Politically In Correct, Racist, or Patriotic (UK Not OK!)

[red dwarf]

Some of the comments which were totally nothing to do with the thread YOU THINK THE UK IS OK ?made my blood heat up!

Above is The St Georges cross the flag of England My Home and a country I have fought for.
But if I wish to fly the flag of my country in my country I am categorized as a racist because to fly the flag of my country I will offend the multitude of Muslim immigrants who flock to the land of free money and houses and demand everything they desire.
If they don’t get every thing they scream discrimination as loud as they can. The St Georges cross can no longer be flown from churches, town halls, schools or the rear bumper of your car or be displayed in all its glory on St Georges day without the immigrant community raising hell, Yet they are allowed to burn the English flag in the streets of England , fly their own countries flag containing crescent moon and star etc, start riots, attack private property, petrol bomb law enforcement officers and innocent old the age pensioners in packs like dogs, demand local councils to remove bollards with images of animals because it offends their ALLAH and just to top it all claim unemployment benefits and travel to Afghanistan and shoot live ammunition at British and allied troops while the labour government are fully aware of the fact,
Just because some one is patriotic does not mean they are racist, just because they support a right wing party such as the NF does not mean they are racist. Maybe they are tired of all the left wing brown nosed do gooders ass licking the immigrant spongers who flock in their thousands to the UK and Other Eu countries

TTM 2 pence worth

This sound like Horse Shit to me.

Can you really see HSBC allowing people to move into property in which they hold the deeds. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

And who says it will be the Patels or the Kumars, maybe this was put around by the National Front. Shocked Shocked

Mike.

Split Lids 2 pence worth

Jaime wrote:
tuktukmike wrote:
And who says it will be the Patels or the Kumars, maybe this was put around by the National Front.


I was kind of thinking along the sames lines as you Mike when I read essbee's response, so I'm glad someone else got in first - I didn't think there was any need to bring racial slurs about hygiene into the discussion. When talking about dodgy hygiene standards there's no need to look much further than our wonderful LoS, eh? Maybe we should be more worried that Khun Somchai and family may be ushered into our vacant houses.....


and you didnt think there was any need to bring in racial slurs into the topic Embarassed Embarassed

A name is a racial slur
Bring Back Charly bleedin Williams

The coloured comedian from yorkshire who said the pidgeons in Trafalgar sqaure always said to him look at the c$$n

Let me ask the Expat / immigrant comunity

Q how much unemployment benefit can you claim in Thailand?
Q how many council houses can you clain in Thailand ?
Q do you think its fair you cant claim any thing in Thailand ?
Q why should thousands of immigrants be allowed to live in luxury off the backs of the british tax payer so that the labour government can stay in power ?

The Uk is on a down hill spiral and is out of control

Just for the record I am married to a Thai Lady I am Not racist but any one who claims to be 100% none racist, free of prejudice, totally politically correct is talking out of their rectum.

[red dwarf]

just a quik note "TTM's Rectum must be HUGE"

[Wanderlust]

red dwarf,
As I no longer live in the UK it is difficult for me to say how things are there now; however legal immigration is not the problem, and never has been. Illegal immigration is, of course, a problem, but that doesn't mean to say that those who are in the UK illegally are problem individuals - if anything I would have thought that they are likely to keep their heads down and noses clean to avoid being detected. The UK government has to deal with the problem of illegal immigration, and there are various possible courses it could follow; the obvious one is to just 'send them back' but to do this they have to jump through a number of hoops, some self imposed and others imposed by the EU, to ensure the safety of the illegals, and also to uphold a very important British concept of fairness; while this process is being undertaken these people have to live somewhere, often whole families with no previous criminal record, so prison is not an appropriate place for them, even if there was room in the prisons, so the problem is passed on to local authorities as regards housing them. The other, often easier and cheaper solution is to actually grant them permission to stay so they become legal citizens and start work and paying taxes. Over the years both legal and illegal immigrants have been vital to maintain certain parts of the economy, such as street cleaning, nursing, public transport and the like, and very often jobs that are not being filled by the unemployed for one reason or another. The debate is whether the immigrants now are actually contributing in the same way as their predecessors, but I believe this debate is being over hyped and given more media attention that it really deserves, thus giving the general public a perception that it is a bigger problem than it really is, and naturally egged on by the opposition and jumped on by them at every possible opportunity - that is their role. If someone could actually provide some statistics from a reliable source I think they would reveal this to be true. Obviously there are certain localised areas where the problem will actually be just that, a problem, such as port towns and some local authority areas, but I would guess that 95% of the UK, both in area and population, is totally unaffected by immigration.
The problems that were amongst the reasons I left the UK in 1998 was more a slacker attitude and a lack of respect that seemed to be growing daily, towards the older generations and personal property, and this wasn't coming from immigrants. The youth are always going to have a bit of an attitude, but it had become more than that - increasingly violent and aggressive behaviour iowards others for no reason. I can understand those who get frustrated at being unemployed despite their best efforts but this appeared to me to be something entirely different.
Some of the points you have made, rd, I find very hard to believe, such as immigrant communities 'raising hell' about the English flag being flown, and for sure anyone burning said flag can be arrested, and rightly so. As far as I am aware the only people who have been proven to be involved in either terrorism or the wars in Muslim countries emanating from the UK were not immigrants but full blown British citizens.
And your questions;
Q how much unemployment benefit can you claim in Thailand? It doesn't exist at all, not even for Thais so the comparison does not work.
Q how many council houses can you clain in Thailand ? I refer to my answer above.
Q do you think its fair you cant claim any thing in Thailand ? Seeing as the Thais can't either then again it is irrelevant.
Q why should thousands of immigrants be allowed to live in luxury off the backs of the british tax payer so that the labour government can stay in power ? They shouldn't and as far as I am aware, don't. And if you think a few thousand immigrants can keep a government in power then I'm afraid you know nothing about the electoral system. If anything the 'immigrant problem' is what is likely to bring the current giovernment down eventually.
Racism, as someone else already said on the other thread, is too widely bandied around; just using an offensive slang regarding someone's origins is not racist; denying someone something on the basis of their origins (not just skin colour) is racist. The National Front and their more abhorrent brothers the British Movement cannot be called racist on the basis of their manifestos per se, but the actions of many of their followers can be, hence they will always be regarded as racists, but they are allowed to exist.
Everyone has prejudice, they can't avoid it, but in most people it is called taste; I have a prejudice against Burberry clothing for example, that's my taste. However when it comes to people I judge them as individuals, not as a group - everyone is different.

[Guess]

red dwarf,
And your questions;
Q how much unemployment benefit can you claim in Thailand? It doesn't exist at all, not even for Thais so the comparison does not work.
Q how many council houses can you clain in Thailand ? I refer to my answer above.
Q do you think its fair you cant claim any thing in Thailand ? Seeing as the Thais can't either then again it is irrelevant.
Q why should thousands of immigrants be allowed to live in luxury off the backs of the british tax payer so that the labour government can stay in power ? They shouldn't and as far as I am aware, don't. And if you think a few thousand immigrants can keep a government in power then I'm afraid you know nothing about the electoral system. If anything the 'immigrant problem' is what is likely to bring the current giovernment down eventually.

The point Red is making echoes my feelings. That is why I came to Thailand. I have always worked and paid my way in society. I noticed this trend towards scounging in the UK many years ago and it is not just first generation immigrants. I am not going to label any race or country as being the worst culprits but the truth is that many nations including those that have never in the past been anything to do with the British Empire have been able to get int to Britain and claim handouts that people like myself and Red Dwarf who have worked and paid for it.

I think the questions asked make the point clearly. The answer to all of them is zilch. If that was the case in the UK (and I believe some other countries inh the EU hav the same problem) this situation where one person does the decent thing all his life and works and pays taxes only to see the fruits of his labour being handed to some lazy incompitent moron wih no moral backbone and no shame who is unwilling do do anykind of work if he/she can avoid it.

This has nothing to do with racism or specific nationalities it is about scroungers abbetted by the UK fake administration (where rigged elections have no efffect at all on the future).

If I was in charge of the UK I would cut off Social Security payment immediately. The vast billions saved would be able to fund homes for people that genuinely could not work and had no family to care for them.

[STEVE G]

The St. Georges cross is the official flag of the Church of England and cannot be deemed racist if flown in that capacity.
It is unfortunate that it also has been used by ultra right wing organisations such as the BNP, which is where all the problems arise.

[Wanderlust]

Guess,
I agree that the lazy good-for-nothings who just scrounge off the state should be dealt with, but I believe from my previous studies in Economics that the numbers involved are vastly exaggerated by the media, and the idea of scrapping all benefits is absolutely ludicrous. The majority of people who are listed as unemployed are normally 'between jobs', and are not long term claimants. The slightly bigger problem is the numbers of single mothers claiming benefits as this is something that can continue for a significant period and is also taking a taxpayer out of circulation, but even then it makes up a tiny percentage of the Social Security budget, and very likely covered by the previous generations in their families who paid National insurance. The extreme cases you read about of those are abnormal yet the press would have you believe that it is the norm. The problem with red dwarf's post is when you bring the issue of nationality into the equation, which as you say has nothing to do with it, and does not help deal with a relatively small problem. If people actually look at their own personal experiences when living in the UK the chances are that the hardest working people they have come across are 1st, 2nd etc generation immigrants, and the troublemakers scrounging are generally not. The Eastern European immigrants is I believe the most recent hot topic which has caused the most debate regarding benefits, but as with all of these things the numbers involved are minor in fact. Kneejerk politics never actually work, and most of the right wing solutions just heap the problem onto someone else - the NIMBY reaction (Not In My Back Yard). I think there is scope for other EU nations to do more, but it is not something that can be made to disappear; slashing benefits would just lead to more people living on the streets, which may eventually have your desired affect of preventing any immigration, but in the meantime making the streets less safe or pleasant, and as I said, just pushing them elsewhere. Creating an underclass is never a good thing for any country - just look at the USA and it's crime rates.

[caller]

Wow - hot topic!!

Red Dwarf - you are racist, albeit selective! No getting away from the fact. Thats your choice, don't be in denial.

Are we all forgetting 9/11 and 7/7? Without doubt the most defining acts in recent history. Also, the editor stabbed to death in Holland for criticsing Islam?

The visable impact of Muslim refugees, especially the woman? Certainly in the area where I work, the last 3/4 years has seen a dramatic increase in the Muslim population.

There is, without a doubt a mood shift in the UK, often led by prominent black politicians who have stated outright that multi-culteralism (i.e. allowing "ghettos", not pushing for integration into western culture etc) doesn't work and that serious debate needs to take place.

Me, I'm in favour of a quota system as per Australia and being merciless with everyone else.

There is genuine concern concern about the thousands now arriving legally from Eastern Europe, coupled with rising unemployment.

The Countries immigration service has been a mess for a quarter of a century. No-one knows how many immigration offenders there are in the UK, not helped by the rules and a legal system that means appeals against deportation can take 3/4 years. Those that fail then disappear. We need to introduce a more rigid process immediately, but the Human Rights Act and other things (chattering classes) get in the way. Do as the Dutch do. Hold all new arrivals, make a decision within a week or so, in or out and if out, sent home, no ifs, no buts.

I could go on and on, how long have you got?

One in three households in the UK is in receipt of some sort of benefit and the biggest loss of revenue to this country is excise fraud.

The flag of St George is currently flown everywhere and those authorities that have tried to impact on this have been ridiculed.

Thats my lot. Too much like work for me.

Phew.

[caller]

Sorry, forget to add, we all have our prejudices, its a perfect person that doesn't. I don't care for the Muslim religion for a few reasons - its medieval, how it treats women, lack of tolerance and the visual impact.

Modernise and embrace and accept the rest of the world and I would be much happier.

Also forgot to add that fraud in the UK costs the average taxpayer 80 pounds a year in tax. It is not a victimless crime.

[Guess]

Wanderlust,

I agree that certain parties exagerate the figures for their own ends but my judgement is made on the sample I have seen with my own eyes and bearing that most of my life in England was in middle to affluent areas where I would expect less scrounging.

I realise it is only hearsay that areas like Liverpool and the poor suburbs of London and other major cities are a greater toll on the tax payer. However stats that I have seen back it up.

I would like to see a breakdown of these figures regarding public spending for myself. I believe though that I would not be told the truth by a government that obviously has a hidden manifesto that has only tenuous links with it's published electorial manifesto.

As for the "between jobs" description. That also is highly abused by both the incompetent local authorities and the scroungers themselves.

I remeber that when leaving high school many sixteen year olds were lured into jobs to counter the employment shortage rather than recieve further education.

The official figures for unemployment then were about 500,000. I know that the counting criteria has been modified but surely that 500,000 represents all people who were either unemployable in any role or between jobs.

I do not know the figures now but know that at one time 3,000,000 was reached. I also remember walking to work in my first summer holiday job between high school and passing the dole office on the way. There was always a queue waiting for the office to open. When I arrived at work I was often told I had to do my job and stand in for someone else aswell because they had phoned in sick or the new starter had not arrived.

I realised then that there was something seriously wrong with the nation's employment policies evn in those days. What I am hearing now is that the situation has deteriorated and is spiralling out of control.

Anyway I have to go now. I have work to do. Unpaid of course.

[essbee]

Havn't I started something............ all I said was Patel !!

[red dwarf]

Some good point’s wanderlust but no need to write another thesis on the forum “as usualâ€

[caller]

Actually Red Dwarf, the vast majority of immigrants never leave the South East and didn't really start, with a few obvious exceptions in metroplitan areas, until they were sent for housing elsewhere as there wasn't any space left in London!

Local Authorities were being prosecuted because they weren't housing large family groups under the one roof, as required by legislation, simply because there wasn't any available - a real catch 22.

Also suggest you read my last post.

This is a very emotive subject to a lot of people and whilst I recognise that there are inherant difficulties in accommodating a large influx of peoples to these shores, I believe we should continue for those genuinely in need or where we need them, there just needs a greater degree of transparency about whats happening, who to allow and if the situation improves in their homeland for them to return. Thats the bit that doesn't often happen.

Its also a fact that a lot of the refugees that arrive here, unless shipped out by the UK for humane reasons, have the means to pay to do so, so are often not the ones that are really in need, thats never given much thought. Or they are economic migrants, here to make as much as they can before returning home. And that does include ripping off the welfare state.

If you want to get into politic by having a pop at Tone, remember it was Maggies Govt that told employers not to check if potential employees were legit or not, the theory being that the money they earned would be spent and wind its way back into the treasury's coffers one way or another. Particularly true of the service industry - not a lot of people know that.

Whats this got to do with Hua Hin, by the way?

[roberto]

Red Dwarf, you are racist, your post is rubbish, your facts are laughable and your assertions so generalised as to be meaningless. Isn't Thailand lucky to have you......good job they are not as racist as you...........you immigrant scum....just here to use and abuse their women, get drunk on cheap beer, live like a lord for a part of your life and contribute nothing to the country........sound familiar. Get a grip you are an economic migrant the same as most to the UK. Oh here's quiz which ethnic group has the highest qualifications gained, lowest unemployment rates and lowest presence in Uk jails..................Chinese in UK. Most indians and pakistanis and west indians came to Uk to do the jobs Brits couldn't or wouldn't do. In mills in factories and in hospitals throughout the Uk. I owe my life to the skills of a muslim doctor. But of course he only works the long hours in accident and emergency so he can fund Al Quaida and go on his holidays to kill british troops. Try using your own intelligence and stop parroting the racist lies of the BNP and NF or do you really see yourself following in the wonderful tradition of Adolph Hitler...............oh and wasn't he responsible for a lot of British deaths and the concentration camps or don't you believe that either.

[Lev]

I know this is the Foo section and I realise this is a sensitive topic but lets leave the name calling, racism and childish comments off the forums please and conduct the discussion in a civilised manner before it turns into a slanging match.

Thanks.

[Wanderlust]

red dwarf,
An issue like this is so complex that I am afraid that both simplistic answers on here and simplistic policies by governments cannot possibly be good enough, but apologies for running on besides that. Hopefully the conversation has moved on from being divisive as regards nationality because the only thing that needs to be remembered is that people are people, wherever they hail from; some will be lazy, some will be dynamic, some will be lucky etc etc. Where you are born is also luck of the draw. Those of us born in the UK are extremely lucky, but at the same time are always facing the various economic and social problems that come around first, by virtue of being the first industrialised nation. We also are paying, and have paid the price for our empire building in the past. As long as we retain our decency and sense of fairness then the UK will always be a great country, but it is sometimes spoiled by a few rotten apples. Whether they be scroungers or racist bigots they are in a small minority and should not be allowed to taint the nation.