737 Max banned from Singapore airspace, grounded worldwide

[Nereus]

737 Max banned from Singapore airspace, grounded worldwide

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... recent_box

SINGAPORE: Singapore’s move to bar Boeing Co 737 Max jets from its airspace dramatically escalates a global crisis of confidence in the aircraft following two crashes in five months.

A day after US regulators stood by the jet’s airworthiness, airlines and aviation authorities from South America to Asia instead opted for a zero-risk approach. The plane has been grounded -- either by national authorities or by individual airlines -- in Brazil, Cayman Islands, China, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Mexico and Singapore.

With Singapore’s move Tuesday, the newest version of Boeing’s best-selling model is now blocked from Asia’s second-busiest international airport and locked out of a key transit hub for flights to China.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore barred any Boeing 737 Max flight in and out of the city-state. The decision dragged airlines including Singapore Airlines Ltd’s SilkAir, China Southern Airlines Co, PT Garuda Indonesia and Shandong Airlines Co into a standoff with the Chicago-based plane maker and the US regulator.

Also see: Doomed 737 'smoked, shuddered', then dived

The similarities between Sunday’s disaster in Ethiopia and an October crash in Indonesia, both involving the Boeing 737 Max aircraft, have spooked travellers and sparked worries that the jet is fatally flawed. Despite the US Federal Aviation Administration’s verdict that the plane remains safe to fly, the model was struck by the fresh wave of groundings that could potentially snowball into lost aircraft sales.

“During the temporary suspension, CAAS will gather more information and review the safety risk associated with the continued operation of the Boeing 737 Max aircraft into and out of Singapore,” the authority said.

The announcement follows Max jet groundings by low-cost Brazilian carrier Gol Linhas Aereas Inteligentes SA and Grupo Aeromexico SAB. Hours earlier, the Mexican carrier had said its Max aircraft were in perfect condition.

The spreading cautionary moves are a reaction to the two deadly catastrophes that have eroded faith in the world’s most widely flown jetliner, even after the FAA said there isn’t conclusive evidence so far to link the crashes.

Dual Crashes

The Ethiopian Airlines jet crashed minutes after takeoff on March 10, killing all 157 people on board. That accident was preceded by a crash of the same model operated by Indonesia’s Lion Air on Oct 29, in which pilots struggled to maintain control following an equipment malfunction. Chicago-based Boeing is racing to roll out software improvements for the aircraft to help prevent a repeat of the Lion Air crash.

Singapore’s ban on 737 Max aircraft, no matter which carrier is operating the planes, is wider than the freeze put in place Monday by China and Indonesia, which both grounded their airlines’ 737 Max 8 aircraft.

Singapore’s suspension includes both the Max 8 and 9 variants and affects foreign carriers that deploy the aircraft for flights into the island-city, the CAAS said. Singapore is monitoring the situation and is in close contact with Boeing as well as the FAA and other aviation regulators, it said.

The 737 Max is the newest version of Boeing’s most important aircraft type, a plane family that generates almost one-third of the company’s operating profit. The narrow-body jet forms the backbone of many global airline fleets that use the model and Airbus SE’s competing A320 line on shorter routes.

[handdrummer]

The Ethiopian plane that crashed was piloted by someone with only 200 hrs. flying time on that plane. US pilots have over 700 hrs. flying time. Maybe they should look into pilot error.

[J.J.B.]

The Ethiopian plane that crashed was piloted by someone with only 200 hrs. flying time on that plane. US pilots have over 700 hrs. flying time. Maybe they should look into pilot error.

This is what blackbox flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders are for. While it's possible you believe US pilots are just superior, it might be prudent to wait for more reliable evidence. The EASA have banned 737 aircraft (a 'plane' is something woodworkers use) for a reason, perhaps the domestic share price of Boeing is of more interest to the FAA.

The truth will out, and pilot error could be the cause. Truly, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Thistle]

The initial article from the BBC stated that the pilot had 8000 flying hours,and was highly regarded,it was the first officer who had only 200 hours,apparently.

[Nereus]

The Ethiopian plane that crashed was piloted by someone with only 200 hrs. flying time on that plane. US pilots have over 700 hrs. flying time. Maybe they should look into pilot error.

Ah, I am not going to buy into this, but will say that I hold a professional pilots licence, albeit helicopters.
The following may be of some interest:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyboga ... 544cb584a5

Ethiopian Airlines said the copilot, Ahmed Nur Mohammod Nur, only had 200 hours of flight time, a sharp contrast with the U.S., where 1,500 hours is required to take the second seat on a commercial plane.

The following is more questionable to me:

The captain, Yared Getachew, 29, was the youngest to command a 737 at Ethiopian Airlines, relatives told the media. He had more than 8,000 hours of flight time, according to the airline, which is a fair amount for his age,

I have no idea about Ethiopian Airlines and their crew training, but simple maths would show that even if he started at 16 years of age, he has accrued a staggering amount of flight hours for his age. There are retired commercial pilots that would be happy with that total number of hours in their logbook! I have personally seen this type of thing in Indonesia, where some pilots must have been born with several thousand hours in their logbook!


As posted by JJ.B., speculation as against knowledgeable discussion is not a good idea.

[PeteC]

....."Tamirat Abera, 25, was walking past the field at the time. He said the plane turned sharply, trailing white smoke and items like clothes and papers, then crashed about 300 meters away."......

The above intrigues me the most at present. A lot of possibilities if that is accurate. Full article below.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... then-dived

[handdrummer]

The Ethiopian plane that crashed was piloted by someone with only 200 hrs. flying time on that plane. US pilots have over 700 hrs. flying time. Maybe they should look into pilot error.

This is what blackbox flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders are for. While it's possible you believe US pilots are just superior, it might be prudent to wait for more reliable evidence. The EASA have banned 737 aircraft (a 'plane' is something woodworkers use) for a reason, perhaps the domestic share price of Boeing is of more interest to the FAA.

The truth will out, and pilot error could be the cause. Truly, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I wasn't claiming US pilot superiority and it's quite common, in non-British countries, for an airplane to be called a plane. In the meantime, buy Boeing stock boys, the shares will rise again.

[HHTel]

noun
noun: plane; plural noun: planes
1.
an airplane.
"a plane crash"
synonyms: aircraft, craft, flying machine; More

[Ralfredo]

US pilots have over 700 hrs. flying time.

So when a US pilot flies his first flight in a for him/her new aeroplane model he/she already has over 700 hours of flying time in that particular model. The USA is indeed fantastic...

[europtimiste]

Within 5 months 2 737 Max crashed shortly after takeoff. Boeing is not reliable.

[Nereus]

Just a bit of background on Boeing 737 series aircraft. A long running and proven design with a near perfect safety record, especially considering the number built and in service. The Max 8 is the latest version.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
https://phys.org/news/2019-03-ethiopian ... g-max.html

Ethiopian Airlines crash: What is the MCAS system on the Boeing 737 Max 8?
March 12, 2019 by Chris Lefkow

Similarities between the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes have focused attention on an anti-stalling system used in the new Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft.

The Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) is an automated safety feature on the 737 Max 8 designed to prevent the plane from entering into a stall, or losing lift.

Both the Lion Air jet, which crashed in October, killing 189 people, and the Ethiopian Airlines aircraft, which went down on Sunday, leaving 157 people dead, were fitted with the system.

Both planes experienced similarly erratic steep climbs and descents and fluctuating airspeeds before crashing shortly after takeoff.

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), while noting the similarities between the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines accidents, stressed that it was too early to draw any conclusions.

MCAS was introduced by Boeing on the 737 Max 8 because its heavier, more fuel-efficient engines changed the aerodynamic qualities of the workhorse aircraft and can cause the plane's nose to pitch up in certain conditions during manual flight.

Angle of attack sensors on the aircraft tell the MCAS to automatically point the nose of the plane down if it is in danger of going into a stall.

This is done through horizontal stabilizers on the plane's tail which are activated by the aircraft's flight control computer.

According to Boeing, MCAS does not control the plane during normal flight but "improves the behavior of the airplane" during "non-normal" situations.

These could be steep turns or after takeoff when a plane is climbing with flaps up at speeds that are close to stall speed.

According to the flight data recorder, the pilots of Lion Air Flight 610 struggled to control the aircraft as the automated MCAS system repeatedly pushed the plane's nose down following takeoff.

The pilots of the Ethiopian Airlines plane reported similar difficulty before the aircraft plunged into the ground shortly after takeoff.

Software updates

A preliminary report on the Lion Air Flight 610 accident blamed it in part on a faulty angle of attack sensor that triggered the MCAS system and automatically forced the plane's nose down.

Pilots flying the same Lion Air plane the previous day had managed to override the automated flight control system.
Boeing came in for some criticism after the Lion Air crash for allegedly failing to adequately inform 737 pilots about the functioning of MCAS or provide training about the system.

Following the Lion Air crash, Boeing issued a bulletin to airlines operating the 737 Max 8 advising pilots how to override the MCAS system.

The US aircraft manufacturer issued a statement on Monday saying it was too early to understand the cause of the Ethiopian Airlines accident.

Boeing also said it was working on software updates to the MCAS system which would be deployed across the 737 Max fleet.

It said procedures already exist to "safely handle the unlikely event of erroneous data coming from an angle of attack (AOA) sensor," the suspected cause of the Lion Air crash.

"The pilot will always be able to override the flight control law (MCAS) using electric trim or manual trim," the aircraft manufacturer said.

A growing list of countries have grounded their 737 Max aircraft after the two deadly crashes in just five months.
Boeing has described the Max series as its fastest-selling family of planes, with more than 5,000 orders placed to date from about 100 customers.

But not since the 1970s—when the McDonnell Douglas DC-10 suffered successive fatal incidents—has a new model been involved in two deadly accidents in such a short period.
............................................................................................
"Angle of Attack" simply refers to the angle between the lift producing wing and the relative airflow. Exceeding the designed angle, usually no more than around 15 degrees, will cause the wing to "stall" and loose lift.
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
As usual there is vast amounts of speculation on one of the aviation blogs. The following is a good evaluation by a poster that actually knows how the system works:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/619 ... ca-40.html

While there is not yet sufficient information to draw a clear link between the ET accident that is the subject of this thread and MCAS I am deeply troubled by the amount of misinformation regarding MCAS that is being spread here. Reluctantly I offer the explanation below without any suggestion that this system contributed to the tragedy in Ethiopia this last weekend. The truth will be revealed by the recorder data and the full investigation. I strongly implore those who do not know MCAS details to stop providing incorrect information here or anywhere else. Posing questions is fine, but please do not state as fact that about which you are not sufficiently knowledgeable.

MCAS Operation Clarification

MCAS is triggered when all of the following are true:
A. Sensed AOA exceeds a flight condition based activation threshold
B. Flaps are fully retracted (i.e., up)
C. Autopilot is not engaged

When triggered, MCAS commands nose down stabilizer as a function of how much AOA has exceeded the activation threshold and the current Mach number. For large exceedance of the MCAS activation AOA threshold, MCAS will command 2.5 degrees of stabilizer at low Mach number but less than 1/3rd of that at cruise Mach number (gradual Mach number based schedule between). For a lesser exceedance of the MCAS activation AOA threshold the size of the stabilizer increment will be proportionally less. MCAS stabilizer command will be stopped immediately upon pilot activation of pitch trim. (Pilot trim input also serves as MCAS reset - see next paragraph.)

Once MCAS has commanded one increment of stabilizer motion, it will not command more until it has been reset. MCAS is reset if any of the following occur:
1. Pilot makes a manual trim command. (MCAS will not re-activate until there have been 5 continuous seconds without pilot trim command.)
2. AOA drops below MCAS activation threshold and MCAS has run stabilizer in the airplane nose up direction taking out the increment of airplane nose down command it inserted earlier.
3. Autopilot is engaged and then disengaged.

Without pilot trim input, MCAS will not run the stab more than one increment (up to 2.5 degrees) unless MCAS is reset via either 2 or 3 above.

Talk of MCAS running the stabilizer for 10 seconds, pausing for 5 seconds, and then running it again repeatedly without pilot trim input are patently incorrect.

[Nereus]

Thailand bans Boeing 737 MAX flights for 7 days

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/ ... recent_box

The Civil Aviation Authority of Thailand said on Wednesday it is suspending the use of the Boeing Co's 737 MAX 9 due to safety concerns.

The regulator said it will temporarily suspend the use of Thai Lion Air's Boeing 737 MAX 9s for seven days, starting on Thursday and will continue to investigate safety measures.

Thai Lion Air's three MAX 9 jets will be affected.

Thailand is the last country in Asia where the jets are registered to issue a suspension, following the fatal crash of a MAX 8 jet in Ethiopia on Sunday.

Thai airlines do not operate MAX 8 jets.

Despite Boeing's assurances in the wake of the disaster, the European Union, Britain and India joined China and other countries grounding the plane or banning it from their airspace as they await the results of the crash investigation.

The semi-autonomous Chinese city's Civil Aviation Department (CAD) said it was imposing a temporary suspension from 6 pm local time (5pm in Thailand) on Wednesday until further notice on "operation of Boeing B737 MAX aircraft into, out of and over Hong Kong".

The ban is "solely a precautionary measure to ensure aviation safety and protect the public", a CAD spokesman added.
The department added it had been in close contact in the past few days with the US Federal Aviation Administration and relevant organisations, including two airlines -- India's SpiceJet and Globus Airlines of Russia -- that have recently used the 737 MAX for flights to Hong Kong.

SpiceJet had defended the jet on Tuesday, describing it as a "highly sophisticated aircraft".
Hong Kong flag carrier Cathay Pacific does not have any 737 MAX aircraft in its fleet.

On Sunday, a new Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX 8 went down minutes into a flight to Nairobi, killing all 157 people on board.

The crash came after a Lion Air jet of the same model went down in Indonesia in October, claiming 189 lives.

Several airlines have grounded the MAX 8s in their fleets, but many others are continuing to fly the plane pending an investigation into the crash and possible guidance from Boeing itself.

[sateeb]

Within 5 months 2 737 Max crashed shortly after takeoff. Boeing is not reliable.

Wow...You really should consider putting yourself forward as the resident aviation expert on france 24 news channel given your aviation insight and expertise

[europtimiste]

Within 5 months 2 737 Max crashed shortly after takeoff. Boeing is not reliable.

Wow...You really should consider putting yourself forward as the resident aviation expert on france 24 news channel given your aviation insight and expertise

No, let me laugh at all those wise comments from aviation experts, Brits, Yanks and who else ??????
Must be a human error if pilots are not Brits or Yanks.

[caller]

From what I have understood, Boeing have created a new airline on the cheap by modifying an existing 737, being fully aware at all times of the affect of their modifications on the new planes performance. It seems to me that they should have stopped there.

Instead, the plan appears to have been to create software to manage the identified risk associated with the modifications they made.

Seems a decidedly dodgy strategy to me.

I think this plane is history because surely an aircraft with such inherent faults should never be allowed to fly?