Protecting my assets

[bladerunner2120]

A question for the learned, a farang and his Thai wife who married in farangs home country were to move to Thailand and set up a small business and purchase a property using his money with little or no cash input from the Thai woman, how could that farang protect his assets if that relationship failed and she expected a share?

[richard]

Protecting assets? I always use a condom

Seriously I would have thought if you are married in your home country then home country laws apply. In the UK that means a 50% split I believe.

No expert but my previous UK wives took me to the cleaners

[Winkie]

I think Thai Law is not so different.

Don't froget, unless special conditions apply, you CANNOT officially start a business with ONLY your money. You need a 51% Thai partner to invest.

[Winkie]

Before anyone comments...

A Froget is bigger than a Tadpole, but smaller than a Frogling!

[buksida]

how could that farang protect his assets if that relationship failed and she expected a share?

I don't think you can, when you buy property (land) you are forced to sign documents stating that the finances are not yours to begin with - thus in the unfortunate case of separation the alien is entitled to nothing.

Our property gurus may know of a way around this.

[charlesh]

Risk averse behaviour - well done. Smacks of prenuptials and a shaky relationship maybe?
However as I have read several times about investing in the LOS do not invest anything that you are not prepared to lose!

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/ ... ys-890.gif

[mohammed]

A question for the learned, a farang and his Thai wife who married in farangs home country were to move to Thailand and set up a small business and purchase a property using his money with little or no cash input from the Thai woman, how could that farang protect his assets if that relationship failed and she expected a share?

To achieve some protection you could purchase a condo in your own name as (unlike land / house deals), foreigners have the right to buy condos - although your marriage must be registered at the land office at the time of the purchase of the condo. You could then gift your wife money to set up a business. Its possible you can set up a company with your wife & her relatives owning 51% of the company with you owning 49%. For you to work in the company requires a work permit which is getting much more difficult.

Beware of the advice from lawyers who have vested interests in the property market or people already in the property trade. Generally, the people on this forum give good advice as regards property, even those who are in the property market. I'm sure you'll get more specific advice from them.

If you purchase a condo, and the relationship fails the best you can expect back is 50% of your total outlay but if your wife fought hard you could end up with 50% of the value of the condo and zero from the business.

If you buy a house recovering any of your assets in the turmoil of a failed relationship may be impossible.

[Super Joe]

Pre-nups are legal here but as you're already married then think that's too late, unless there's some law about as you married outside Thailand then you're not legally married here yet until it is registered here!? Might need a lawyer for that one.

Business - You can start a business not listed in the FBA (Foreign Business Act), then you are not restricted to a 49% shareholding, not sure how big a selection of types of businesses that leaves. Will still probably be a 50/50 split though, save for pre-nup. If you lease a building for a business make sure lease is in your personal name.

Property - Condo freehold as Mo just said. If house with land I would put land in wife's name, house registered in your personal name, with a Usufruct agreement for you (plus additional 3rd party agreement to a family member of yours). You then have the legal right to use the land and house for the rest of your entire life, even in event of divorce or sale of land by your wife to a.n.other. You are not restricted to 30 years. When you pass your wife and kids have security.

In practice with divorces (where no pre-nup) the courts seem to generally award a 50/50 split, irrespective if the land is 100% in Thai wife's name yet 100% paid for by foreigner.


SJ

[bladerunner2120]

thanks for that info, to answer richard, in Australia new wife has next to no claims on her husband in the first 2 ys if the relationship goes bellie up that doesnt mean it cant be contested but the average joe is fairly secure, it would cost far too much for the ex to fight assuming the other half stands there ground that would make any gain go straight to the lawyers. I do know of several cases that were told to drop it (exwives that is)
Pre nubs dont stand up either...especially once that marriage has been going for a number of years, again only good in those early years.
I dont really like condo living even though there are some advantages and im at an age that its too to late to try and claw back any losses if the relationship goes down, it would affect my quality of life now that im fast reaching retirement age.
If you qualify for the age pension here in Australia, they dont pay out if your not in the country, if you leave the country for any length of time its stopped, so i wouldnt be able to rely on that and i couldnt live in AU on it either.
The business would be something that the wife would run...keep her off the streets, (thats just a joke guys) and bring in some money at the least just to keep abreast of expenses.
Ive read enough of this forum and others to know what to expect from some of the guys, but the reality is im not going to play up, nor do i expect the relationship to end either, but i have been married before and had several relationships in between marriages i know from experience nothing lasts forever and the only thing thats constant is change, she could decide at some point she would rather be alone or with a new partner and if someone gets into her ear that could mean a lot of trouble for me and at a time in life that i cant afford to loose anything.

[mohammed]

Bladerunner - have you considered buying (or keeping) your property in AU and renting it out? When in Thailand you could rent somewhere fairly cheaply (by AU standards) and buy a small business for your wife. If it all goes tits up you've only the business to lose. Any foreigner buying property in Thailand should rent first for at least a few months to understand the market better.

There are many town houses to rent or buy. A lot of them have shop fronts and living areas above. Your wife could run the business from below while you live above.

Good luck.

[Super Joe]

The business would be something that the wife would run...keep her off the streets, (thats just a joke guys) and bring in some money at the least just to keep abreast of expenses.

In that case, you would not need to form a company, get a work permit, have 4 Thai staff for your work permit, no concerns about nominee shareholders etc. Just 100% make sure the lease of the business premises is in your name, then if any problems she has to leave and you are free to sell it on quicktime when you see the writings on the wall. Assume she could still claim half via a courtcase, might be difficult if you're back in sunny Oz though.

and if someone gets into her ear that could mean a lot of trouble for me and at a time in life that i cant afford to loose anything.

A properly structured Usufruct on your wife's land would allow you to live there for the rest of your days, irrespective of divorce, her selling the land etc. If this is a major concern then only buy somewhere inexpensive, rent or live above the business premises that are in your name if its big enough.

To be fair she's your wife, you've married her, so irrespective of
who put all the funds in, its a partnership in which presumably she's putting her time and effort into. That usually means a fair split in event of seperation. Having said that , if the writings on the wall change all your liquid assests into tiny bars of gold asap

Good luck with whatever you do,

SJ

[nevets]

In a divorce it should be 50,50 but if you want to hang on to some thing get your wife if she will to lees the land to you for 30yrs , and then you have some hold over the situation ,kicking you out as it were.
Saying that my wife owns everything in law 12yrs in October nothing has happened yet .

[Super Joe]

Foreigners gotta gotta gotta do a Thai Will too. Without one, if anything happens to your legal Thai wife, then you are not one of the 6 classes of statutory heirs under the law. Kids (incl. all those from previous relationships AND their fathers), parents, brothers/sisters, half-brothers/sisters, aunts/uncles, grandma/grandpa ALL get first claim over your Thai wifes land/assests before the husband. This applies to Thai-Thai marriages too, its not a farang thing.

SJ

[sargeant]

i will try once more this is what i posted about 2469 posts ago please note date
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: property purchase question

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i dont know if this will help as it is dependant on a relationship

firstly i did not cunningly work this out it just happened

secondly i come from (having already been screwed on a 2 million beach side property) never buy in thailand attitude

i give my girl housekeeping every month and she takes care of everything
for a long time she went around with a purse that would choke a horse

i insisted she put it in her bank account so she wouldnt be robbed

last jan our landlady listening to all the property / letting agencys decided to triple my rent

im gone says i a friend accross the road said buy his house no way says i not you says he your girlfriend she can get a mortgage

a non binding deposit agreement (payed over a year)was reached and of goes my girl to the bank and in 3 weeks we moved

putting the housekeeping money in her bank gave her a credit rating which allowed her to get a mortgage

1 it means i now pay less to buy than rent
2 it is fixed no rises
3 if (and i dont think in my case it will happen )we should split i havent lost anything

this may not suit all but i think getting your wife/girl a credit rating even if you dont need to borrow now may save problems later and gives other alternatives

lastly my cash stays in the bank and earns interest


it works for me and is 100% legal cos i aint involved at all

more info pm me

[Super Joe]

Sarge, on the general issue (ie: not your own personal circumstances) of protecting your investment in the event of seperation, the problem with this set-up is that the farang is not buying a property, the Thai wife is having one bought for her. Please correct me if I've mis-understood the scenario as I have looked at this and would love to know a suitable solution.

The banks will only give the mortgage if they have first charge over the property in event of default so they can sell it at auction to recover their outlay, so they will not allow any long term lease/Usufruct rights to registered on the land. The farang could pay 15, 20, 25 years of the mortgage payments, then in the event of separation be told to leave. No recourse.

The positive for the farang is he was paying no more for mortgage payments than he would have renting, so IF told to leave he can rent a.n.other house. Apart from some ill-feeling he hasn't really lost out financially.

But this doesn't seem a solution to ownership protection IF divorce comes, if it doesn't and you never separate then it works. Many wouldn't want the constant threats of 'get out my house' hanging over them everytime they have a row.

All the best to you though Sarge, it seems to be working for you and giving you piece of mind.


SJ