Who is exploiting who

[tuktukmike]

Last week i was unlucky enough to be drinking in my usual bar in Bangkok when 2 Farangs from the Uk decided to start expressing their opinions to me.

The woman was ranting on about how western men disgust her and how they are exploiting Thai women.

I tried to explain that it was by no means one way traffic and that i was not sure who exploited who, this just made her worse and she continued to give glares to other Farangs with Thai girls.

I think she talked to me as i was on my own, her husband at one point almost showed understanding but withdrew when her icy eyes glared back at him.

I tried to explain that many girls had children and that there was no welfare out here to help them so why not start with the Thai Goverment.

I also explained that many working girls had money sent to them from many different boyfriends and lived very well from this.

Just wondering what others take is on this subject.

I have no axe to grind either way but as she said she holidays out here very often i could not understand how she could be so blind..

Mike.

[Wanderlust]

I agree with you Mike, the exploitation goes both ways on occasion, but in the main I don't think either side are exploiting the other, as they are both getting what they want, particularly if (as I suspect) we are looking at farangs with bar girls. The greater exploitation comes from the Thai girls' families/ boyfriends/ husbands who place demands for money on them that can normally only be met by them becoming prostitutes, as they were not given the benefit of a good education.
The woman who you spoke to obviously has no idea what she is talking about, but that is not necessarily her fault - the media in the UK loves to play up the 'sex tourist' angle when it comes to Thailand and South East Asia. I would put money on it that she was a Daily Mail reader

[lomuamart]

Sounds like a Margie Proops, Mary Whitehouse, Maggie Thatcher clone.
I know it's a bit of a flippant comment, but if this lady felt so strongly about it, then why didn't she go and offer some girls enough money to get by on for a week so they didn't have to work and then come back a couple of days later. Bet you they're all at it again.
There are plenty of people who think there's no such thing as a pimp in Thailand. The girls are working for themselves - in the main. As Wanderlust said, take a look at their families/bfs/husbands and then think again.

[Farang]

,
That kind of raving and ranting obviously is a sort of catharsis for the tormented soul.
(so nice of me to call the screaming hag a "tormented soul") You gave her a free therapy session,
which, of course, was very gentlemanly of you, TTM.

That kind of Full Metal Jacket feminatzi won't listen to your view-point, nor should she. She already knows it all.
Talking to her is but waist of time. I hope she at least appreciated the free therapy.

Audiator et altera pars, my arse!

.

[Knocker]

This does raise complex issues but I would have thought better to avoid getting into these arguments. When arguing with ladies of the type that Mike met, you are never going to win because to them it is a black and white argument with no shades of grey.

It is a difficult argument to say the girls are exploiting westerners. The response from the lady Mike met would no do doubt be to question whether they would be doing this job if not for poverty or if circumstances did not force them to do it? Therefore are western men exploiting their circumstances? Are their clients allowing them to be exploited by their families etc as a way to make easy money? Whatever arguments one puts forward in response, it will always be easy for Mike's lady to claim the moral high ground. Therefore as I say don't get involved in these arguments.

However, i don't think it right for the lady to make moral judgments on guys in a bar talking to Thai girls. How does she know what drives either the farangs or the girls?

Just seen farang's post which i fully agree with

[johnnyk]

The cnut can't claim any high moral ground as you can sweep the rug out from under her easily.
The girls are supporting their families by doing work which is often unpleasant and stigmatized by many.
She is sacrificing herself for the benefit of others.
Providing for a family is a high moral purpose, perhaps the highest.
The punter is assisting in this high moral endeavour.
What, precisely, madam, are you doing to assist? is the question.

[Jim]

It's easy for us all to take the view that it happens, everyone benefits, so just get on with life, but if only to play devil's advocate, I wonder if there's anyone who wants to support the case of the woman TTM met? Is this her first time in the Far East? Has she caught her husband playing away from home with a Thai girl? Or is she genuinely morally upset by westerners having sex with Thai girls? Is it just the western thing - would she be equally outraged by all the Chinese and Koreans (for example) doing the same thing? For the record, I think she's quite wrong but I can understand where Daily Mail readers get their bigotries from. My guess though is that she's had a bad experience with her husband, or a friend's husband, succumbing to local temptation.

[caller]

I thought it interesting that she had entered the bar in the first place! I won't know the place, but generally you would have to be blinkered to not notice young thai women with farang men, or even if the bar was of that "type" (sorry - couldn't think of a better word).

Maybe she just wanted a rant?

At the end of the day its still a taboo subject in the UK where there aren't the equivalent of bar girls - imagine if there was, in every high street - and most peoples understanding will link it to prostitution in the UK and the stories of pimps, drug dependancy, people smuggling, organised crime etc.

A lot of Brits still seem to have a fairly blinkered if not patronising attitude to what goes on elsewhere.

Its funny, but I got friendly with a northern european in HH a year or so ago and one of the first things he said to me was that I wasn't like the other Brit (holidaymakers) he had met, who he thought were basically, "up themselves".

I think I was like that once - I got told so in Singapore many years ago? Some will say I still am!

[Jaime]

A lot of Brits still seem to have a fairly blinkered if not patronising attitude to what goes on elsewhere.

You should try living here with a Thai wife, where the unspoken assumption is that the farang male is perverted/inadequate and the Thai wife is a victim/whore. Farang women are much worse than men on this score.

As for Mike's original post, I have had similar discussions with farang ladies at bars in Thailand and try not to get too worked up about it. In fact I tend to wind them up a little more if I feel they deserve it!

The preconceptions about Thailand, women and sex will always be there and people will often reinforce their prejudices when they arrive in a place by seeing some things and closing their eyes to others.

Ah well, you know what they say; "The narrower the mind, the broader the generalisations it makes."

....hmm.... wonder how my 'Average Thai' thread is going....?

[dr dave soul monsta]

Mike and mostly every body's points are spot on and valid
This is short and sweet
This has going on far before any farrangs arrived in this country not only Thailand but the whole of Asia and the world and will continue to do regardless of any government or any future full stop of tourism...

Those who have lived here more than a few years will know exactly what the score is or think they do, they usually get a shock!
The tourist part of this industry in good old TH is miniscule along side the hundreds of thousands of "Thai massage parlorsâ€

[tuktukmike]

To Jaime.

I have heard it all before, guy walks into resturant and people under their breath whisper (thai bride)

I got back to my room and checked if some ass-ole had stuck a sign on my back saying, Good Listener.

This was not the first time this has happened, i must be the guy who gets on a train or bus only to be spotted by the escaped lunatic who wants to speak to someone.

I ended the discussion by telling the woman i had a very short attention span.

Then went to my room and took 2 asprin.

Mike.

[caller]

[quote="dr dave soul monsta"]Just before I go who’s gone out in their own country chatted a bird, scored , paid for her beer all night and a taxi home(together) woke up in the morning and thought “oh my god I didn’t did Iâ€

[Guess]

Great post by Mike and many very good reply postings. By the time I got around to replying everybody else seemed to have said it all.

Myself I think I might have had some personal fun with that lady whilst pretending that I was myself a newcomer to Thailand and knew very little. It would have been intersting how big a hole she dug herself when asked how she had obtained so much information about Thai Farang relationships. I suspect that is not a common topic in the Daily Femail.

I have lived on this region (Malay Peninsular) on and off for the best part of seventeen years. Not a week goes by without me learning something new about the cultures (and diversity of them).

It amuses me greatly that people after having spent two weeks in Thailand and have just learnt to say Sawasdee Car seem to have obtained a complete knowledge of the region.

Perhaps Mike you should have advised her to contact Amnesty International and state the case. It looks like this is one area of human expoitation, that for some reason, has escaped them along with all the farang who work here for free in many roles to help Thai people.

[lomuamart]

Well said, Guess.

[johnnyk]

There have also been one or two cases of lonely, lovesick, gullible falangs being exploited for major amounts of dosh, homes, cars etc.
Goes both ways.
Shite happens when relationships are mutually exploitative, based on lies and fueled by booze.