Out of the ashes...

[T.I.G.R.]

1) An individual does not have to form a company to purchase a condominium interest in Thailand.

2) The "Juristic Person" mentioned in this thread is a legal term describing a management committee of a Condominium Association. Home owner's associations may exist in a sense, but to my knowledge none are regulated by the Government. Most are agreements between a developer and the owners of his properties, and not a part of the "Jurastic Person" process governing Condominiums.

We purchased a condominium in Cha Am about three years ago, primarily owned by Thais at the time. Currently about 28% of the owners are non-Thai. Simply put, in Thailand this means non-person......don't let anyone tell you different. We have zero correspondence in anything but the Thai language. We have no financial records and no annual audit. "We" don't particularly care that a third of our owners aren't fluent in Thai and discussion of such issues in a committee meeting last year, stupidly presented by yours truly, were heated and vehement. Let's just say I was glad to get out alive. There are generally no published notices of meetings, distribution of minutes of said meetings, nor any other niceties of civilized societies.

For those of you considering purchasing property here, developing property here, or other such endeavors, please heed the many warnings you've already read or heard about. This is NOT Kansas or anything like it. Essentially it's not unlike the old west in America and something more like the Feudal system in old Europe. Rules are for suckers and will be enforced only if there's some Baht in it for someone. If you think different, good luck to you.

Of course I will continue to buy property here if the situation calls for it, but even with your eyes wide open, one runs considerable risk in doing so.........spend wisely and don't expect life here to be fair.

[TypicallyTropical]

Holy Sh*t! These posts remind me of the good old USSR!

[Super Joe]

For a 'Home Owners Association' to have any clout whatsoever it needs to be formed as a 'Thai Juristic Person,' which means (I think - others can correct me if wrong) it must have majority Thai members on its committee. Without the Thai Juristic Person status you will have no legal power to control errant residents.

I don't know the Thai law, but that wouldn't make sense, if the development has 100 homes and 51 of them are owned by non Thais than it can't be a Thai majority association.

Jaime is spot on as far as I know about Juristic Status (registered at the land office) and legal powers, so much so the HOA can get the land office to put a hold over any transfer of a property where they have an outstanding 500 Baht water bill.
The person (Thai or Farang) that only owns the house and not the land in their name, ie: leasehold, has no vote in a HOA. So the landowners only get to vote and every single one of them would be a Thai national or a Thai Limited Company (leaving to one side the nominee shareholder aspect of that company).

I have a copy of the "Condominium Act, (No. 4), B.E. 2008" which is the Thai Law Governing Condominiums, and I assumed there was something similar for subdivisions too, or as it seems "developments" as they are called there, but it seems that is non-existant yet. I sure am glad I'm interested in condos!

I sure am glad you're not my real estate agent. Land Allocation Act.

SJ

[Jaime]

Holy Sh*t! These posts remind me of the good old USSR!

Well, I can't see the comparison at all!

The Thai Juristic Person on the development we have our place is well run by a hard working and responsible group of Thais and foreigners who, by and large, work together to ensure the 'village' and its communal facilities (pool, showers, fitness suite etc.) are safe, clean and tidy at a reasonable cost and to ensure that residents who signed up to this when they bought the property continue to do so. They are elected to their positions by a ballot of all the residents and do all this for nothing, with the desire to keep their local environment as good as it can be their only motivation.

Maybe we just got lucky but after six or seven years, so far, so good! It certainly doesn't feel like how I imagined the USSR to be when I'm there - what was the USSR like anyway TT?

[Jaime]

PS - As others have posted, don't expect property purchase, professional standards or build quality to be what you'd expect in your own country. If you do you are simply preparing yourself for a pile of TROUBLE, DISAPPOINTMENT and STRESS! Been there, got the T-shirt etc. However, I can now look back on my naivety, laugh and pour myself another Chang with my feet up against the mango tree as yet more builders put right faults on the house!

You really do have to go with the flow or it will either drive you mad or put you in an early grave.

[TypicallyTropical]

I have a copy of the "Condominium Act, (No. 4), B.E. 2008" which is the Thai Law Governing Condominiums.

I sure am glad you're not my real estate agent. Land Allocation Act. SJ

1. Do you want to bet about that "Condominium Act"? I have a copy in front of me! :):)

2. In case you didn't notice, I live in Hawaii, and not in Thailand. While I'm still learning the real estate terms used in Thailand, I am one of the best Brokers in Hawaii. In fact, I was the "2003 Businessman of The Year of Hawaii" and I was invited to have dinner with the President of the USA (George Bush) in the White House the following year. In addition, my company has been on the "Fastest 50" list of companies in Hawaii for two years in a row. (Just search the Pacific Business News for more info.) I hope your real estate agent is better!

[johnnyk]

I have a copy of the "Condominium Act, (No. 4), B.E. 2008" which is the Thai Law Governing Condominiums.

I sure am glad you're not my real estate agent. Land Allocation Act. SJ

1. Do you want to bet about that "Condominium Act"? I have a copy in front of me! :):)

2. In case you didn't notice, I live in Hawaii, and not in Thailand. While I'm still learning the real estate terms used in Thailand, I am one of the best Brokers in Hawaii. In fact, I was the "2003 Businessman of The Year of Hawaii" and I was invited to have dinner with the President of the USA (George Bush) in the White House the following year. In addition, my company has been on the "Fastest 50" list of companies in Hawaii for two years in a row. (Just search the Pacific Business News for more info.) I hope your real estate agent is better!

None of which matters a pubic hair in Thailand.

[TypicallyTropical]

None of which matters a pubic hair in Thailand.

Am I missing something here? I have no plans working in HH, none whatsoever! I already sold 50% of my company in Hawaii. I will be retiring to do whatever I want to do, but it sure will not include work!

[loverboy44]

2. In case you didn't notice, I live in Hawaii, and not in Thailand. While I'm still learning the real estate terms used in Thailand, I am one of the best Brokers in Hawaii. In fact, I was the "2003 Businessman of The Year of Hawaii" and I was invited to have dinner with the President of the USA (George Bush) in the White House the following year. In addition, my company has been on the "Fastest 50" list of companies in Hawaii for two years in a row. (Just search the Pacific Business News for more info.) I hope your real estate agent is better!


Maybe you can go into a 7/11 and tell them that you are the best and this buys you a bottle of Beer Singh, doesn't it?

Typically American over confidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

[TypicallyTropical]

Typically American over confidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Nope, it's not overconfidence, I have a proven track record, but it doesn't matter, you guys can have your own opinions. Case closed.

[loverboy44]

I have a proven track record too. Buying Beer Singh at my local 7/11!!!!

LOL

[Super Joe]

I have a copy of the "Condominium Act, (No. 4), B.E. 2008" which is the Thai Law Governing Condominiums.

I sure am glad you're not my real estate agent. Land Allocation Act. SJ

1. Do you want to bet about that "Condominium Act"? I have a copy in front of me!

The above is selective quoting by TT to deliberately mislead us, he has omitted the relevant comment about an Act for subdivisions of "developments", and left the "Condominium" part to which I did not comment.
TT has even altered his original quote above by adding a 'full stop' after the word 'Condominiums'
See full quotes below ...

I have a copy of the "Condominium Act, (No. 4), B.E. 2008" which is the Thai Law Governing Condominiums, and I assumed there was something similar for subdivisions too, or as it seems "developments" as they are called there, but it seems that is non-existant yet. I sure am glad I'm interested in condos!

I sure am glad you're not my real estate agent. Land Allocation Act.

Why the need for all this trickery TT, is the Hawaii Real Estate business really run like the Wild West? or are there also professionals wth integrety that operate there? You shiny awards mean nothing to me if this is how you conduct yourself.

SJ

[Jaime]

Typically American over confidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

Nope, it's not overconfidence, I have a proven track record, but it doesn't matter, you guys can have your own opinions. Case closed.

No opinions from me TT, just my experience of actually buying a property in Hua Hin - I s'pose it's a case of take it or leave it!

[malcolminthemiddle]

I tried to post this file as an attachment without success. For an explanation of a Nitubikon Moo Baan Jadsan or Homeowner Association have a read of the following. To be fair I have left in details of the source.

Nitubikon Moo Baan Jadsan or Homeowner Association
Homeowners Association?

All men should have a say in their own castles

All men can be the king in their own castle? is the old say which can be considered as a basic right of all persons to exercise their power in their property. The wealth of Pattaya comes from many developers who change the cheap tapioca field to be luxury housing projects. There are many Thais who are hired in this booming housing industry. The economy in Pattaya is interrelated to many parts in other provinces. What the developer should sell is not only the building structure but also the system in their housing projects which must be handed over to the homeowners after the project is complete.

What is the Homeowners Association. Nitibukon Moobaan Jadsan should be the closest translation of the term Homeowners Association.

Most of you are familiar with the word Nitibukon or Juristic Person which means Legal Entity or a person created by law, e.g., company, government office and condominium, etc. In this article, we are going to talk about a juristic person status of a Licensed Housing Project or Moobaan Jadsan.

Moobaan Jadsan means a housing estate developing project having a license from the government. The law requires that the housing developing project having more than nine plots must obtain the license for Jadsan. Some projects find that it is very easy to avoid this law by having less than nine plots in the period of three years.

Nitibukon can have the right as same as a Natural Person, e.g., the company can own the land and sign a contract with other persons. However, some rights are applicable only to the natural person, e.g., right or marriage.

Under the Housing Estate Development Act 2000, the Nitibukon Moobaan Jadsan or Homeowners Association with the Juristic Person Status can set up only in the project having license for Jadsan. This kind of Homeowners Association can enjoy the juristic person status with the following rights:-

1. The right to set up a committee to manage the housing estate community and collection of the common maintenance fees
2. The right to enact the constitution or by-laws for the housing estate community.
3. The right to put the ownership of common areas and properties which are street, clubhouse and swimming pool under the name of the Homeowners Association by not transferring to the City Hall or municipality or keep in the name of the greedy developer who will have shop houses in the common areas.
4. The right to takeover the maintenance of the common utilities from the developer.
5. The right to have a common bank account of the Homeowners Association for the common maintenance fees and have the financial statements or balance sheet signed by a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) at the end of the year.
6.The right to enjoy the tax exemption from incomes of the Homeowners Association or transfer tax for the transfer of common areas from the developer.
For the housing developing project without license from the government, the owners cannot enjoy the juristic person status of their association. Some of them set up a limited company to handle the management. However, there is no tax exemption for the limited company handling the management of homeowners.

How to set up the Juristic Person Homeowners Association

In the beginning, the developer will be responsible for the management of the community in the project. In this connection, buyers will be asked to pay for two or three years of the maintenance fees. After half of the houses in the project have been sold, the owners can join together to register the Nitibukon Moobaan Jadsan of Juristic Person Homeowners Association. After the Juristic Person Homeowners Association has been set up, even the developer will have to pay for the common maintenance fees for the unsold houses in the project. This is the reason why some unethical developers will not happy if the homeowners try to set up the juristic person association.

You may join together to have a friendly dinner with your neighbors and their Thai wives to discuss the basic concept of the formation of the Juristic Person Homeowners Association. The value of your property will be definitely added up with profits for your investment.

The registration of the Juristic Person Homeowners Association must be made with the Land Office. If the houses have already sold more than half, the developer cannot have any objection. All monies collected by the developer for the common maintenance fees must be handed over to the homeowners association.

The problem is that it is not easy to contact all homeowners because most of them stay overseas. Some Thai wives scare to speak out for their rights. You should collect all email addresses of your neighbors as many as you can and try to circulate news and information about the community.The slogan Together we are strong should be promoted in your community.

Good house, good wife and good neighbors should be the dream which can become true for all of you.

If you need further knowledge about Thai laws, please search in our reading By: Mr. Ponthep Werachon, Thai Solicitor & Mrs. Darunee Werachon, Thai Solicitor & Accountant of WERACHON LAW OFFICE, 448/17 Thepprasit Rd, Pattaya, ( 038 300967 , (081)4234255 , e-mail: thai@werachonlawyers.com,Reading room about Thai laws http://www.thaisolicitor.com

[PeteC]

Speaking about single family homes and not condos, beware if a Thai neighbor asks you to be on an owners association board to give some fresh insight and experience as a foreigner. Anyone in the neighborhood who doesn't like what you're suggesting or how you're swaying the committee can easily make a call and you'll be approached by some official asking to see a work permit. I speak from experience. Pete