Immigration cracking down on overstay, including jail terms

[hhfarang]

Because it's immigration related, I put this here. Mods, please move it to "News" if you think more appropriate.

BANGKOK: Allegedly tired of overstaying foreigners arriving at Suvarnabhumi airport with a valid air ticket and the maximum fine of 20,000 baht in their hands, the Immigration Department is now arresting and jailing people before permitting them to leave Thailand.

Anybody who has overstayed a valid visa in Thailand beyond a period of six weeks (42 days) is no longer permitted to simply turn up with the cash and an air ticket and leave the country after filling in a few forms and handing over the wedge.

For many years now it has been possible for people on long overstay to simply gather together the maximum fine under law of 20,000 baht, purchase an air ticket, travel to Suvarnabhumi and leave Thailand after completing a few formalities. With a change in the command at the top of the Immigration Department ladder this has now altered and anyone whose overstay is 42 days or longer is likely to be arrested.

People on overstay of less than three weeks (21 days) are still able to arrive at the airport with the correct amount of folding stuff, pay the fine due and leave Thailand.

The grey area is for those whose overstay falls in the period between three and six weeks; that is, between 22 and 41 days. They can potentially have a problem. It is being suggested anyone whose overstay falls into this time frame should be aware that it will be up to the Immigration officer and his superiors at an airport or land border crossing to decide whether to detain the recalcitrant foreigner or permit him, or her, to leave unhindered, after payment of the overstay fine has been levied.

As with many legal situations in Thailand involving foreigners and money, the rules tend to bend with the circumstances, and the mood of the relevant official or officials.

Nonetheless, it is being stated quite unequivocally that anyone on overstay exceeding 42 days (six weeks) will be arrested. They will then spend at the very least one or two days behind bars while waiting for the necessary paperwork to be processed. Most will eventually spend some time inspecting the stripy sunlight at the Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) in Bangkok.

CLEAR UP OVERSTAY IN BANGKOK

It is better to clear up long overstay issues in Bangkok rather than in Phuket, Pattaya or elsewhere.

SEEK LEGAL ADVICE AND ASSISTANCE FROM YOUR EMBASSY

While embassy officers cannot circumvent or interfere in the process of Thai law they can advise overstayers on the best course of action and provide assistance for their nationals while in custody.

-- PattayaOne 2010-09-24

[PeteC]

That makes sense and seems fair to me. Those who abuse the system intentionally should not easily get a 'go home' card. Those who overstay for valid reasons or absentmindedness 3 weeks should be enough unless a hospital stay, but in that case you'll have a letter from the hospital to avoid all the consequences except the fine. In hospital cases, I've also heard that the fine is sometimes waived as well. Up to the man on duty. Pete

[Roel]

Up to the man on duty

Wonder what will be the going rate for a "stay-out-of-prison-card".

Those who abuse the system intentionally will keep doing so. Only the price has gone up a bit. But for some reason most of these abusers seem to have money to burn. Makes life easy in Thailand. Makes life easy everywhere as a matter of fact.

Immigration is not really going to bite the hand that feeds them are they?

For the same reason Pattaya will never get rid of the criminals. If they kick them out the police will no longer be on their pay rolls. And to "serve and protect" families and men alone in their 40s and 50s on their 3-week budget holidays does not generate any serieus extra money, does it?

Sorry a bit cynical today but it really surprises me that so many expats rely on the Thai system to serieusly try to get rid of the "bad farang apples that give the rest of us a bad name". These bad apples are funding the whole system. Not in their interest to get rid of them at all.

After been carried away a bit, back to topic: giving officials the right to send overstayers to jail for one or two nights will not affect the abusers at all. They cannot be bothered with visa runs or extensions. Simply every time pull out 20 grand at the airport and off you go. Under the new rules they might have to pull out 30 and they will.

[johnnyk]

No excuses for a 6-week overstay. A night or two in the baan ling should sort them out.

[Roel]

That is the point. Some money will easily generate a good enough excuse.

[margaretcarnes]

No excuses for a 6-week overstay. A night or two in the baan ling should sort them out.

True JohnnyK - but there's very little excuse for ANY overstay really. OK, as already pointed out hospitalisation - and I'd add less serious illness in some cases - will cause overstay. As will inevitable delays in doing a visa run. Let's face it many of us have incurred overstay of a day or two through no fault of our own. Weather - transport etc. Pay up and smile. But the law is the law.
What bothers me is the 3 week leeway per se. It does seem far too generous.
Even worse though is the 'no man's land' of between 3 and 6 weeks. It seems deliberately designed to allow individual Immigration offices to accrue funds IMO. I could understand it if such cases were passed to a central arbitration/appeal office in the vain hope that Nationally agreed policy decisions could be applied. (Yeah - dream on) but as it stands it is too woolly and open to abuse on both sides.

[johnnyk]

I agree with you 100% Margaret. I don't think there is any excuse - people need to pay attention or drink less. If it comes down to serious illness or injury I think the Thai officials will look benignly on it.
Its the ones blatantly abusing the rules who should feel the bite. As for visa runs - PLAN AHEAD! Check the calandar, the numbers are usually marked clearly. If people can't do that they aren't mature or sensible enough to travel further than their own local mall without a minder.

[Roel]

From the Phuket Gazette:

Phuket Immigration: No change in visa overstay rules

PHUKET: -- The Phuket Immigration chief today denied there have been any formal changes in the way Thai Immigration Police deal with foreigners who overstay their permits-to-stay or who are otherwise discovered to be residing in the Kingdom illegally.

Phuket Immigration Superintendent Panuwat Ruamrak admitted receiving “many” calls today following an online media report stating that foreigners who try to depart from Thailand at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport face arrest and detainment if their permits-to-stay have expired by 42 days or more.

The report said people who had overstayed by 21 to 42 days fall into a “gray area” and may face possible arrest and detainment at the discretion of Immigration officers at the intended point of departure.

Those who overstay by fewer than 22 days can pay the fine at the airport and depart without having to worry, according to the report originally sourced to Pattaya One.

Col Panuwat today told the Gazette, “I contacted the legal department at Immigration Bureau Headquarters on Soi Suan Plu in Bangkok, the Phuket Airport Immigration Superintendent and other authorities as well."

“All have assured me that they are still following all the terms of the Immigration Act 1979, enacted on February 29 that year,” he said.

Under the Act, “any alien who stays in the Kingdom without permission, or with permission expired or revoked, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years, or a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht, or both.”

“I am confused about how this kind of news is spread. It is possibly a misunderstanding,” he said.

Such misunderstandings may be the result of people who overstay not having enough money to pay the fine, a scenario that gives Immigration officers no choice but to arrest and detain them, he said.

Overstay fines in Thailand accrue at 500 baht per day to a maximum of 20,000 baht. As such, the policy does not encourage foreigners with long overstays to legitimize their immigration status once they have passed the 40-day threshold.

The alleged “Suvarnabhumi Crackdown” reportedly targets foreigners who take advantage of this by grossly overstaying their permits-to-stay and then turning up at the airport with 20,000 baht and an air ticket in hand, expecting to fly out of Thailand hassle-free.

Col Panuwat stressed that any new official changes in policy or regulations are posted on the Immigration Bureau’s official website: http://www.immigration.go.th.

He encourages tourists with questions to download a copy of the Immigration Act, which is also available online there.

The Phuket Gazette notes that Immigration officers at checkpoints have always had complete discretion on what punitive measures to take with overstays, as specified above.

They can also deny entry to anyone arriving at a border checkpoint for any reason, even if the person arriving is in possession of a valid visa.

This being the case, all foreigners are strongly advised to never stay in Thailand past the date specified in their permit-to-stay and to make sure they comply with all other provisions of Thai Immigration Law.

In Thailand every change in command inevitably leads to the implementation of new rules and procedures. Not sure if this is a mandatory thing or they just do it to show off their skills and enlightenment. Some changes are never implemented, others are very impractical, more often than not the whole thing is ambiguous and unclear. The only positive thing is that it gives the next successor the chance to change everything again.

[Big Boy]

Its the ones blatantly abusing the rules who should feel the bite. As for visa runs - PLAN AHEAD! Check the calandar, the numbers are usually marked clearly. If people can't do that they aren't mature or sensible enough to travel further than their own local mall without a minder.

I agree, but there is always the exception. One of my trips to Thailand was last minute, and there was simply no time to obtain a visa. When I tried to resolve the problem, the immigration advice was to overstay (2 days), and pay the fine at the airport because it would be cheaper.

[loverboy44]

Maybe interesting for some. Just read it.
http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/a ... le9293.htm
Anyway, agree with you all. No need for an overstay and it will give you a nice stamp into your passport which will not be nice if you apply for a work permit.

[loverboy44]

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/a ... e9293.html

[Roel]

I have had a few overstay stamps in the past but has never been an issue with work permit applications.

[pitsch]

Phuket Immigration: No change in visa overstay rules

Under the Act, “any alien who stays in the Kingdom without permission, or with permission expired or revoked, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years, or a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht, or both.”

There is really no change in the law. But as you can see, the existing law leaves the possibility for imprisonment in addition to a fine. So it is up to the immigration officer how he treats this case of long overstay.

[Spitfire]

Ambiguity prevails as usual, personal fiefdoms and all. At all these places it's just what the commander decides is 'par-for-the-course' as long as he's in charge, when he's not anymore then it's the new orifficors playground. There's "La La Land" in the papers etc and what you get told when you get there.

They can't even co-ordinate a countrywide standard law and consequences for non-compliance on wearing a motorbike helmet, let alone immigration.

[johnnyk]

Its the ones blatantly abusing the rules who should feel the bite. As for visa runs - PLAN AHEAD! Check the calandar, the numbers are usually marked clearly. If people can't do that they aren't mature or sensible enough to travel further than their own local mall without a minder.

I agree, but there is always the exception. One of my trips to Thailand was last minute, and there was simply no time to obtain a visa. When I tried to resolve the problem, the immigration advice was to overstay (2 days), and pay the fine at the airport because it would be cheaper.

BB, it surely can happen what with holidays, immig office closures etc. and I can understand your situation. A grace period should be allowed but not for more than a few days other than for illness/injury. We can see who they are after but too often Thai authorities are into one size fits all.