Protecting my assets

[sargeant]

SJ first thing is ALL property aquired during marriage is split 50/50 according to my lawyer
second even if you pay the house and 30 year lease or company route in full that law still applies the difference is 30 year or company she gets 50% of what it sells for whereas in my route she gets 50% of whats left after the bank take back what they are owed ie a sliding scale the longer it lasts the larger total to be split (check my finally comment)
third remember it is not in your partners interest to split especially if she does NOT havethe income to pay the mortgage and even more so if she doesnt have the income to rent somewhere
fourth it is going to prove exceedingy difficult for the Thai to sell it if you are at home saying its NOT for sale as happened to me last year
fifth all the above, if shit comes to shove, should at least make it amicable but mostly at the most you will ony lose 50% of the deposit normaly 10% you dont lose the mortgage payments because you would be paying more in rent
sixth if your money stays at home earning interest you should be living cost free and remember that is your money made before the marriage so does not come into the 50/50 unless you put it into property here and pay 100% outright
finally if after taking care of you for 20/25 years i think she deserves 50% maybe you dont

there are ways of getting a mortgage here i wont put on here i have also found ways to secure myself which i wont put on here
reason they are not legal but not illegal either
if you want to know more come and see me

just a bit of history
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: 90 year lease is just a con
author soi88
Sargeant – we wish we had taken your advice before we got ourselves into this mess. You certainly talk a lot of sense on this subject.

[Super Joe]

I think basically Sarge, this is a situation that could suit and work out very well for those who like to rent, but it offers no protection for those looking to purchase.

SJ first thing is ALL property aquired during marriage is split 50/50 according to my lawyer

Yes that seems to be the case generally. But under these circumstances the foreigner will have no control over the situation, he will be out of the house. The property can be sold to Uncle Bob for a fraction of the real value, you then have to chase her round Thailand suing her.

remember it is not in your partners interest to split especially if she does NOT have the income to pay the mortgage

It is in her interest if she has a new man, who is happy to take over the payments.

it is going to prove exceedingy difficult for the Thai to sell it if you are at home saying its NOT for sale

There won't be many cases where Thai family members allow a foreigner to lose them
big money, particularly when the wife is telling them how wicked he was to her and that he has no legal right to stay there.

if shit comes to shove, should at least make it amicable but mostly at the most you will ony lose 50% of the deposit normaly 10% you dont lose the mortgage payments because you would be paying more in rent

Yes this works for renters, but not good for those wanting to make an investment and/or live in the home they have built up over the past 15, 20, 25 years for the remainder of their entire lives (Usufruct).

and remember that is your money made before the marriage so does not come into the 50/50 unless you put it into property here and pay 100% outright

But that's exactly what you are doing, putting it into property here, albeit at a much slower rate. And if the separation comes in after say 15-20 years of a 25 year mortgage then you've put a hell of a lot of money into it, whether it was yours prior to marriage or not.


Don't get me wrong Sarge, I'm not trying to say its not suitable for some, you are happy with it and that's great, but I can't see it does anything for those of us who want to buy and live in our own property, not spend our money buying someone else's for them (renting).

SJ

Edited: Reason for edit to simplify and make clearer certain points, and to add the last paragraph.

[bladerunner2120]

Fantastic....a lot of whats been written i already have given a lot of thought too...
Renting building for business porpoise and living in it, the tip of putting lease in my name is most helpful.
Placing a deposit on a house/townhouse and getting a mortgage under her name also was thought about, i quite like that while leaving the bulk of my money invested back home, but that thought was more about how do i make sure both my 2 children and new wife receive a fair equal share of assets once im gone. This would work very well if the new business was making a decent living for us.
Of course i expect to loose something if the relationship ended and certainly im happy to share whatever we have made together, but im not happy about sharing what i had with her before she came on the scene.
I like Sargent's thinking on this one, with the 50/50 on property in case of divorce..... means once you do your settlement she will have to pay you out if she wants to keep the house and the buisness... other wise its sold up and proceeds split.
If the relationship did end on a sour note and she was looking to "get me" she could make it hard but i can see i have a bargaining tool here with the 50/50 split of assets.

[stgrhe]

Bladerunner, basically you have only one real option it you want hundred per cent protection, and that is to divorce your wife, buy a condominium then have a pre-nup drawn up and register it at the local Amphoe the same time you remarry her here in Thailand.

Assets in a company can be protected the same way but never land since you cannot own in except for under very special circumstances.

[sargeant]

SJ wrote

But under these circumstances the foreigner will have no control over the situation, he will be out of the house.

Why would he be out of the house if he has done nothing wrong

The property can be sold to Uncle Bob for a fraction of the real value,

no it cant it would be a court order and i would have a lawyer as well

It is in her interest if she has a new man, who is happy to take over the payments.

no he couldnt i would not leave i would divorce see above. and that situation applies in spades if the property is paid in full

There won't be many cases where Thai family members allow a foreigner to lose them
big money,

what big money a 10% deposit

But that's exactly what you are doing, putting it into property here, albeit at a much slower rate.

unless i am mistaken as in my case it is the OPs wifes business and hard work which will pay for it

His assets will stay where they are increasing if invested

All he would be investing is a 10% deposit if he is able like i did he wont even invest that

2 minor advantages no government can change the law to take away something you dont have plus if the currency of your country goes down the u bend you can up sticks and leave it to the bank

one point you dont seem to have a very high regard for Thais do you

what would be interesting is how many PMs trying to sell him property he has recieved from vested interests

one last small bit of my personal view when i came here the Hotel California company route was bullet proof soi88 blew that away then it was 30+30+30 soi88 did that in the jugular and now its usufruct how long before that proves to be a mispelling maybe i am cynical but guess what i have no nil nana buggeral vested interest
funny that aint it

[Super Joe]

Why would he be out of the house if he has done nothing wrong
no he couldnt i would not leave i would divorce see above

Because it's in her name only, farang has no registered rights of habitation. Maybe if you sat in the middle of the living room floor with your arms folded, she and her 20 family members would just give in and let you stay.

no it cant it would be a court order and i would have a lawyer as well

Why would she want to wait months on end for you to get a court order in place if that put her at a disadvantage. She could sell it asap, as long as the bank's debt was covered so they approved. You put it in her name remember, she doesn't need your permission to do anything with it, until a court decides otherwise.

what big money a 10% deposit

That's day 1. I'm talking about after 'x' years when there's say 2 or 3M Baht of equity in the property.

unless i am mistaken as in my case it is the OPs wifes business and hard work which will pay for it
His assets will stay where they are increasing if invested
All he would be investing is a 10% deposit if he is able like i did he wont even invest that

If you can set your wife up in a business and she can then pay the mortgage each month then great. Doesn't seem to happen that often though from what I see.

2 minor advantages no government can change the law to take away something you dont have plus if the currency of your country goes down the u bend you can up sticks and leave it to the bank

Maybe not the governmentbut your wife can chuck you out whenever she likes, it's in her name and you have no rights to be there if seperated. If you leave it to the bank you forfeit a large amount that you have paid to date.

one point you dont seem to have a very high regard for Thais do you

Not quite sure what you're on about there Sarge, unless it's because I'm talking about the worst case scenarios.

one last small bit of my personal view when i came here the Hotel California company route was bullet proof soi88 blew that away

Foreigners holding property via a Limited Company have been left alone to date, if they make them change that set-up tomorrow then they can take out a 30 year lease, or whatever, but with maybe a 10 year headstart.

Plenty of foreigners have lost their property though by putting it in their wives name, with no registered access rights for the foreigner, which is what you're suggesting.

SJ

[sargeant]

SJ the legal document i have is called a marriage certificate and as i have said i will have a lawyer myself and it is not so easy to throw anyone out with that bit of paper 20 family members or not. A court order does not take months 24 hours if need be.

She could sell it asap, as long as the bank's debt was covered so they approved.

That proves you have done lttle or zero research into the mortgage system here

a 50 50 split is just that irrespective of whose name it is in, or oracle worked clauses.

if you want to know how to train a Grand National winner i suggest you talk to ginger Mcain or better still Red Rum NOT the bloke in front or behind you in a ladbrokes betting office

my offer is still there come and talk to someone who HAS done it ie me

as for people loosing property again talk to me i HAVE lost 3 properties due to divorce two in the UK and one here

I fully understand why the farang property vested interests would rubbish the mortgage idea because

they dont want banks putting REALISTIC valuations on property

you know what i mean the pull a number from thin air multiply by 100% a year plus make believe tea money and hope some mug will pay it

[Super Joe]

SJ the legal document i have is called a marriage certificate and as i have said i will have a lawyer myself
a 50 50 split is just that irrespective of whose name it is in, or oracle worked clauses.

Sarge, the misunderstanding you have regarding this is that you believe the land and house you are buying will be joint matrimonial property (Sin Somros), it will not, it will be the Thai wife's personal property (Sin Suan Tua). Before the land to be purchased gets registered, the foreign husband and Thai wife both have to sign the following declaration at the land office: "We confirm that the money which Mrs ‘x’ shall expend on the purchase of land title deed no. ‘x’ is wholly Sin Suan Tua or the personal property of Mrs. ‘x’ alone, not Sin Somros or the matrimonial property between husband and wife."

So the land is her personal property, and under Thai law Section 1473 she is entitled to manage her own personal property as she sees fit, without consent from the other spouse. So she has the legal right under the law to sell it to whoever she wants, for however much she wants, as long as the bank is covered for it's debt.

In these circumstances the foreign husband has no right to a 50/50 split in the event of divorce under the law, Section 1498 states that in event of divorce each parties' personal property remains their personal property. But in practice, judges have been awarding 50/50 splits where the foreigner can show he contributed a certain amount of the funds. But you mentioned in an earlier post that .... "unless i am mistaken as in my case it is the OPs wifes business and hard work which will pay for it" .... so in your case you will most likely not be awarded a 50/50 split.

The major problem with this set-up is that is does not allow the foreigner to register any access/user rights on the land title as the lending banks will, for obvious reasons, not allow any restrictions on the property in case they need to recover their debt in the event of default.


============================================

my offer is still there come and talk to someone who HAS done it ie me

as for people loosing property again talk to me i HAVE lost 3 properties due to divorce two in the UK and one here

Or alternatively talk to a decent real estate lawyer about how best to protect yourself

SJ

[sargeant]

SJ wrote

Before the land to be purchased gets registered, the foreign husband and Thai wife both have to sign the following declaration at the land office: "We confirm that the money which Mrs ‘x’ shall expend on the purchase of land title deed no. ‘x’ is wholly Sin Suan Tua or the personal property of Mrs. ‘x’ alone, not Sin Somros or the matrimonial property between husband and wife."

probaby if you are paying 100% cash

but Sorry i havent signed anything zero zilch nana and i am quite happy after 12 years for mrs sarge to have the zero baht deposit i paid and as for the mortgage payments i am winning 4,000 bt a month because its cheaper than renting

I have no interest in carrying this on ad nauseaum vested interests are terrified of it and i just dont care i am fine and i cant loose jack crap nothing zilch nana not a sausage nary a single razoooo
if you dont have owt you cant loose nowt
Bring your assets here at your own risk that is the answer to the ops question

Your reluctance to get it from the horses mouth is telling though

[Super Joe]

but Sorry i havent signed anything.

I'm glad you're happy Sarge, and it's all working out for you. But for others out there I'd advise that for land to be registered in accordance with the Land Office regulations the declaration has to be signed wherever it involves a Thai who has a foreign spouse, irrespective of whether any of the purchase money was borrowed from a bank, 100% hers or 100% his. New buyers can check this out with a lawyer. There's nothing to stop a Thai person from entering on the registration forms that they are not married to a foreigner to avoid having to sign it, but people should be wary of this and have a lawyer accompany them to the land office to make sure everything is done correctly.

vested interests are terrified of it

It doesn't matter at all to someone selling a property whether the money they receive comes from the UK or Bangkok Bank mortgage department, it's still the same amount. And I'd assume the more couples who could get a mortgage the more buyers there would be, so not sure why you think they're would be vested interest against it!?!?
It's just a case of wanting to give what I believe is sound advice re: protecting assets. I've seen and read about foreigners getting ripped off and the most common way it often occurs is by putting it all in the Thais' name and not having any legal rights registered on the land title in the foreigners name. Ofcourse fortunately there are more good stories than bad, more successful relationships than not, you only hear about the one's that end badly.

Agree we're going round in circles, we've both given our opinions on it, people can take either of the advice or leave it.


SJ

[Khundon1975]

Bladerunner, basically you have only one real option it you want hundred per cent protection, and that is to divorce your wife, buy a condominium then have a pre-nup drawn up and register it at the local Amphoe the same time you remarry her here in Thailand.

Assets in a company can be protected the same way but never land since you cannot own in except for under very special circumstances.

stgrhe

Does marriage in Thailand make a difference?

We married in Thailand and I have always ensured that any properties we purchased together there, are wholly in the wife's name. I want no part of them, either now or in the future. She is free to do with them as she pleases.

Of course, if someone was not sure of how strong their relationship was with their Thai wife, then get a good lawyer as SJ advises, as there are so many pitfalls for the unwary.

[Name Taken]

do not invest anything that you are not prepared to lose!

That's some great advice right there.

[stgrhe]

Does marriage in Thailand make a difference?

I suppose if one wants to own a condo in Thailand one has better register the pre-nup here, and if one divorced ones wife only for the sake of being 100% sure that the property is one's name only, then one probably wants to remarry the wife again so I suppose it makes a difference.

[bladerunner2120]

Nothing is bullet proof but i see what sarge is on about, he answered exactly what i wanted to know and gave me some very good tips.
Clearly its not in the best interests of either party to split unless it is serious, then your just dam happy to split what ever it costs you.
There have been many horror stories written about farang guys loosing a house or two over there, and women as guys are very good at acting the loving partner when in reality there only motive is to get what they can, of course there can be many motives for dissolving a marriage and if you do her wrong...........she might be angry and hurt enough to rip every cent she can get out of you, that happens everywhere.
I am fairly confident that ive made the right choice in a partner but as i am heading towards my twilight years i cant afford another property settlement.
Sarge says keep your money back in your own country, get your partner to show a savings record then apply for a mortgage the funds can come out of the buisness if it can afford it otherwise i would pay it, sarge claims for him its cheaper than renting and if there is like here that sounds about right, otherwise just rent, i would prefer to own/buying for the peace of mind that i am in control of my living arrangements.
The buisness premises lease would be in my name so technically i control what goes on there.
In case of a breakdown and she has a top lawyer what can you loose...at best its 50/50 of your equity in the property and maybe buisness at worse its the funds i put up to cover set up costs of buisness and deposit on a property, the payments could have been dead rent money anyway..........
The way sarge has set his affairs up minimizes potential losses and keeps his woman honest

[sargeant]

Just a couple of things i also managed to avoid by going direct to the seller

lawyers fees
estate agents fees
tea money
do nuts
guns/bullets
baseball bats