The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by hhinner » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:32 am

Thanks for that Buksida. An interesting article with some interesting comments. After reading it I'm not sure how anyone could prove there is no cp in the blockchain (not saying I believe there is).

Here are just 3 links of many that I think are quite interesting.
http://www.righto.com/2014/02/ascii-ber ... raphs.html about information encoded in the blockchain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7 ... nside_the/.
https://cryptograffiti.info/.




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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:21 am

The problem is largely that mainstream media is on a mission to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt regarding cryptos so will latch onto anything negative and blow it out of all proportions.

This is probably because MSM is funded by wall street types and billionaire bankers who see decentralized digital money as a threat to their business models. Sadly the majority of the population believe most of what they read in the media and more of what they read on insidious social media platforms.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:30 am

ICOs get 30 extra days to inform SEC

A draft version of a royal decree regulating transactions related to digital assets will grant issuers of initial coin offerings (ICOs) 90 days to inform the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) of their plans before the law takes effect.

The decree, which was approved by the cabinet on Tuesday, extends the period from 60 days initially.

The amendment was made after market participants complained 60 days was not a reasonable amount of time, said Finance Minister Apisak Tantivorawong.

The bill narrows the definition of digital assets to cryptocurrencies and digital tokens, removing other potential asset classes such as electronic data, as specified by the ministry in a previous draft.

Investors who make digital-asset trades will be liable for a 7% value-added tax (VAT) payment, on top of a 15% withholding tax on capital gains when the new law is enforced.

The VAT will still apply even if digital trades produce no gains.

Once approved, the law will be published in the Royal Gazette.

Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak said earlier he expected to see the law come into force this month.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/fi ... inform-sec
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:32 am

New Taxes Could Spell End of Cryptocurrency Trading in Thailand
Thailands new Royal Decree on regulating the transactions of digital assets was passed on March 27, granting potential ICOs an additional 30 days to inform the SEC of their plans while raising the capital gains tax and adding 7% VAT to all digital trades.

https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/03/29/new- ... -thailand/
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by hhinner » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:26 pm

Maybe I'm being a bit thick, but unless you buy and sell in the same exchange, and maintain a wallet in that exchange, how do they know how much profit or loss you've made. If, for example, I have a private wallet on my PC with crypto from several sources at several prices, then transfer some to an exchange for sale, how can they know anything about the transaction other than the selling price? OK, charge VAT, but capital gains?

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:32 pm

Right, it is a bit of a logistical nightmare, no idea how they are going to calculate it. Either way it will send most traders out of Thai exchanges and into friendlier ones in Hong Kong or Singapore where such taxes do not exist.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:30 am

Making news elsewhere - exodus to Singapore already happening ...

Thailand's military regime plans to tax cryptocurrencies
Thailand's military government wants to regulate the nascent cryptocurrency market, and slap investors dabbling in digital coins with taxes to prevent the expanding sector from being used for money laundering, tax evasion, and other criminal activities.

The move was announced by Finance Minister Apisak Tantivorawong on Mar. 27 after a weekly cabinet meeting.

Under new laws to regulate cryptocurrencies and digital tokens, investors will have to pay 7% value added tax on all crypto trades, and a 15% capital gains tax on their returns.

The latest measures follow the Bank of Thailand's ban in February on local banks investing and trading in cryptocurrencies. That move caused uncertainty among local investors.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Econom ... currencies
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:21 am

Crypto fans urge capital gains rethink

Crypto enthusiasts and issuers of initial coin offerings have asked the Finance Ministry to delay or waive the capital gains tax to be imposed on ICOs and cryptocurrency trading, aiming to assist the fund-raising process for startups domestically.

The hope is that the Revenue Department will consider a tax policy that helps support the digital asset ecosystem and ensure greater competitiveness compared with regional markets, said Thuntee Sukchotrat, chief executive of JIBEX, a cryptocurrency exchange owned by JIB Computer Group Co Ltd.

Tax could be an obstacle for startups and the fund-raising process, given that startups planning to raise funds in Thailand could opt to look at other places because of stringent regulations here, Mr Thuntee said.

He said JIBEX still plans to launch its cryptocurrency wallet service this month and cryptocurrency trading in June, with the exchange adhering to forthcoming ICO regulations.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ne ... ns-rethink
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Nereus » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:48 am

Tax relief for digital assets a non-starter

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ne ... on-starter

The Revenue Department has rebuffed a request by digital asset operators to scrap a tax-collecting agency's plan to impose a 15% withholding tax on capital gains and returns from putting money into such assets.

The 15% withholding tax for digital asset trades is appropriate because the Revenue Department does not want to support retail investors trading in such assets, said Prasong Poontaneat, director-general of the department and the designated permanent secretary for finance.

His comment came after digital asset associations and operators submitted a letter to Deputy Prime Minister Somkid Jatusripitak asking the government to rethink the enforcement of a royal decree to regulate digital asset transactions -- particularly the withholding tax, as it could be an obstacle to startup fund-raising.

Finance Minister Apisak Tantivorawong told the associations the law was necessary, Mr Prasong said.

The royal decree is expected to take effect soon after winning the Council of State's endorsement, he said.

The law is aimed at protecting retail investors from losses in trading digital assets and preventing such assets from being used for money laundering, he said.

Investors who make digital-asset-related trades will be liable for a 7% value-added tax (VAT) payment from the trading fee, on top of the 15% withholding tax on capital gains and returns from such investments, when the new law is enforced.

The bill narrows the definition of digital assets to cryptocurrencies and digital tokens, removing other potential asset classes such as electronic data, as specified by the ministry in a previous draft.

Mr Prasong said the law requires initial coin offering (ICO) issuers to comply with Know Your Customer (KYC) practice, which lets authorities identify fund-raisers who must remit to the Revenue Department.

The 15% withholding tax on digital asset transactions is charged at the same rate as interest tax, he said, adding that authorities are not worried about claims that Singapore offers a more attractive tax climate than Thailand and that fund-raisers could flee to the city-state.

An informed source at the Finance Ministry said the Securities and Exchange Commission will issue organic law to supervise digital assets after the royal decree is enforced.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Nereus » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:12 pm

Bitcoin frenzy eases as big players muscle into market

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/wo ... t#cxrecs_s

LONDON/NEW YORK/SINGAPORE: After bouncing up, falling down and keeping investors on the edges of their seats, bitcoin may be maturing into a period of relatively boring stability, experts say.

A worldwide wave of regulation has led to a collapse in trading volumes. Cryptocurrency advertisements are disappearing from top internet pages, and bitcoin no longer dominates Google searches.

As investors try to figure out what bitcoin wants to be when it grows up, the best-known cryptocurrency is going through somewhat of an existential crisis.

"It needs a new narrative," said Nicholas Colas, New York-based founder of investment research firm DataTrek. "There is every chance that if there is some sort of institutional involvement, there could be a move higher."

Bitcoin rallied 25% in April after crashing 70% from a high near $20,000 late last year.

The cryptocurrency landscape has indeed changed. Mom-and-pop investors who drove bitcoin's skyrocket rise in 2017 have been pushed aside by government bans on trading, and replaced by cryptocurrency funds, wealthy individuals and established financial firms.

The bigger players can make bigger moves, but their trades are often obscured by screens on over-the-counter (OTC) brokerages and matching platforms.

They are also less likely to chase sudden swings in bitcoin's value, being more interested in the potential of unproven but promising blockchain technology.

Average daily traded volumes across cryptocurrency exchanges fell to $9.1 billion in March and to $7.4 billion in the first half of April, compared with almost $17 billion in December, according to data compiled by crypto analysis website CryptoCompare.

Several exchanges saw their daily trading volumes drop by more than half between December and March, including Bitfinex, Poloniex, Coinbase and Bitstamp, the data shows.

Cryptocurrencies' biggest-ever trading day was Dec 22, when volumes topped $30 billion, according to CryptoCompare.

Reshaping the market

The theory that bigger institutions will make bitcoin markets less volatile and more liquid has grown as new OTC exchanges spring up, carrying names such as Circle, Octagon Strategy, Cumberland and Kraken.

Digital exchange Gemini's new block trading product allows high-volume trades that will be invisible to other traders until the orders are filled.

Cumberland, one of the biggest block traders, has counterparties in more than 35 countries and quotes two-way prices in about 35 crypto assets.

Gatecoin, a Hong Kong-based crypto exchange, saw retail volumes plunge from peaks of $100 million a day last September, said Aurelien Menant, its founder and chief executive.

But, he said, as institutional players enter the market, OTC trades hidden from view have pushed up overall volumes in a way that doesn't show up in data. Gatecoin also operates an OTC platform.

Few institutions have gone public about their plans to trade cryptocurrencies, and many asset managers say they still aren't sure the digital currency is more than a fad.

But a Thomson Reuters survey this week found one in five financial institutions is considering trading cryptocurrencies in the next 12 months. Of those, 70% said they planned to start trading in the next three to six months.

In the meantime, the price of bitcoin may be stabilising, at least on paper. The futures market shows bitcoin staying nearly flat -- between $8,900 and $9,050 -- until September.

Gatecoin's Menant, however, is considerably more bullish. He reckons the currency might end the year above $100,000, but acknowledges that's a gamble.

On April 8, volume sagged to $4.6 billion, the weakest day since last October, according to the data.

Underlying value

Joe Duncan, founder of Singapore-based Fintech firm Duncan Capital, expects to see retail investors return to trading as governments slowly relax their cryptocurrency rules.

"But bitcoin could still lose some market dominance," Mr Duncan said.

Thomas Lee, managing partner and co-founder of Fundstrat Global Advisors in New York, said the bitcoin market is languishing in a "purgatory" phase somewhere between a bear and a bull market. He predicted that could continue until at least September.

One issue is that although many of the big institutions are curious about how bitcoin's underlying blockchain technology could revolutionise the financial sector, bitcoin isn't widely accepted as currency and has no intrinsic value.

That, and the currency's intense volatility, make it challenging for investors to forecast a price.
Some analysts think bitcoin will retain a premium as a security, like gold, in the digital world, while other cryptocurrencies are used for commerce.

Others see it as just another asset.

"One of the reasons to own cryptocurrencies is because they are an effective hedge," said Sam Doctor, a data analyst at New York-based Fundstrat, a research firm whose founder is a well-known bitcoin bull predicting large rises this year. "Until something happens to disprove that thesis, you aren't looking to sell them so long as other asset classes are falling."
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by Nereus » Thu May 03, 2018 9:45 am

JFin Coin slumps to investors' dismay

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/fi ... ors-dismay

JFin Coin's maiden trading day in the secondary market ended on a sour note Wednesday, with the price dropping over 50% from February's initial coin offering (ICO) launch.

The sale price stood at 3.10 baht per token as of press time, down from 6.60 baht during the ICO on Feb 14. The token peaked at 6.45 baht before plummeting, much to the dismay of early investors who had already endured a month-long delay before trading finally got under way.

Trading volume on Coin Asset stood at 1.66 million JFin Coins.

J Ventures, which is offering the tokens, mapped out in its white paper a plan to use currently trending blockchain technology to create a way of providing loans to people spurned by banks for reasons ranging from their credit history to low income.

Yet the company was criticised by early investors for delaying trading and switching exchanges from Thai Digital Asset Exchange (TDAX) to Coin Asset -- another local digital asset exchange with much lower liquidity -- and barely communicating with those who had bought in or engaged in promotional work once the ICO had closed.

The company explained the trading delay by saying it was waiting for the government to clarify ICO policies.

Yet investors flocked to social media to vent after the company waited until after the ICO to release a financial report announcing that it was saddled with large debt.

J Ventures is a financial services subsidiary of Jay Mart Plc, which operates in the wholesale and retail sectors for mobile phones and technology accessories.

ICO transactions are similar to crowdfunding, whereby an issuer presents a business model to investors. The difference is that the raised funds are in the form of digital currencies using blockchain technology and the deals are enforced using smart contracts.

Last year saw an explosion of ICOs, leading to numerous reports of exit scams. According to reports, as many as half of those ICOs have already failed.

J Ventures has created 300 million digital tokens. It sold 100 million within the first 55 hours of the February ICO, with some 2,200 buyers acquiring the tokens, leading it to cancel a planned second round before trading began.

The company said it acquired 660 million baht from the ICO, which was highly anticipated and billed as the first ICO for an SET-listed Thai company. J Venture's affiliation with Jay Mart, a household name in Thailand, also boosted investor confidence.

J Ventures chief executive Thanawat Lertwattanarak said he was not surprised to see the price plummet on the first day of trading, adding that even Facebook traded lower on its public debut.

"Technology takes time, as it [is not easy] to build up a system, so investors might not be able to envisage the future at this point until the project has been completed," he said.

Mr Thanawat said he expects JFin Coin to rank among the world's top 100 digital tokens in the future by capitalising on blockchain technology, the company's digital lending platform (DLP) and Jay Mart's business ecosystem. There are nearly 2,000 digital assets available at present.

J Ventures operates a full suite of financial services, ranging from nano loans to debt collection.
JFin Coin will begin trading on Cash2Coins, another local exchange, on Monday and plans to get listed on Hong Kong's HitBTC and South Korea's UPbit soon, Mr Thanawat said.

The remaining 200 million tokens may be reserved for other ICOs, he said.

J Ventures lent 3 million baht to 3,000 customers of Total Access Communication Plc earlier this year without requiring bank statements or salary payment slips.

Mr Thanawat said the company will target borrowers that have been blacklisted, have financial problems or otherwise cannot get a loan approved, a market of 28.5 million people.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu May 03, 2018 10:03 am

Not a surprise really since the department of numptys are poised to tax the hell out of all digital currencies.

Smart traders and investors are getting all of their money out of juntaland.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by hhinner » Thu May 03, 2018 10:31 am

@Buksida. You seem to know about these things. Official exchanges such as bx.in.th will have to toe the line and charge VAT, and somehow work out investors' profits to deduct 15% tax (or will that be a matter for income tax declaration?). I just wonder how localbitcoins will be affected. Previously I've used localbitcoins to offload crypto (you have to convert to btc first) and got a better rate than an exchange would have given. Any idea how the new taxation regime will affect localbitcoins as it's not actually an exchange? Cheers.

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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by buksida » Thu May 03, 2018 10:38 am

That is the point of LBC - it is peer-to-peer so there are no regulations or taxes on it. This is likely to be the only option for trading crypto in Thailand when the tax comes into effect.

Unless of course the junta want to follow China's route and block access to P2P trading platforms as well.
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Re: The Bitcoin and cryptocurrency thread

Post by HHCanuck » Thu May 03, 2018 12:56 pm

Crypto transaction are small potatoes at the moment however already governments are banning or trying to tax transactions. Honestly, I can't see governments allowing the untraceable untaxable transactions to continue. They need the tax dollars there is no way it will be allowed to continue without intervention. I'm sure they will enact money laundering or anti-terrorism laws to crush it in the future.

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