JAJA wrote:Would I trust Australian police? No.
Is there a history of Australian poice being on the take? Yes
Would I trust American police? No.
Is there a history of American poice being on the take? Yes.
So what is different with Thai police?
What you say about the police in Australia and the US is factually correct, the only difference is that when it occurs there, and in probably every other "civilised" country it hits the press and there is normally a public outcry.
In Thailand all you normally get is, "TIT", "go with the flow" or "put up or shut up". All the time this attitude prevails, and not just from foreigners, I fear little will change.
Thailand is a great country only spoiled by the endemic corruption.
Do I trust the police in America? Yes, but then I am a white guy in suburbia. Would I trust the police if I was a black in Oakland? No, and it does matter the race of the police.
Would I trust the police in Mexico? Absolutely NOT !!!
So what about Thailand. I don't know I haven't had much personal 'professional' contact. I've been out with my wife's brothers while driving and they have been nicked for tea money, but then they were driving pretty stupidly. What cost them 100 bhat would have easily set me back $300-$500 US in CA, put points on my record and upped my insurance.
I'm sure there are locations and circumstances where you run into situations previously described; but at this time I have no good personal reason not to trust the MIB.
I entirely sympathise with the OP, you may well spend many thousands of baht and get nowhere (you are a foreigner so you are automatically guilty of whatever the BIB want)
I have only been stopped by the BIB once for no motorcycle licence
Now whilst I entirely disagree with bribery to BIB, what would have happened in UK ? Huge fine, maybe jail.
Instead of which I paid my 200 baht, got a happy smile, pat on the back and 'have a nice day'
Love it or hate it, this is how the system works
As foreigners, we ain't going to change it
Wanderlust wrote:russ,
If there was ever a prize on here for oversimplification, you have just won it hands down! My father in law was a cop, and two of my uncles in law are cops here in Thailand, and it isn't a question of how much the coppers we deal with earn; they are mostly under instruction from their superiors to collect 'x' amount each month/week/day, of which they will get a minor amount, possibly nothing except the chance of moving up the ranks until they can be the ones determining the take, or getting a bigger slice of it. It sucks, but very often lower ranking police have to even pay for their promotions, and this seems to be common in quite a few career choices in Thailand. Even if it wasn't like this, your comment is still crass, as there are very few jobs in Thailand that pay above 10 - 15,000 per month, and a minimal number available full stop. The tax system here cannot fund the wages necessary to eliminate the corruption, so the best way to view it is as an extra tax that you might sometimes have to pay but can mostly avoid if you are sensible. The police still mostly need a reason to stop you, even here, and a smile and a good attitude will go a long way. The example in the OP sounds like an extreme case, but I can guarantee we don't know the full story. I'm guessing that prcscct was pretty close to the truth in saying that this man doesn't know his family - it is clear that he is away from Thailand a considerable amount. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we later find out that his family know some of the police involved. I hate to say it but if he really pursues this he will probably end up a lot worse off than he is now, but fair play to him if he really thinks it is worth it.
russ,
If you can extrapolate from my post that I believe corruption is OK then you must have rearranged the words! Of course I don't, but what can I do? I don't have a vote, my wife already agrees with me and our children will be brought up to share our views, but no politician in this country has yet dealt with the problem or stood for election on a platform to. I have rarely been a 'victim' of corruption, as if I have been pulled over I have done something wrong (knowingly or unknowingly). Next time I'll make a stand and insist I go to the police station rather than pay an 'on the spot fine'; that will make a real difference won't it? You have to be realistic about these things, and the practice won't end because some farangs are getting all high and mighty about it; it will only change when the Thais demand it. Roll on that day but we can do very little to bring it about. Just so you know, my father in law left the police because he didn't agree with how they were doing things like that, so that's a start eh?
It is a horrible place... I suggest you avoid it at all costs!
My brain is like an Internet browser; 12 tabs are open and 5 of them are not responding, there's a GIF playing in an endless loop,... and where is that annoying music coming from?
LAnative wrote:Thailand sounds like a HORRIBLE place. I have NEVER been shaken down by a US cop. Guess the cops there don't believe in the Buddhist concept of Karma.
1) Hey, if LA is so great, why are you mentally unstable, or should I say mentally compromised to the point where you require help from a therapist?
2) I'd rather pay 200 baht to a Thai cop than pay $200 to a US court. Obviously the US system doesn't work.......if it did, you wouldn't have half the population in prison.
3) However, I certainly agree with you about Thailand. It's a filthy low life place that I would never even consider visiting.........I'll just live here instead.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
LAnative wrote:Thailand sounds like a HORRIBLE place. I have NEVER been shaken down by a US cop. Guess the cops there don't believe in the Buddhist concept of Karma.
1) Hey, if LA is so great, why are you mentally unstable.
I think that some thought that I was a bit extreme when posting on this topic and reefing to the Victoria police..
Crooked cops leaking confidential information to criminals
• Keith Moor
• From: Herald Sun
• Fri Oct 16 00:00:00 EST 2009 Fri Oct 16 00:00:00 EST 2009
CROOKED cops have jeopardised the lives of innocent people by leaking confidential information to criminals.
Office of Police Integrity director Michael Strong also revealed corrupt police have derailed a number of important investigations into organised crime by tipping off criminal associates.
He said the OPI had discovered links between senior police and major criminals during the past 12 months.
Some of the inappropriate relationships were long-term and usually involved police leaking sensitive material.
He said: "The seemingly unrestrained release of confidential information by some police is unconscionable and deserves broad public condemnation.
"It is no understatement to say that the release of (this) information has jeopardised the outcome of critically important investigations and the lives of innocent citizens."
In his annual report, which was tabled in State Parliament on Thursday, Mr Strong also revealed:
SOME experienced police officers were giving junior officers the green light to commit corrupt acts and actively encouraging them to cut corners because they were clinging to the myth that breaking the rules goes with the job.
MORE than 50 witnesses have been compelled to attend secret OPI hearings to be questioned about police corruption matters since July last year.
THE OPI has recommended during the past year that 34 criminal charges be laid against six serving or former police officers.
DISCIPLINE charges were recommended against 26 officers for 54 offences during the past year.
THE OPI is pushing to be allowed a greater role investigating police shootings.
Quite correct jaja. Recent events being the Karl Conrad whistle blower shutter commission rake off and of course the suggestion that a hired killer was tipped of by serving officers as to the address of some well known gang members.
I reckon a lot of the problem has to do with the inability of the Victorian court system to deal adequately with recidivists and criminals in general. While the legal crooks reel in the $'s the police are being ham strung to do an almost impossible job.
Apparently police are leaving the force in ever increasing numbers a situation that snow balled under the rule of Christine Nixon aka the blue beanbag.
As for the OPI - remember it "takes a crook to catch a crook".
The thing with living in Thailand I guess is the fear that the MIB aren't necessarily there to "serve and protect" farangs which is further hampered by language and culture issues.
charlesh wrote:The thing with living in Thailand I guess is the fear that the MIB aren't necessarily there to "serve and protect" farangs which is further hampered by language and culture issues.
I think that they not there to serve and protect Thais either, I think they are only there to protect their flow of income.
I really look forward to the day that I can respect the police but I suspect it will never live to see it, especially as most people, Thai and farang, regard police corruption as an inevitable part of life.
The OP's example is obviously distressing. Perhaps another strategy is to go to the duty free in Saudi, pick up a box of goodies and take it to the Chief of Police for the local area. It might not see the money returned but could be useful 'insurance' for the future.
Idealism is all well and good but reality sometimes dictates more pragmatic action.
"Let no one who has the slightest desire to live in peace and quietness be tempted, under any circumstances, to enter upon the chivalrous task of trying to correct a popular error."---William Thoms
