy the customers once you are outside its a free world .
Flower sellers
The aggressive approach of the kids in Hua Hin is a factor of the pressure put on them by their Fagan like handlers. The fact that the police allow it to go on and profit from it against the express wishes of HM The Queen even tho it is harming the kids and damaging the tourist trade is a fine example of the modern TRT style of management - not caring about any one or anything apart from the ruthless pursuit of personal financial gain. I would like to see the handlers breaking rocks in a chain gang along with those who receive the kickbacks to allow the illegal business (making children work in the evening is illegal under the Labour Code) after making them pay all back taxes assessed for the years they have been doing it. 
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rosievictoria
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- Location: aystralia
flower sellers
Talbotman and Beguine
You have both said all the right things.
But we all seem to be going around in circles on this matter.
Who is the group that runs beach clean ups and was going to supply all houses in Hua Hin with a septic toilet?.
Maybe just maybe they would like to take on the challenge and instead of cleaning up the beach clean up the flower sellers instead.
I don't car how cute they are they are pests and worse still if they steal your wallets/purses and mobile phones
Maybe an article in the newspaper would get home to the powers above that foreigners are sick of flower sellers and it's not good for the tourist trade.
Here's hoping
rosievictoria
You have both said all the right things.
But we all seem to be going around in circles on this matter.
Who is the group that runs beach clean ups and was going to supply all houses in Hua Hin with a septic toilet?.
Maybe just maybe they would like to take on the challenge and instead of cleaning up the beach clean up the flower sellers instead.
I don't car how cute they are they are pests and worse still if they steal your wallets/purses and mobile phones
Maybe an article in the newspaper would get home to the powers above that foreigners are sick of flower sellers and it's not good for the tourist trade.
Here's hoping
rosievictoria
I can't help but think that the average farang here wants to cleanse HH of all the things they find distasteful!
I don't think some evangelical campagn against the problems of corrupt, mafia orgainsed flower sellers, with the obvious huge profits it makes compared to running, clubs, bars, protection etc is really the biggest issue facing HH!
Its just part of the reality, if you can't live with it, move on.
I don't think some evangelical campagn against the problems of corrupt, mafia orgainsed flower sellers, with the obvious huge profits it makes compared to running, clubs, bars, protection etc is really the biggest issue facing HH!
Its just part of the reality, if you can't live with it, move on.
Talk is cheap
Rosievictoria and Caller, you are right it is easy to just sit and winge about things that are really irritating and exploitive. Maybe some well placed letters would help as you say, particularly given the Queen's earlier interest in the matter. I remember a few years ago that some well placed letters I saw in the HH Observer, Bkk Post and The Nation may have helped clear up the problem of male caddies with police protectors stealing money from tourists' golf bags at Royal Hua Hin and threatening those who reported them with knives etc. Some foreign tour operators cancelled their whole season's bookings of green fees after hearing about the problem and eventually at least one caddy who turned out to have a prior record went to jail for a few years and several were sacked and the manager replaced. If you play golf, you will notice there are only a few male caddies left there now.
And there was a thread recently about other services these new female caddies might provide? What goes around comes around. There is always someone on the make.
A big issue in the UK is kids being expolited in sweatshops in Thailand and other places by the big manufactuers, but it keeps the prices down.......and no-one really gives any thought to what would happen to those people if such places were shut down.
Jusgt go with the flow.
A big issue in the UK is kids being expolited in sweatshops in Thailand and other places by the big manufactuers, but it keeps the prices down.......and no-one really gives any thought to what would happen to those people if such places were shut down.
Jusgt go with the flow.
Talk is cheap
Last week, I saw for myself a flower seller no more than 3 or 4 years old get smacked around right in the middle of Soi Bintahbaht, by a shirtless man who appeared to be his father and was obviously under the influence. The kid was sobbing and forced to get back to work.Jockey wrote:Having read the posts on this thread I have to say a lot of it in my opinion is hearsay, rumour and prejudice. There is no "Hidden Mafia" in Hua Hin. If there was I am sure they would be turning their attention to more sinister activities than flower selling! Noone knows whether the "minders" are looking out for the children or are going to "beat them up" if they don't sell enough, so why mention it? . . .
Without wanting to elaborate any futher, from my own experiences over the past few years, I'm pretty sure the "Hidden Mafia" is dressed in brown and/or camoflage.
Appreciate your kind thoughts!Beguine wrote:Just hope you never get your wallet or phone stolen by a flower seller, Caller, or get stabbed by a caddie whose cousin turns out to be a policeman and says it was your fault.
Having had a wallet stolen many years ago in another country, I now don't carry one, the phone is small and sits in the front trouser pocket, so if they have a go at that, they could be in for a surprise and as I don't play golf either I should be okay!!!!
Buit seriously, how big an issue is it??? What about the others that tour the bars flogging maps or whatever??
I just don't see it as being such a big deal!!!
A bigger concern for me is the increase in new (?)ex-pat posts saying I don't like this or that, so I want to change it, I'm here now!
The originators of this forum and the mods don't seem to rant in this way, so I guess there's a change in the types that are re-locating there? Other forums have this as well - poor access to the beach, hate the piers, rip them down, no promenade, etc.
I hate it all!
Sorry.
Talk is cheap
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Guess
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- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
I agree entirely. I have already posted on this subject but the recent posters have obviously missed it or chosen to ignore it.caller wrote: A bigger concern for me is the increase in new (?)ex-pat posts saying I don't like this or that, so I want to change it, I'm here now!
The originators of this forum and the mods don't seem to rant in this way, so I guess there's a change in the types that are re-locating there? Other forums have this as well - poor access to the beach, hate the piers, rip them down, no promenade, etc.
I hate it all!
Sorry.
There is no Mafia in Hua Hin or indeed anywhere in Thailand.
As someone said earlier, if there was I think they would be dealing with more serious things than flowers.
Also I know many (probably most) of the street sellers personally. They are all different. None of them work fo a single boss. Most of them are freelance and vary in age and status. Some are annoying and some are not. The reason why places like the Itsara allow them in is not to do with fear or any pressure but due to the fact they they are not told that the majority of farang visitors don't welcome them.
Any retaurant or bar has the liberty to ban anybody they wish from their establishment whether they are Thai of Farang owned.
Nobody likes to see child labour but I do not know of any local kids that have been forced into the job. Often it's just that kids are better at it than adults.
The guy in Soi Binterbaht (and other Sois) who chastises his child in public whilst drunk is known to the Police and to the local decent Thai community. It's just that he has not been caught in the act yet.
It is only a matter of time though before he is and then I would not like to be in his shoes.
If anybody sees an incident like this take a photo and report it to the tourist police. You need not fear any repercussions as even the mythical Mafia in Hua Hin would never support Child abuse.
Or a more general level I prefer to live in a country where people will get up of their arses and do something to earn money rather than sign on the dotted line and claim somone else's hard earned wages.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
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Wanderlust
- Legend
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- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
I can't believe I'm reading this!Beguine wrote:Just hope you never get your wallet or phone stolen by a flower seller, Caller, or get stabbed by a caddie whose cousin turns out to be a policeman and says it was your fault.
I have been known to be critical of many aspects of life in Thailand but this is complete and utter over the top scaremongering - or should I wear my kevlar jacket if I decide to go for a round of golf? Being stabbed by well-connected caddies seems to be a common event if this post is anything to go by!
Flower sellers are everywhere in Thailand and if you don't have the knack of getting rid of them they can be annoying but to suggest they are part of some powerful organised mafia network is just, well, words fail me. As Guess posted - if they were being used by the mafia they would be working in a sweatshop or trading something far more lucrative than a few flowers.
Be firm with the flower sellers and they will go away. If you need to be stern then be stern. If you need to joke then joke but they'll soon get the message. They are KIDS for Christ's sake!
A nine-year-old girl who had been forced by her father to sell garlands at a Bangkok intersection to support the family was run over and killed by a six-wheel truck on Monday evening.
Police found the body of Ananya "Lee" Meunsuwan, a second-grader at Wat Phya Yang School, at Teuk Chai intersection in Phya Thai district at 6pm. She had suffered fatal head injuries.
Her parents, Bualoy and Umaporn Meunsuwan, were standing beside her crying.
The truck driver, Chom Hanphum, 30, who waited for police at the scene, said he was taking construction workers to the Sri Yan area when he felt the rear wheels run over something. He pulled up and saw Lee underneath the truck. Police charged Chom with reckless driving causing death.
Witnesses from the neighbourhood said Lee was forced to sell flowers to pay for her schooling and get money for her parents who did not want to work.
Ramathibodi Hospital's Forensic Medicine and Corpse Examination Unit yesterday handed over Lee's body to her parents who then took her to a funeral ceremony at Wat Khae Nang Lerng.
Relatives said Bualoy had forced Lee to sell flowers every evening until 8pm and on weekends since she was seven. She was supposed to meet a sales target or she would face a beating. Bualoy was often seen assaulting Lee at the intersection in front of others because she had asked for a break to play with other children or do homework, they said.
Social Development and Human Security Ministry permanent secretary Wallop Ploytaptim said the ministry heard about Lee two years ago and had taken her into state custody. But her parents asked for her to be returned home so they could send her to school.
Wallop said the ministry had given money to 120 families at a community near Yommarat railway line to start their own businesses but about 20 families, including Lee's, still put the lives of their children in danger by making them sell flowers and garlands at intersections. They believed children were able to sell more because people felt sorry for them.
The ministry warned the families in April last year and put them on probation, he said. Now it was considering separating the children so they could attend school and provide the parents with vocational training as a long-term solution.
Wallop said he would consult city police and the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration to apply the Child Protection Act to punish parents who endanger their children by forcing them to sell things at intersections. The parents could be fined up to Bt30,000 or jailed for three months. Motorists who buy from children at intersections could also be punished.
Police found the body of Ananya "Lee" Meunsuwan, a second-grader at Wat Phya Yang School, at Teuk Chai intersection in Phya Thai district at 6pm. She had suffered fatal head injuries.
Her parents, Bualoy and Umaporn Meunsuwan, were standing beside her crying.
The truck driver, Chom Hanphum, 30, who waited for police at the scene, said he was taking construction workers to the Sri Yan area when he felt the rear wheels run over something. He pulled up and saw Lee underneath the truck. Police charged Chom with reckless driving causing death.
Witnesses from the neighbourhood said Lee was forced to sell flowers to pay for her schooling and get money for her parents who did not want to work.
Ramathibodi Hospital's Forensic Medicine and Corpse Examination Unit yesterday handed over Lee's body to her parents who then took her to a funeral ceremony at Wat Khae Nang Lerng.
Relatives said Bualoy had forced Lee to sell flowers every evening until 8pm and on weekends since she was seven. She was supposed to meet a sales target or she would face a beating. Bualoy was often seen assaulting Lee at the intersection in front of others because she had asked for a break to play with other children or do homework, they said.
Social Development and Human Security Ministry permanent secretary Wallop Ploytaptim said the ministry heard about Lee two years ago and had taken her into state custody. But her parents asked for her to be returned home so they could send her to school.
Wallop said the ministry had given money to 120 families at a community near Yommarat railway line to start their own businesses but about 20 families, including Lee's, still put the lives of their children in danger by making them sell flowers and garlands at intersections. They believed children were able to sell more because people felt sorry for them.
The ministry warned the families in April last year and put them on probation, he said. Now it was considering separating the children so they could attend school and provide the parents with vocational training as a long-term solution.
Wallop said he would consult city police and the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration to apply the Child Protection Act to punish parents who endanger their children by forcing them to sell things at intersections. The parents could be fined up to Bt30,000 or jailed for three months. Motorists who buy from children at intersections could also be punished.
That's a very unfortunate story that I also noticed this morning and one that comes hard on the heels of a new law that has been passed/is being debated, whereby parents are accountable in law for the children being at the intersections - ie outlawing it. This legal change was in the news only about two weeks ago. I can't remember if it's in force yet.
My understanding is that it only affects children at intersections though, not the wider issue being discussed here.
My understanding is that it only affects children at intersections though, not the wider issue being discussed here.
Perhaps they could start off by enforcing the law at the intersections at either end of Soi Binthabaht! Seriously - it is a horrible story but, even though the kids in Hua Hin are not working in heavy traffic, it illustrates the abuse that some of them may be subjected to. There is also a moral in the idea of punishing those who buy the flowers for encouraging the trade.
In earlier posts I apologise for making comments that people thought were tantamount to scaremongering but I am not making things up. The male caddies did have a scam to rob tourists at Royal Hua Hin. The way it worked was that, after observing at a drinks stop that you put your wallet in your golf bag, on one of the long holes after a par three, the caddy took your bag to the next tee past the trees, while you were still putting. Alternatively, on a par 5 he left you to tee off and walked down the fairway with your bag to look out for your ball. This gave him time to take some notes out of your wallet (preferably some large denomination foreign ones) and pass them to another caddy who came past on a motorbike in plain clothes, having been called in by mobile phone. If you noticed the loss and complained, the cash would not be found on your caddy and most people would give up. One tourist called the police which upset the caddy who threatened him with a knife. The policeman who came turned out to be some connection and would accept a complaint on either count. Eventually the scam was stopped by some letters that were seen by tourists who refused to play at Royal Hua Hin with the result that the tour operator cancelled group bookings there for the whole season. He told the course why they got cancelled and the Bhirompakdi family (owners of Singha who pay a peppercorn rent to State Railways of Thailand for the course) got to hear of it and ordered a shake up at the golf course sending people from Bkk to sort it out.
If you keep your nose clean and don't offend anyone, you are unlikely to be a victim of violence but it is all around in Thailand and it is naive to think that Hua Hin is the only town in the country that has no mafia, particularly due to the size of the pickings from the tourist industry. A Hua Hin police chief was transferred to Isaan several years ago - the whisperers said it was due to alleged involvement in the drug trade. Several Thai men were shot and killed by the Hua Hin police and their bodies were dumped on waste ground and burned. Some police were eventually prosecuted for this but received light penalties. There is a more than decade old case in the Supreme Court involving police from the Cha Am station, including the commander, a major, who were sentenced to death for the execution style murders of 4 or 5 men who were made to lie face down in a disco in Cha Am. Bad luck for them - one of the men they shot in the head turned out to the nephew of the permanent secretary at the Interior Ministry. They were initially just transferred to Isaan but the permanent secretary used his influence to arrange a different outcome for them. Nonetheless, the permanent secretary retired and then died and they are out on bail on appeal and are regularly seen hanging around in restaurants and bars in Hua Hin. Petchburi, just 40 mins up the road, is noted as the place where many of the roving contract killers are hired. Obviously they are protected and organized there by godfathers. It is hard to believe that these guys would overlook the rich pickings in Hua Hin. In Ratchburi, just a little further up the road we can see recently what the mafia did to their rival not caring that she was a Thai Rak Thai MP and her brother a senator. The mafia is all around in and out of uniform, although there are also many good men in uniform whose praises are usually left unsung. Mafias spawn networks of underlings who all have to pay rent to the next level up. Therefore it is wrong to say that any type of criminal activity is too small to be of interest to them. Every one wants people below him on the ladder that he can collect rent from. At the bottom of the chain are the children.
The disco at the Hua Hin Grand has been shut down several times due to shootings, one of them fatal. The City Beach disco was also shot up at least once. Finally as an example of how violence can touch any one in Thailand, the best friend of my wife's younger brother was shot dead in Bangkok two days ago by a vocational school student who leaned out of a bus window and shot him for fun and to show off to his mates without even knowing who he was or what college he attended. The murderer turned out to be a policeman's son and his father is no doubt at this moment with his police friends concocting a preposterous story to help get his son a light sentence. This is such a commonplace event that the story was not carried by the Bkk Post or the Nation.
In earlier posts I apologise for making comments that people thought were tantamount to scaremongering but I am not making things up. The male caddies did have a scam to rob tourists at Royal Hua Hin. The way it worked was that, after observing at a drinks stop that you put your wallet in your golf bag, on one of the long holes after a par three, the caddy took your bag to the next tee past the trees, while you were still putting. Alternatively, on a par 5 he left you to tee off and walked down the fairway with your bag to look out for your ball. This gave him time to take some notes out of your wallet (preferably some large denomination foreign ones) and pass them to another caddy who came past on a motorbike in plain clothes, having been called in by mobile phone. If you noticed the loss and complained, the cash would not be found on your caddy and most people would give up. One tourist called the police which upset the caddy who threatened him with a knife. The policeman who came turned out to be some connection and would accept a complaint on either count. Eventually the scam was stopped by some letters that were seen by tourists who refused to play at Royal Hua Hin with the result that the tour operator cancelled group bookings there for the whole season. He told the course why they got cancelled and the Bhirompakdi family (owners of Singha who pay a peppercorn rent to State Railways of Thailand for the course) got to hear of it and ordered a shake up at the golf course sending people from Bkk to sort it out.
If you keep your nose clean and don't offend anyone, you are unlikely to be a victim of violence but it is all around in Thailand and it is naive to think that Hua Hin is the only town in the country that has no mafia, particularly due to the size of the pickings from the tourist industry. A Hua Hin police chief was transferred to Isaan several years ago - the whisperers said it was due to alleged involvement in the drug trade. Several Thai men were shot and killed by the Hua Hin police and their bodies were dumped on waste ground and burned. Some police were eventually prosecuted for this but received light penalties. There is a more than decade old case in the Supreme Court involving police from the Cha Am station, including the commander, a major, who were sentenced to death for the execution style murders of 4 or 5 men who were made to lie face down in a disco in Cha Am. Bad luck for them - one of the men they shot in the head turned out to the nephew of the permanent secretary at the Interior Ministry. They were initially just transferred to Isaan but the permanent secretary used his influence to arrange a different outcome for them. Nonetheless, the permanent secretary retired and then died and they are out on bail on appeal and are regularly seen hanging around in restaurants and bars in Hua Hin. Petchburi, just 40 mins up the road, is noted as the place where many of the roving contract killers are hired. Obviously they are protected and organized there by godfathers. It is hard to believe that these guys would overlook the rich pickings in Hua Hin. In Ratchburi, just a little further up the road we can see recently what the mafia did to their rival not caring that she was a Thai Rak Thai MP and her brother a senator. The mafia is all around in and out of uniform, although there are also many good men in uniform whose praises are usually left unsung. Mafias spawn networks of underlings who all have to pay rent to the next level up. Therefore it is wrong to say that any type of criminal activity is too small to be of interest to them. Every one wants people below him on the ladder that he can collect rent from. At the bottom of the chain are the children.
The disco at the Hua Hin Grand has been shut down several times due to shootings, one of them fatal. The City Beach disco was also shot up at least once. Finally as an example of how violence can touch any one in Thailand, the best friend of my wife's younger brother was shot dead in Bangkok two days ago by a vocational school student who leaned out of a bus window and shot him for fun and to show off to his mates without even knowing who he was or what college he attended. The murderer turned out to be a policeman's son and his father is no doubt at this moment with his police friends concocting a preposterous story to help get his son a light sentence. This is such a commonplace event that the story was not carried by the Bkk Post or the Nation.