Thailand accused of abusing asylum seekers

[hhfarang]

If Thailand has a problem in the south then its down to the fact that since they annexed that bit of "Malaysia"....for that is what they did

Sandman,

From the area history that I've read, the situation with the southern border is the opposite of what you've stated. In fact, if you look at a map of Siam during the Sukhothai period, the entire Malay peninsula was part of this country. Even as late as 1851, the border was further south into the peninsula than the present day border.

Until the European colonial period, Malaysia didn't even exist as a country. It was a bunch of Sultan states with no central government and no well defined borders at all. Then Britain claimed it for the crown and that began the origin of present day Malaysia (British Malaya).

The Malay nationalism movement didn't even start until the Japanese occupation ended British rule of the Malay peninsula during World War II. It wasn't until 1957 that the Federation of Malaya was formed to become the country that we know today. In fact the British still controlled some of the islands until 1963 when all the area we know as the country of Malaysia today was given it's independence.

So if anyone is to blame for where the modern border is, it would be Britain, not Thailand and Thailand may have a historically legitimate claim to the entire Malay peninsula.

[Khundon1975]

Poor old Rohingas. Persecuted minority Oh hum. The last lot for Oz being Indiand/Bangladeshis/Kosovars and uncle tom cobbly and all.
Should b sent back to where they belong - obviously Bangladesh!!!
Why should Thailand take on board another group of economic refugees ?? Why should anyone?? Why don't countries take on the issue of overpopulation and destruction of their natural resources by this scourge???

Hi charlesh,

I fail to see how you can spout off about economic migrants/refugees?

That's how you got to Aussy in the first place or are you an indigenous Australian (aboriginal) ???
If not, somewhere in your dim and distant past your parents come to Australia on a boat as either prisoners, guards, land grabbers, or just someone trying for a better life.
Do you think the Rohingyas were just having a trip round the bay for fun???

I bet the true Aussie aboriginals think the same about you, as you do about the Rohingas.
SM67 was correct in his post, if you live in a glass house don't throw stones.

[Spitfire]

..............distant past your parents come to Australia on a boat as either prisoners, guards.........

Australians, selected by the finest judges in England.

PS: Before you say, I know you have a lot of 'pommy' jokes aswell.

[Khundon1975]

..............distant past your parents come to Australia on a boat as either prisoners, guards.........

Australians, selected by the finest judges in England.

PS: Before you say, I know you have a lot of 'pommy' jokes aswell.

Hi spitfire
True about the Judges in most cases.

I have heard all the Pommy jokes as I had 3 sisters and brother who emigrated to Australia in the 60s/70s.

It is when I hear an Australian (I take it he is) going on about refugees after what they (Australians) have done to the true Australian aborigines.

Any poor bu**er trying to escape persecution and starvation should be welcomed, by other richer countries.

[lomuamart]

From today's Nation:


Don't believe what the world says about Rohingya'


Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said Wednesday that people should not believe international news reports about the Rohingya boat people being treated inhumanely in Thailand.

International news agencies have reported that a group of 198 boat people, rescued in Indonesia on Monday, had been towed out to sea by the Thai military three weeks ago. Twenty-two had died during the crossing, the survivors told Indonesian officials.

Kasit played down the report saying he would only listen to official reports from Indonesian authorities.

The plight of the Rohingya people was highlighted as the Thai navy was accused of abandoning nearly 1,000 of them in the high seas in December. Some were rescued by the Indian coast guard and some by Indonesian fishermen who discovered the 12metre boat off Aceh's coast in northern Sumatra and towed it to shore on Monday.

The Nation


That's the spirit - "we're right and the rest of the world is wrong!!"

[charlesh]

Well spotted. Given the transient border of Malaysia aka Malaya etc streching way back into the mysteries of time (read Hall's book History of Sth East Asia") and the English meddling with dare I say Palestine and their subsequent blight on the region with the Balfour declaration and in Sth Asia with the Pakistan/India partition etc. etc. they have a lot to answer for as do all other colonial powers.
Rather than debating the historical perspective my assertion is basically sound ie: they are economic refo's and should go through the proper channels. Much the same as we do when we apply to be guests of this country.
If u don't like the way the Thais try to defend their country and their borders given the huge drain on their economy from perhaps millions of refo's from Burma/Laos/Cambodia then perhaps u should not be here (ie make way for others) and as proof of your philanthropic nature open YOUR doors to yet another tide of humanity who will only b too happy to accept your generous offer in the country of your birth.
PS indiginenous Aborigines are known as Kooris!
And yes the Aboriginals who lived in the Melbourne area did SELL their land to John Batman among others.
PPS there is also some debate as to who were the first inhabitants with Tasmanian Kooris being different from mainland tribes a picture further confounded by the LOSS of ancient skeletal remains recovered in the 1930's in NSW which on examination by Anthropologists did not link them to these people(ie Kooris).
But I digress.
It's nice that there are some people out there taking the moral high ground. Maybe ask what the French think of the Nth African exodus to Marseilles and Paris. Recent chats with nother expats including Danes/Swedes also suggest a similar doubt about economic migration from particular sources.
U might also b interested to know that OZ has apparently more nationalities resident than any other country incl the USof A.
PPPS I have just replaced the glass with Polycarbonate ha, ha!
Closer to home Bradford

[Khundon1975]

Well spotted. Given the transient border of Malaysia aka Malaya etc streching way back into the mysteries of time (read Hall's book History of Sth East Asia") and the English meddling with dare I say Palestine and their subsequent blight on the region with the Balfour declaration and in Sth Asia with the Pakistan/India partition etc. etc. they have a lot to answer for as do all other colonial powers.
Rather than debating the historical perspective my assertion is basically sound ie: they are economic refo's and should go through the proper channels. Much the same as we do when we apply to be guests of this country.
If u don't like the way the Thais try to defend their country and their borders given the huge drain on their economy from perhaps millions of refo's from Burma/Laos/Cambodia then perhaps u should not be here (ie make way for others) and as proof of your philanthropic nature open YOUR doors to yet another tide of humanity who will only b too happy to accept your generous offer in the country of your birth.
PS indiginenous Aborigines are known as Kooris!
And yes the Aboriginals who lived in the Melbourne area did SELL their land to John Batman among others.
PPS there is also some debate as to who were the first inhabitants with Tasmanian Kooris being different from mainland tribes a picture further confounded by the LOSS of ancient skeletal remains recovered in the 1930's in NSW which on examination by Anthropologists did not link them to these people(ie Kooris).
But I digress.
It's nice that there are some people out there taking the moral high ground. Maybe ask what the French think of the Nth African exodus to Marseilles and Paris. Recent chats with nother expats including Danes/Swedes also suggest a similar doubt about economic migration from particular sources.
U might also b interested to know that OZ has apparently more nationalities resident than any other country incl the USof A.
PPPS I have just replaced the glass with Polycarbonate ha, ha!
Closer to home Bradford

Charlesh

I think you are missing the point.
The point is that these refugees were cast adrift in an open boat, without the basics needed for survival.

This is 2009 for heavens sake!

No I do not like the way Thailand defends it's borders, why did they not just deport them back to where they came from, instead of condemn them to certain death on the high seas.

That is the humane way to behave!

Yes, they are refugees, but do not have the luxury of "going through the proper channels" that you and I have access to. They are not allowed to leave Burma etc so how can they?

The UK, where I am, has opened it's doors since the early 50's for peoples of other countries and most of them make a big contribution to this country by doing all sorts of work, and in doing so, are not a drain on the economy of this country.

As for the Aboriginals sale of their land to early settlers, I think you will find that for "sale", you must read "Tricked" out of their lands.
I believe that these so called sales, are being questioned in courts across Australia.

There is no debate about who were the first inhabitants of Australia, they were Aboriginals not whites!!!

Just to get in a PS The term Aboriginal is correct, the words Koori, Koorie, Kory, Kuri, Kooli, Koole, all mean Persons or People, and is used by SOME Aboriginals in PARTS of Australia, namely Parts of New South Wales, Victoria, and Tasmania, and only since the EARLY 1960's.

Getting back to the main point, what the Thai authorities did to these refugees goes against all moral and humanitarian codes, and if you support their actions, I for one question your morals.

[santa]

Charlesh, you lack of knowledge is showing. Aboriginals only call themselves Koories in most of Victoria and part of New South Wales and South Australia. Batman's "purchase" of land for Melbourne was a scam to influence the New South Wales colonial government in his favour, as they did not allow settlement outside controlled areas.
The persecution of the Rohingyas by Burmese authorities is well known.

[cozza]

When my wife saw this on SBS news here in Australia, she said "Thats old news, its been happening for years and it was a good thing that finally something was being done about it because the police need to be responsible for their actions".

She also had a view that this is a difficult position because of the Burmese workers being notorious for killing and robbing their employers.

This is echoed in the papers and media throughout Thailand, and I questioned whether these 'employers' may have been mistreating their Burmese workers. Her reply was that it is no excuse for murder, and I agree 100% with that.

IMHO only, the international media need to get more information on "old news" something that has been going on for years as a result of racial integration problems.

[sandman67]

She also had a view that this is a difficult position because of the Burmese workers being notorious for killing and robbing their employers.

That being an example of the anti Burmese/Lao/Khymer racism that is drilled into every thai every day through school to unsubstantiated rumor, gossip and tripe reported in their scandal rag papers.

[hhfarang]

Sandman,

You're probably right about that. When my home was being built by Thai Issan workers and the wall around it was being built by Burmese workers, the Thais expressed a fear of the Burmese workers... I never understood why... although the Burmese workers did look a little scary, like pirates or something....

[charlesh]

Dear Mr Santa thank you for your correction re: Koori.
For your edification I used the term generically in deference to their sensibilities and not wishing to strain relationships between various tribal groups. I also excluded from this definition those citizens of Oz from a Melanesian, Micronesian, Polynesian background eg. kanacks, Tiwi and Torres Straight Islanders, Tongans, Maoris (Yes I know not first inhabitants).
I am at a loss as how they reared their heads in this thread anyway and regard their inclusion as spurious. Much the same way as your analysis of Batmans purchase (seemed a good deal at the time). I am sure that the Alaska sale, Louisiana purchase, Texas takeover etc. might also fall into the same carpetbagger events in History. I note you did not mention Eddie Marbo and the recent land handbacks of huge tracts of land to the traditional people.
You will also note however that Sth E. Oz consisting of NSW, Vict, SA and Tas and the ACT does constitute a rather large "swag" of the population (65%, 4 of the 6 staes and half of the territories) where the term Koori is used and accepted by most in the community.
Yes while the majority of "full bloods" live in the NT, Nth W W.A. and west of Queensland there are large numbers of others who claim aboriginal ancestry living in the SE and ID themselves as Kooris for various reasons.

Many Indigenous Australians dislike the terms 'Aborigine' and 'Aboriginal' because these terms have been forced on them. They prefer to use words from their own languages. In some languages of south-east Australia (parts of New South Wales and Victoria), the words: coorie, kory, kuri, kooli, koole mean 'person' or 'people'. In the 1960s, the form koori came to be used by Indigenous Australians of these areas to mean 'Aboriginal people' or 'Aboriginal person'

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Austr ... nal+tribes

QED!!! Humble pie allround??

I am also surprised that The Rohingaphiles have not mentioned the annual exodus of Indo fishermen from Lombok, Sumba, Sumbawa who stray into Oz waters, denude the reefs, overfish, get caught, get taken to Fanny Bay or Broome kept for awhile, paid and then repatriated back in a plane so they can repeat the exercise again ad infinitum. In the mean time AQIS has to burn their rat and disease ridden boats, have the health of their staff including defence personnel put at risk from TB, Malaria and other tropical maladies. Almost as ludicrous at the Mexican and Sth American exodus across the wire into the USA.

Santa in your next journey down a chimney in Rohingaland leave some contraceptives!! There maybe far more worthy cases in Burma of a new life elsewhere!

[Khundon1975]

Charlesh wrote.

Dear Mr Santa thank you for your correction re: Koori.
For your edification I used the term generically in deference to their sensibilities and not wishing to strain relationships between various tribal groups.

WHAT UTTER DRIVEL, what about the sensibilities of the peoples set adrift by the Thai navy, or don't they count as human beings with feelings?

I also excluded from this definition those citizens of Oz from a Melanesian, Micronesian, Polynesian background eg. kanacks, Tiwi and Torres Straight Islanders, Tongans, Maoris (Yes I know not first inhabitants).
I am at a loss as how they reared their heads in this thread anyway and regard their inclusion as spurious. Much the same way as your analysis of Batmans purchase (seemed a good deal at the time). I am sure that the Alaska sale, Louisiana purchase, Texas takeover etc. might also fall into the same carpetbagger events in History. I note you did not mention Eddie Marbo and the recent land handbacks of huge tracts of land to the traditional people.

Batman gave a few beads and knives for millions of acres of land, yes a very good deal, but not for the indigenous Australians.

You cannot compare deals and treaties done between governments and states with those done between educated whites who were armed to the teeth and a small group of nomad hunter gatherers.

In 1992 the Australian high court ruled that the Mabo land case was null and void as the concept of “Terra nullius” was invalid.

Eddie Marbo handed back the lands because he had to.
Anyway the land was not his to hand back, it always belonged to the indigenous Australians, and all decent Australians knew it, so it was only a matter of time before they would take their case for ownership to court, and win.


You will also note however that Sth E. Oz consisting of NSW, Vict, SA and Tas and the ACT does constitute a rather large "swag" of the population (65%, 4 of the 6 staes and half of the territories) where the term Koori is used and accepted by most in the community.
Yes while the majority of "full bloods" live in the NT, Nth W W.A. and west of Queensland there are large numbers of others who claim aboriginal ancestry living in the SE and ID themselves as Kooris for various reasons.

Indigenous Australians, of which there are about 520,000 only make up 2.5% of the people in Australia, hardly a “large swag” of the population I think!
You (Australia) only gave them the vote in 1962!.

The Rohingyas have no lands to call their own and no vote in Burma, and were trying to escape the terrible conditions they have been subjected to by a Junta of Evil generals for years.

Many Indigenous Australians dislike the terms 'Aborigine' and 'Aboriginal' because these terms have been forced on them. They prefer to use words from their own languages. In some languages of south-east Australia (parts of New South Wales and Victoria), the words: coorie, kory, kuri, kooli, koole mean 'person' or 'people'. In the 1960s, the form koori came to be used by Indigenous Australians of these areas to mean 'Aboriginal people' or 'Aboriginal person'

The above was pointed out to you in my post, been on Google have you??

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Austr ... nal+tribes

QED!!! Humble pie allround??

Sorry, not all round, only one slice to be eaten, and it's on your plate.

I am also surprised that The Rohingaphiles have not mentioned the annual exodus of Indo fishermen from Lombok, Sumba, Sumbawa who stray into Oz waters, denude the reefs, overfish, get caught, get taken to Fanny Bay or Broome kept for awhile, paid and then repatriated back in a plane so they can repeat the exercise again ad infinitum. In the mean time AQIS has to burn their rat and disease ridden boats, have the health of their staff including defence personnel put at risk from TB, Malaria and other tropical maladies. Almost as ludicrous at the Mexican and Sth American exodus across the wire into the USA.

No one has mentioned the above, because it has Sod all to do with the issue in question.
Start a thread on it if you feel so strongly about it.

You are still missing the point of the thread, namely the terrible state the Rohingyas were in when the Thai navy found them, and the fact that they were cast adrift on the open seas without food, water or any means of propulsion.

Charlesh, ever thought of joining ISOC or the Thai navy?.
With your attitude, your rise through the ranks would be meteoric.

Santa in your next journey down a chimney in Rohingaland leave some contraceptives!! There maybe far more worthy cases in Burma of a new life elsewhere!


Santa if you happen to drop down Charlesh chimney, please leave the following gifts, a large dose of compassion, and a dose of humanity.

Khundon1975.

[charlesh]

I am a little disappointed that u should use the ridicule approach to engage in debate. People are entitled to a view. After all that is what diversity is about and healthy debate promotes mutual understanding about contemporary issues. As for trying to bully/belittle people in writing umh???
I note u have selectively read my comments and have reacted accordingly.
U will note that I too indicated that the Koori issue was not of my doing and one that was obviously included as a red herring. Yes I did use google just to check the origin of your earlier comments.

U seem to lack an understanding of the demographics of Oz as there are lots of people who claim koori/aboriginal ancestry who live in and around major centres such as Melb/Sydney/Adelaide/Hobart which does include a large "swag" of the population. As I indicated also many wish to be referred to as Koori throughout Oz and not just in SE Oz.

By the way not all "Aboriginal" people live in humpies in the bush!!!
Batman was not heavily armed nor part of a large "invasion force" but lobbed up in a whaler (dinghy) from Tas.
I imagine u have regrets about some of the contracts u have signed in the past too. By suggesting these people have been diddled is correct in retrospect but does indicate their attitude at the time in respect to land and possessions in general. So U may wish to reflect on your opinion of them as uneducated savages - tends to make u both patronising, condescending and superior in relation to these people from an earlier time. Note my use of carpetbaggers earlier!

I note also your judgement of the Thai authorities - well done given that the jury is still out and u have made a judgement on unsubstantiated reports. Hardly the Westminster system of justice !

Strange also that u have singled out the Rohingas - yes I know thay were the subject originally of this thread. What is your agenda?? Why not the Karens and the other ethnic minorities that are being persecuted. Their ommission is indeed curious. Compassion fatigue on your part perhaps?

The attempt by these people to relocate can hardly be compared to the Jewish exodus, the Haitian/Cuban/Vietnamese/Kosovar endeavours. Have a good look and ask yourself why??

When u have the time read the works of Thomas Maltheus and try to translate it to the present. U may understand why "wealthy" countries are now more reluctant (including yours) to go down the compassion road and are closely examining options to deal with major unrest (existing and potential) in poor economic times.

[cozza]

sandman67,

Not meaning any offense at all and just out of curiosity sake, what exactly is the "anti Burmese/Lao/Khymer racism that is drilled into every thai every day through school to unsubstantiated rumor"?

I hear of this quite often and hanging around my wifes family and friends have never heard any racist comments.

I am not saying it does not happen, but am just curious if and how you would have experienced this first hand?

Before you get angry at my post, please know that I do really ask out of curiosity and to learn something from someone who I believe would have more knowledge in this type of thing.