I hope the moderaters will excuse this as I am not a new member but due to the content of this post I would like to keep myself anonymous. I am a long(ish) term poster but if admin will allow it I would like to use the account I just set up purely for this thread.
Before I start I would like to just say that I could really do without snide/sarky comments, and I also know there are places to get proffesional help for the topic in question (just not sure where it is in Thailand).
For the past few months (about 6) I have been having some problems in different areas in my life, none that really seem too serious but it has left me feeling deflated and depressed. I don't have debts, I don't have family issues but there other things in my life that are making sure that that selfish thought of the easy way out continues to pester me everday. I have been in Thailand for a fair while and I love it here but I'm also beginning to feel as though I've lost my way a tad with no long term friends close by to confide in.
I have already been in touch with AA to start some meetings, not because I'm an alcoholic but for 2 reasons; 1. because I have started hitting the bottle more often than I did before and 2. Maybe meeting new people who were/are going through difficult times will be benificial to me.
My question to you guys is... Have you ever been in a situation where life seemed like too much effort. Do you have any possibly benificial advice regarding my predicament (Places to seek proffesional help for depression, self help tips....)
Thank you in advance, I know this is not exactly the right place to let people know about the horrible thoughts that are going through my head every day but I needed to say it to someone.... just writing this feels like I have taken a step in the right direction.
Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Hello Lost, I am sorry you are feeling a bit down and depressed. I think sometimes we all experience this at one time or another in our lives. Please do not depair, I am sure help will soon be with you. There will be members who will point you in the right direction for help. As I do not live in HH at present do not know places to go for help. I think you have taken the right steps to recovery by joining AA. There you will meet other people, make friends. Maybe it is not a drink problem but sometimes people use drink to numb other feelings or thoughts we may have, in other words block out things. I do not know what age group you are or if you have any hobbies. It seems you like talking to people as you have joined the forum. Maybe join trips out with other members? Maybe some members can suggest events you could join in with.Lost wrote:I hope the moderaters will excuse this as I am not a new member but due to the content of this post I would like to keep myself anonymous. I am a long(ish) term poster but if admin will allow it I would like to use the account I just set up purely for this thread.
Before I start I would like to just say that I could really do without snide/sarky comments, and I also know there are places to get proffesional help for the topic in question (just not sure where it is in Thailand).
For the past few months (about 6) I have been having some problems in different areas in my life, none that really seem too serious but it has left me feeling deflated and depressed. I don't have debts, I don't have family issues but there other things in my life that are making sure that that selfish thought of the easy way out continues to pester me everday. I have been in Thailand for a fair while and I love it here but I'm also beginning to feel as though I've lost my way a tad with no long term friends close by to confide in.
I have already been in touch with AA to start some meetings, not because I'm an alcoholic but for 2 reasons; 1. because I have started hitting the bottle more often than I did before and 2. Maybe meeting new people who were/are going through difficult times will be benificial to me.
My question to you guys is... Have you ever been in a situation where life seemed like too much effort. Do you have any possibly benificial advice regarding my predicament (Places to seek proffesional help for depression, self help tips....)
Thank you in advance, I know this is not exactly the right place to let people know about the horrible thoughts that are going through my head every day but I needed to say it to someone.... just writing this feels like I have taken a step in the right direction.
I think it would a good idea to have a chat to your doctor also. He may give you something mild just to help you through this difficult period. As you say, just writing about it helps, I am sure it is as you say, by doing this is a step in the right direction. Try to get out and about as much as possible, maybe not to bars as they can be very lonely places. Go for coffee, lunch / dinner instead. Try to plan you day, even though it may be hard when you feel a bit low. I know that there are some very thoughtful members in this forum who will point you in the right direction. Just remember, you are not alone, we are all here if you need to talk.
I hope you will be feeling better soon Feel free to PM me at anytime
Last edited by Siani on Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Brave post. We all find ways to self-tranquillize, when depressed or stressed. usually destructive.
Sometimes, as you've understood, all you need is a friend to confide in.
Please feel free to pm me your number and I'll gladly listen.
Sometimes, as you've understood, all you need is a friend to confide in.
Please feel free to pm me your number and I'll gladly listen.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
i actually think that post could be from most people here ,i really dont think many people here have what they can call close friends ,to confide in before you know it half hua hin know ,i do hope you find away through your problems,and good luck in the future
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Sometimes you just have to have a friend or two, without which it could perhaps be that many things are amplified due to a lack of a 'voice of reason' or reference. Many people have few 'real' friends here, I myself only have a handful to be honest.
Things can always seem worse than they really are and it requires a certain level of stoicism to live here. You mentioned that it wasn't a problem for you but for many it is, alcohol is a major danger to all that reside here, it's too easy to sit around and drink here, especially as many people don't find something to keep them busy, for me, work keeps me away from the beer at least until 18:00 each day but I still drink more than I used to.
Life is a series of events that takes you up and down, the downs can be a nightmare here too but in general I find it character building/experience generating.
The 'selfish option' as you call it doesn't fix anything really, to run away merely means a tempory respite but the problems will follow you like crows, even though many just run as it's the easy option, fixes little in the long run.
Sounds like you need some interaction with people who you can relate to......join a sport club/find a hobby or an interest, perhaps join an expat group or just go out and make some friends like you used to when younger.
Keep your eyes on your prefered destination, not where you have stumbled along the way.
It seems that it's nothing too serious for you as you have mentioned some important sections as being fine, like family. Perhaps you just need to shake things up a bit, do something different and get the family involved and derive the obvious enjoyment from that, never too late to change things if you really want to.
I suppose we all go through these different stages of feeling stale. You could just diagnose the whole lot into things you like and things you don't and initiate change to how you want your life to be, obviously taking into consideration those important to you that are around you. Be yourelf and make your life how you want it to be (grab the bull by the horns so to speak), those that care about you will accomodate it, rather probably like what you do for many others too, it's a reciprocal arrangement or at least it should be.
However, far from me to tell you what to do. If it was me, then I'd cut the chaff from my life and steer it towards what I wanted.
If you truely feel you have exhausted every option, then you must do what you feel is right. Either way, you must control your life and try to do what you feel is right for you and those you care for.
That, however, only you can answer properly as it's about knowing yourself and what you want or what you expect out of life, once you can answer that then you have a plan.
Edit - Typos and tidying up
Things can always seem worse than they really are and it requires a certain level of stoicism to live here. You mentioned that it wasn't a problem for you but for many it is, alcohol is a major danger to all that reside here, it's too easy to sit around and drink here, especially as many people don't find something to keep them busy, for me, work keeps me away from the beer at least until 18:00 each day but I still drink more than I used to.
Life is a series of events that takes you up and down, the downs can be a nightmare here too but in general I find it character building/experience generating.
The 'selfish option' as you call it doesn't fix anything really, to run away merely means a tempory respite but the problems will follow you like crows, even though many just run as it's the easy option, fixes little in the long run.
Sounds like you need some interaction with people who you can relate to......join a sport club/find a hobby or an interest, perhaps join an expat group or just go out and make some friends like you used to when younger.
Keep your eyes on your prefered destination, not where you have stumbled along the way.
It seems that it's nothing too serious for you as you have mentioned some important sections as being fine, like family. Perhaps you just need to shake things up a bit, do something different and get the family involved and derive the obvious enjoyment from that, never too late to change things if you really want to.
I suppose we all go through these different stages of feeling stale. You could just diagnose the whole lot into things you like and things you don't and initiate change to how you want your life to be, obviously taking into consideration those important to you that are around you. Be yourelf and make your life how you want it to be (grab the bull by the horns so to speak), those that care about you will accomodate it, rather probably like what you do for many others too, it's a reciprocal arrangement or at least it should be.
However, far from me to tell you what to do. If it was me, then I'd cut the chaff from my life and steer it towards what I wanted.
If you truely feel you have exhausted every option, then you must do what you feel is right. Either way, you must control your life and try to do what you feel is right for you and those you care for.
That, however, only you can answer properly as it's about knowing yourself and what you want or what you expect out of life, once you can answer that then you have a plan.
Edit - Typos and tidying up
Resolve dissolves in alcohol
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
I have been through a phase in my life where the 'selfish option' as you so discreetly put it was in the forefront of my mind too much, so I can empathise with you Lost, as I am sure many others on here do. There is already good advice and kind words from others for you to ponder.
My suggestion is to take another kind of selfish option; you said that you do not have family issues or money problems, so I suggest that you travel somewhere that you have never been before, by yourself. It almost doesn't matter where, as the journey and the break from whatever is causing your ill thoughts is the key, as well as the planning and execution of the trip.
While you make this journey you should focus on yourself and the new things you see and experience, but when you reach your destination you should focus on the good things you have in your life. Maybe walk along a deserted beach, or up a hill, just get some solitude. Everyone has their own ways of dealing with the pressures of life so this is just something that I have done in the past that has helped me clear my head, because you are often unable to do so when surrounded by your familiar routine and surroundings. Separating yourself from your normal situation gives you the time you don't normally have (or allow yourself) to think clearly.
If you are going to do this make sure you tell someone though, and try to have a clean and sober break, as alcohol, while an escape, also can muddle your thinking. Contacting AA would be a good move as they will understand what you are going through, but from the way you post it doesn't sound as if your drinking is the problem, just a symptom.
Anyone who lives in another country, or even travels extensively, is a different breed to most of their countrymen, and the fact that you have indicates a certain strength of mind and an ability to be alone without it being a problem - sometimes it is something that people who travel or live abroad crave without realising it. It is obviously hard to know where your head is and why but give yourself the time to work it out and you will.
Please come back on here and tell us when you have - everyone is rooting for you.
My suggestion is to take another kind of selfish option; you said that you do not have family issues or money problems, so I suggest that you travel somewhere that you have never been before, by yourself. It almost doesn't matter where, as the journey and the break from whatever is causing your ill thoughts is the key, as well as the planning and execution of the trip.
While you make this journey you should focus on yourself and the new things you see and experience, but when you reach your destination you should focus on the good things you have in your life. Maybe walk along a deserted beach, or up a hill, just get some solitude. Everyone has their own ways of dealing with the pressures of life so this is just something that I have done in the past that has helped me clear my head, because you are often unable to do so when surrounded by your familiar routine and surroundings. Separating yourself from your normal situation gives you the time you don't normally have (or allow yourself) to think clearly.
If you are going to do this make sure you tell someone though, and try to have a clean and sober break, as alcohol, while an escape, also can muddle your thinking. Contacting AA would be a good move as they will understand what you are going through, but from the way you post it doesn't sound as if your drinking is the problem, just a symptom.
Anyone who lives in another country, or even travels extensively, is a different breed to most of their countrymen, and the fact that you have indicates a certain strength of mind and an ability to be alone without it being a problem - sometimes it is something that people who travel or live abroad crave without realising it. It is obviously hard to know where your head is and why but give yourself the time to work it out and you will.
Please come back on here and tell us when you have - everyone is rooting for you.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
I echo the above sentiments and advice
In the UK I just used to get in the car and tell the wife and my daughters that I was going away for a couple of days. I just used to drive anywhere and stay anywhere and just re-build my thinking. I was under pressures (work, commuting,mortgage,home-life,being in a rut)
Thought it was all solved when retiring to Thailand (no work, daughters fled the nest etc.) BUT even when feeling laid-back and worry free your mind is still active and becoming stagnant and boredom creeps in.
It's happened to me. After a while the 'land of smiles' becomes boring and I solved my boredom and lethargy in two ways
1) Went on a strict detox program away from Hua Hin. Nobody knew where I was. It was so refreshing to be in a different environment
2) Changed and still change daily routine. I don't make plans. Wake up in the morning and think 'what will I do today?'
Think most of us go through it but most hide it and some completely retire into their shell
Full marks to you for airing your problem and as some have pointed out that in itself is a good thing. 'A problem shared........'
PM me if you want a chat or a quiet bevvie
In the UK I just used to get in the car and tell the wife and my daughters that I was going away for a couple of days. I just used to drive anywhere and stay anywhere and just re-build my thinking. I was under pressures (work, commuting,mortgage,home-life,being in a rut)
Thought it was all solved when retiring to Thailand (no work, daughters fled the nest etc.) BUT even when feeling laid-back and worry free your mind is still active and becoming stagnant and boredom creeps in.
It's happened to me. After a while the 'land of smiles' becomes boring and I solved my boredom and lethargy in two ways
1) Went on a strict detox program away from Hua Hin. Nobody knew where I was. It was so refreshing to be in a different environment
2) Changed and still change daily routine. I don't make plans. Wake up in the morning and think 'what will I do today?'
Think most of us go through it but most hide it and some completely retire into their shell
Full marks to you for airing your problem and as some have pointed out that in itself is a good thing. 'A problem shared........'
PM me if you want a chat or a quiet bevvie
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
I would like to sympathise with your feelings and wish you speedy cheering up. I have felt like this recently too, probably a lot milder, mainly due to the chore of working where I currently live (dubai). I cheered up a lot when I bought my place in HH, HH being my change of scenery and happy place. Sounds to me like you need a chnage of scenery and your own happy place. Go for it, and keep us informed.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
I've been down that road but never to the extent of contemplating doing myself in, which I think you're hinting at above. If you are considering that, you're saying that you have no confidence in yourself to solve your problems. Right out of the box you need to adjust that frame of mind and believe in yourself, then look for ways to refresh your life and make it interesting again.
As a first step you need to get out of here and I don't mean for a long weekend, but for a month or two. Have a family meeting and tell them point blank you're no good for them or yourself in the frame of mind you're in, and need some therapy you can't achieve here. Make sure they understand you're not gong on some crazed sex holiday, but more of a retreat to refresh, contemplate, recharge etc.
While you're away practice some very deep thought about when you first began to feel the way you do and what triggered it. If you arrive at the conclusion that you're really not in love with your wife, truly hate Thailand and have just been enduring it, aren't cut out to be a family man, you need to make some hard decisions in order to save yourself and preserve your life.
I personally think you'll find you just need a change of scenery, as we all do from time to time, and you'll then need to put a long break on your calender every year or two. You also need to rediscover your passion for something and then do it. Something that interests you highly and you go to bed thinking about and wake up thinking about. This could be as simple as joining a chess club all the way up to something like learning to fly. You've got to dig out those old memories and feelings of what you really like to do or have never done, and then do them. If you're able to do that I think you'll find contentment and love for your life again.
Another approach is to forget self and look around at those here who have nothing. If you immerse yourself in that and get heavily involved in a charity project I think you'll see straight away how lucky you are to be who you are, and have what you have. There is a huge amount of fulfillment and feeling of self worth in work like that.
It all starts with you though. You have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, shake the dust off and tell yourself you're capable of understanding what's happened to you and you're smart enough to know how to fix it. Good luck.
Pete
As a first step you need to get out of here and I don't mean for a long weekend, but for a month or two. Have a family meeting and tell them point blank you're no good for them or yourself in the frame of mind you're in, and need some therapy you can't achieve here. Make sure they understand you're not gong on some crazed sex holiday, but more of a retreat to refresh, contemplate, recharge etc.
While you're away practice some very deep thought about when you first began to feel the way you do and what triggered it. If you arrive at the conclusion that you're really not in love with your wife, truly hate Thailand and have just been enduring it, aren't cut out to be a family man, you need to make some hard decisions in order to save yourself and preserve your life.
I personally think you'll find you just need a change of scenery, as we all do from time to time, and you'll then need to put a long break on your calender every year or two. You also need to rediscover your passion for something and then do it. Something that interests you highly and you go to bed thinking about and wake up thinking about. This could be as simple as joining a chess club all the way up to something like learning to fly. You've got to dig out those old memories and feelings of what you really like to do or have never done, and then do them. If you're able to do that I think you'll find contentment and love for your life again.
Another approach is to forget self and look around at those here who have nothing. If you immerse yourself in that and get heavily involved in a charity project I think you'll see straight away how lucky you are to be who you are, and have what you have. There is a huge amount of fulfillment and feeling of self worth in work like that.
It all starts with you though. You have to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, shake the dust off and tell yourself you're capable of understanding what's happened to you and you're smart enough to know how to fix it. Good luck.
Pete Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Hi Lost,
Sorry to hear you're going through a few issues. If you've been through periods like this before, as many have, you'll know coming out the other side and enjoying a better life is always possible. Whatever the issues, there's no more apt a saying than 'time is a great healer', and people often come out the other side stronger for the experience.
When you say you have no family issues, are you in a relationship, have non-grown up kids? If that's too personal a question please ignore it, but whether single or with partner, I'm sure there's plenty of advice posters could offer.
Also you need good friends around you, everyone does and for so many reasons, least of which is to be occupied, out of the house doing enjoyable things, meeting other nice people and generally taking your mind off things. It isn't easy somewhere like here to meet good friends, friendsships are usually developed on long periods of time, like schoolhood days etc, but there are many many good, kind, decent people in Hua Hin/Cha am, that easily cancel out the wasters you meet.
So on the friend front, posters on here will be able to offer good advice of where to meet those with similar interests, and there's also regular posters on here from Pattaya, Bangkok and Krabi. If you gave us an approx. age band of those you would usually socialise with, ie: 40-55 year olds, 50-65 year olds etc, and any particular interests, golfing, Hash Hous'ing, cards/board games, animal caring, beach/water sports, fitnes/gym work, bar hopping whatever, you'll get some great advice I'm sure.
Helping out with under-priviledged/orphaned/disabled kids can be very rewarding, thought-occupying, give people new purpose and put life in perspective, there's a ton of that nearby if someone wanted a new hobby.
Best wishes, you've got past one of the hardest hurdle's with you're post, I'd say
SJ
Sorry to hear you're going through a few issues. If you've been through periods like this before, as many have, you'll know coming out the other side and enjoying a better life is always possible. Whatever the issues, there's no more apt a saying than 'time is a great healer', and people often come out the other side stronger for the experience.
When you say you have no family issues, are you in a relationship, have non-grown up kids? If that's too personal a question please ignore it, but whether single or with partner, I'm sure there's plenty of advice posters could offer.
Also you need good friends around you, everyone does and for so many reasons, least of which is to be occupied, out of the house doing enjoyable things, meeting other nice people and generally taking your mind off things. It isn't easy somewhere like here to meet good friends, friendsships are usually developed on long periods of time, like schoolhood days etc, but there are many many good, kind, decent people in Hua Hin/Cha am, that easily cancel out the wasters you meet.
So on the friend front, posters on here will be able to offer good advice of where to meet those with similar interests, and there's also regular posters on here from Pattaya, Bangkok and Krabi. If you gave us an approx. age band of those you would usually socialise with, ie: 40-55 year olds, 50-65 year olds etc, and any particular interests, golfing, Hash Hous'ing, cards/board games, animal caring, beach/water sports, fitnes/gym work, bar hopping whatever, you'll get some great advice I'm sure.
Helping out with under-priviledged/orphaned/disabled kids can be very rewarding, thought-occupying, give people new purpose and put life in perspective, there's a ton of that nearby if someone wanted a new hobby.
Best wishes, you've got past one of the hardest hurdle's with you're post, I'd say
SJ
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Great advice.
This is my usual lengthy offering. I hope you'll find it more useful than most.
I agree, we need to have some purpose, something to want to get out of bed for. Some find their passion by arguing on message boards.
It's their 'entertainment' or adrenaline rush. Some through delicious but wicked gossip. Others a little more constructively, as others have indicated.
Coming out of a depression can be achieved with support from others. Sometimes, though, there are deeper issues weighing on people's shoulders. Residual 'baggage' surrounding divorce, financial or physical insecurity, family conflict or concerns over health. Deep disappointment, where dreams of love, success or happiness, have not materialized. Or just those every day frustrations that chip away. Dislocation, from previous stability back home, is also unsettling. Alcohol causes depression. So does a lack of nutrition.
All of these things work to 'poison the pond'.
Beware of 'friends'. How many have you met, only using you to take the monkey off their back and dump it on yours? You end up even more depressed. These kinds of people don't help. They are 'energy-robbers'.
There is nothing wrong with being selfish when depressed. It's normal to become self-absorbed and to withdraw from others. We see this in people who experience grief. In Ayurvedic thinking they call this a 'Tamasic' state. It has a purpose and there is a way to come out of it. But when you are in this state for too long, it does become harder.
I like this saying..
'There are two things that drive men mad. Regret over yesterday and fear of tomorrow. Regret and fear are twin thieves that rob us of today.'
Fear and regret are internal states of mind. They have emotional and spiritual aspects that can't always be resolved at the level of the intellect. This is why psychiatry fails. It treats us as machines. Its answer, invariably, a chemical. Why? Because, although they may, if they are lucky, unveil the source of depression, they don't actually know how to resolve it. Because they don't accept the existence of the soul. They dope it. Rather than liberate it.
It's not the only option but, like Richard, I am a fan of detoxing. The mind and not just the body is affected by toxicity and weakened vitality. I always feel my spirits lifted whenever I finish a course.
I'm also a strong believer in 'EFT'. It's called the Emotional Freedom Technique (look it up). You basically list all those negatives in your life you want to be rid off (including depression) and 'tap' on them. I'm not interested in arguments with the ignorant, who have never tried it, but I have found it to be a fantastic tool, which can be used in many different ways. I am currently using it to improve my golf. To dissolve those negative thoughts that bugger up the swing. ("I can't putt", "My driver is rubbish", "I'm never going to master this"). Then to overlay those negative thoughts with positive ('NLP')... ("I'm the best goddam putter in the world!", "This one's going straight down the middle"). Or for the depressed... "I now release all negativity", "All fears", All regrets".. and so on.
I met an overheated young man recently, with major problems of anger. When I suggested EFT to him he said "I don't want to waste any more money on Doctors". I understood his feeling, having encountered many practitioners who turn out NOT to have that 'magic bullet' we all seek. I'm well aware know how frustrating it can be.
Which is why there comes a point where you need to end notions of being a 'victim' and take control of your mind. It IS possible to become the master of your mind and not its slave.
We all have our imperfections. I wouldn't dream of suggesting I'm perfect but I've dragged myself out of suicidal depression and panic anxiety, which is no fun, as anyone knows who has been through it. I am far happier today than I ever was, bouncing from relationship to relationship, country to country, bar to bar, trying to escape from the one person that needed attention. ME. Those distractions only work for a year or two.
A key to mental freedom is in knowing oneself. If you are a womaniser and adventurer, what's the point in trying to be monogamous and stuck in one place? If you find security in the known and the safe, you will be disturbed by travel. Find out your nature and be true to it.
There is one aspect of getting help which I find curious. We spend a fortune on a nice house, car, expensive restaurants, golf, or simply beer. But when it comes to taking care of ourselves, whether diet, exercise (one of the best ways to lift depression), our emotional health, we readily find excuses not to do so. We tell ourselves, it's a cost and not an investment. It's too expensive.
It reminds me of the story of the man who discovered gold. He was so excited, he wanted his friend to share in his good fortune. "My best friend", he said. "I've discovered gold and I want you to share with me. All you need do is buy a shovel". "You must be joking", replied his friend. "Have you seen the price of shovels!"
This is my usual lengthy offering. I hope you'll find it more useful than most.
I agree, we need to have some purpose, something to want to get out of bed for. Some find their passion by arguing on message boards.
It's their 'entertainment' or adrenaline rush. Some through delicious but wicked gossip. Others a little more constructively, as others have indicated.Coming out of a depression can be achieved with support from others. Sometimes, though, there are deeper issues weighing on people's shoulders. Residual 'baggage' surrounding divorce, financial or physical insecurity, family conflict or concerns over health. Deep disappointment, where dreams of love, success or happiness, have not materialized. Or just those every day frustrations that chip away. Dislocation, from previous stability back home, is also unsettling. Alcohol causes depression. So does a lack of nutrition.
All of these things work to 'poison the pond'.
Beware of 'friends'. How many have you met, only using you to take the monkey off their back and dump it on yours? You end up even more depressed. These kinds of people don't help. They are 'energy-robbers'.
There is nothing wrong with being selfish when depressed. It's normal to become self-absorbed and to withdraw from others. We see this in people who experience grief. In Ayurvedic thinking they call this a 'Tamasic' state. It has a purpose and there is a way to come out of it. But when you are in this state for too long, it does become harder.
I like this saying..
'There are two things that drive men mad. Regret over yesterday and fear of tomorrow. Regret and fear are twin thieves that rob us of today.'
Fear and regret are internal states of mind. They have emotional and spiritual aspects that can't always be resolved at the level of the intellect. This is why psychiatry fails. It treats us as machines. Its answer, invariably, a chemical. Why? Because, although they may, if they are lucky, unveil the source of depression, they don't actually know how to resolve it. Because they don't accept the existence of the soul. They dope it. Rather than liberate it.
It's not the only option but, like Richard, I am a fan of detoxing. The mind and not just the body is affected by toxicity and weakened vitality. I always feel my spirits lifted whenever I finish a course.
I'm also a strong believer in 'EFT'. It's called the Emotional Freedom Technique (look it up). You basically list all those negatives in your life you want to be rid off (including depression) and 'tap' on them. I'm not interested in arguments with the ignorant, who have never tried it, but I have found it to be a fantastic tool, which can be used in many different ways. I am currently using it to improve my golf. To dissolve those negative thoughts that bugger up the swing. ("I can't putt", "My driver is rubbish", "I'm never going to master this"). Then to overlay those negative thoughts with positive ('NLP')... ("I'm the best goddam putter in the world!", "This one's going straight down the middle"). Or for the depressed... "I now release all negativity", "All fears", All regrets".. and so on.
I met an overheated young man recently, with major problems of anger. When I suggested EFT to him he said "I don't want to waste any more money on Doctors". I understood his feeling, having encountered many practitioners who turn out NOT to have that 'magic bullet' we all seek. I'm well aware know how frustrating it can be.
Which is why there comes a point where you need to end notions of being a 'victim' and take control of your mind. It IS possible to become the master of your mind and not its slave.
We all have our imperfections. I wouldn't dream of suggesting I'm perfect but I've dragged myself out of suicidal depression and panic anxiety, which is no fun, as anyone knows who has been through it. I am far happier today than I ever was, bouncing from relationship to relationship, country to country, bar to bar, trying to escape from the one person that needed attention. ME. Those distractions only work for a year or two.
A key to mental freedom is in knowing oneself. If you are a womaniser and adventurer, what's the point in trying to be monogamous and stuck in one place? If you find security in the known and the safe, you will be disturbed by travel. Find out your nature and be true to it.
There is one aspect of getting help which I find curious. We spend a fortune on a nice house, car, expensive restaurants, golf, or simply beer. But when it comes to taking care of ourselves, whether diet, exercise (one of the best ways to lift depression), our emotional health, we readily find excuses not to do so. We tell ourselves, it's a cost and not an investment. It's too expensive.
It reminds me of the story of the man who discovered gold. He was so excited, he wanted his friend to share in his good fortune. "My best friend", he said. "I've discovered gold and I want you to share with me. All you need do is buy a shovel". "You must be joking", replied his friend. "Have you seen the price of shovels!"
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Lost,
Yours was a brave post indeed and certainly a step in the right direction. Although I'm pretty happy here, there are certainly times when I feel lost, and I miss my friends from home. I went through a pretty bad patch a couple of years ago and am currently in a minor funk now, even though nothing is wrong in my life.
I've been lucky enough to make a couple of good friends here, people I can trust. That makes all the difference in the world. Most of us are an awfully long way from home and it's very easy to lose our way here.
I don't have a lot of advice, but I do want to post something I was just working on when I took a break and found this thread. It's about a well known board member who had one heck of a bad time for a few years and contemplated the selfish option almost daily. He made it through and is doing great, but it was very touch and go before things got better. I know that because we talked almost every day for a couple of years, then daily during the worst few months.
Mods: This is posted with Sarge's full knowledge and permission. If it is too long or you think it is inappropriate, please delete it. It just demonstrates that no matter how low you get, there's always hope as long as you don't take the selfish option.
------------------------
Sarge moved to Thailand thirteen years ago, retiring at age fifty. His Thai wife of fifteen years stayed in England, supposedly to wrap things up. He lived here for two years with a mae bahn. He was pissed most nights and barfined two or three girls a week. When it became clear his wife was never going to move to Thailand, they divorced. He was not wealthy but had a large enough pension to live comfortably. He took his mae bahn as his girlfriend, quit screwing around, 'adopted' her son, and settled down to live a quiet life.
That's when the trouble started. Sarge never cared about money and never paid attention to money. “As long as me food's on the table, the expenses are handled, and I can play a round of golf now and then, I couldn't give a rat's tit what's in the bank at the end of the month.” He turned the family finances over to his girlfriend.
She liked to gamble. “We'd go out occasionally to the illegal casinos. I'd set a limit, maybe 500 or 1000 baht. If we lost that, it was time to go home.” He saw gambling as a lark, no different than a night out for a few beers with the mates or a round of golf. He was paying for entertainment and thought nothing of it. His girlfriend was getting addicted. She started going out on her own. There was never any money left at the end of the month, but Sarge was getting fed and playing the occasional round of golf, so he didn't worry about it.
The next thing Sarge knew, she'd run up 440,000 baht of debts to the local loan sharks. He made a big mistake. He paid off her loans and let her stay. She promised never to gamble again and life was very pleasant for a few years. His food was on the table, he played a couple of rounds of golf each week, and lived a pleasant relaxed life with his girlfriend and her son. Life was good until the heart attacks started.
It was the third heart attack that sent him back to England. He went to get an angiogram. The prognosis was not good. “The quack pointed to a section of my heart and said, 'See that? No blood's getting there. It's dead.' It meant me heart was f*cked. The quack said they couldn't operate because I was so unhealthy the chances of my dying during the operation far outweighed the potential benefits of surgery. I was f*cked, so I went back to Thailand to die.”
That was four years ago. In the six weeks he'd been gone, his girlfriend had started gambling again. The debts started coming in. As fast as he could pay them off, she built up new ones. His life began to spiral downward.
When I met Sarge two years ago he seemed a man near the end of his rope. I felt sorry for him. He had obviously been a strong vigorous man whose life and health had gone to hell. After one of the heart attacks he'd married his long time girlfriend so she would get his pension. He'd bought a house in her name. He had tried ensure that she and her son would be provided for when he died, and she was destroying everything. He was discouraged, depressed, frustrated, and angry. Although I never felt personally threatened by his anger, it was always near the surface and would become visible in any conversation at any time.
I became good friends with Sarge. Best mates, the Brits would say, though we are vastly different people. His bluster and loudness didn't really bother me. I grew up in Texas, where bluster and loudness are the norm. I could see through the anger and see a very decent man trying to live by the moral code he'd lived by his entire life. Whatever problems he was facing, he wasn't a hypocrite and he wasn't a liar. Someone once wrote, “Choose your friends here very carefully.” I'd rather have a friend I can trust than one I can't, and this was someone I could trust.
As far as I could tell, he would probably be dead soon from a heart attack or suicide. He told me one day, “Mate, I'm just waiting to die, and at the moment death looks pretty good.” He drank too much and smoked too much, but how could I blame him? He wasn't going to live much longer and felt he had nothing to live for anyway.
About a year ago he came over to help a friend and me with a minor project. All he had to do was get on the ground and stand up two times. The second time he stood up he was white as a sheet and gasping for breath. I really thought I'd have to call an ambulance. He was a sick man.
A month after that incident he had an arrhythmia. At the hospital he was assigned a new heart specialist and the very first seeds of change were planted. I had to spend June working in the USA and when I returned in July, he'd bought a bicycle. His new doctor had a totally different attitude and wanted to help him live the best life he could with as little medicine as possible. The doctor said a bicycle would be good for his health. By this time he could barely walk fifty meters.
He rode the bicycle to my house a few times. It's a three kilometer ride. He'd arrive exhausted and sweating, and need at least thirty minutes to recover.
Life with his wife continued to deteriorate. Every time he thought he had a way to pay off the debts, new ones popped up. He tried everything to help – and that was his attitude – to help. This was his wife who was going through a terrible problem and he wanted to fix it and get their lives back to normal. When he tried to learn the truth, all he got was stonewalling and lies. His depression, frustration and anger continued to grow. The debts continued to mount, and she even sold the house out from under him. He stopped riding his bicycle and went back to thinking he would just die.
The end came in late October last year. She stayed out all night. When she came back the next day he told her to leave – he wouldn't even let her in the house to use the bathroom. They were finished. He'd done what he could and there was no way he could pay her debts faster than she could make them.
When he came over to tell me he'd kicked her out, all I could think was, “Good, now maybe you'll have a life again.” We talked then about the need to hold firm and not let her back in.
The absolute bottom came ten days later when he lost his wallet. He had no cash stashed in the house, and his only ATM card was in his wallet, along with eight thousand baht. It would take a couple of weeks for him to get a new card from England. He was destitute.
He was as low as he'd ever been in his life. He knew he couldn't live with her and felt he couldn't live without her. She'd been part of his life life ever since he came to live in Thailand. He was suicidal to the point that we began a daily ritual – he would call me each morning just to let me know he was still alive. During the first few weeks we spent many hours together as he began to try to sort out his life. He had to see his Doctor quite often, too. He was losing weight, mostly because he was depressed and didn't eat.
Sarge's heart attack four years before had left him impotent. He felt that he could not have another woman because he couldn't make her happy. He kept thinking about how to save enough money to bring his wife back. He didn't really want her but felt he had no alternative. He talked about this with his doctor quite often. He had been told he couldn't take Viagra after the heart attacks. Finally his doctor said, “Give me weight loss and I'll give you Viagra.”
His doctor and I said the same thing, “Get on your bicycle and ride.” Our motivations were different. The doctor wanted him to improve his health. I knew the exercise would help his depression.
He got on his bicycle and rode. Five kilometers at first, then ten, fifteen, twenty. He was still depressed, especially at night, but I began to see the change. We rode together often during that time and he was determined to get fit. His weight was dropping. He did everything for himself around the house. He began to regain his confidence. Each day he looked at the two Viagra on his table and thought, “I can have a life again.”
He cleaned out his house, boxing all of his wife's and her son's things. He stored it, knowing he'd give it to her if she gave him a divorce. He only kept one picture. It wasn't of his wife or her son.
He started to pull out of it. I knew things would be different the day we took a fifty kilometer ride together. We were almost home when he began to sing, “I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike!”, from the old Queen song. This was a man who'd barely been able to ride three kilometers a few months before.
It had been one hell of a rough time. He later told me he'd tried to overdose on his sleeping pills four times in the first couple of months. Many days he had sat on my front porch and cried. The morning ritual was no joke. I knew that if he didn't call by noon and wouldn't answer my calls, it would be my responsibility to go check and then call in the police.
So... where is he now?
Sarge stopped drinking beer the day after he kicked out his wife. He didn't trust himself not to get drunk and go bring her back. He began to cook and take care of the house and himself. He lost 28 kilos and he lost the anger and the obsession with his wife. She gave him a divorce and he cleaned all her belongings out of his house. He learned how cheap it is to live in Thailand and now saves half his pension each month. His doctor kept checking his heart and said that although the original prognosis was not wrong, there may have been a problem with the dye used, and that perhaps the arteries hadn't been completely blocked. He's regained seventy percent of the function in that area of his heart. His medications have been reduced by eighty to ninety percent. His heart is fine. He reduced his smoking dramatically. He became healthy and wealthy enough that he was able to get a hernia operation that he had needed for years.
The kicker happened at the end of January.
Before the heart attacks Sarge had almost always played the same golf course because he had a lifetime membership there. He always used the same caddy. They were attracted to each other, but he was a faithful husband and nothing ever developed. In late January he went to coach a friend who was playing that course. He only went because his membership card had been lost with his wallet, and he needed a new one. He was healthy enough to walk around the course and thought he'd like to start playing again in a few months. While there, he asked after his old caddy. He was told she had left, so he shrugged his shoulders, and thought, “Oh well. I would have loved to seen he.”
Three days later his caddy arrived at his house. She had come up from Phuket and traced him by knowing his wife's name and her business. It took her two days of walking around town to find him. The mutual attraction was still there.
Now he has an absolutely stunning thirty year old girlfriend who sure seems to love him. He's crazy about her, but keeping his eyes open. And he's no longer impotent. “If she leaves tomorrow it doesn't matter. She's been the best therapy I could ever have. She restored my manhood. I thought I could never have another woman and now I don't give the ex a thought...”
Oh, that one picture he'd saved? It was a picture of his caddy.
Yours was a brave post indeed and certainly a step in the right direction. Although I'm pretty happy here, there are certainly times when I feel lost, and I miss my friends from home. I went through a pretty bad patch a couple of years ago and am currently in a minor funk now, even though nothing is wrong in my life.
I've been lucky enough to make a couple of good friends here, people I can trust. That makes all the difference in the world. Most of us are an awfully long way from home and it's very easy to lose our way here.
I don't have a lot of advice, but I do want to post something I was just working on when I took a break and found this thread. It's about a well known board member who had one heck of a bad time for a few years and contemplated the selfish option almost daily. He made it through and is doing great, but it was very touch and go before things got better. I know that because we talked almost every day for a couple of years, then daily during the worst few months.
Mods: This is posted with Sarge's full knowledge and permission. If it is too long or you think it is inappropriate, please delete it. It just demonstrates that no matter how low you get, there's always hope as long as you don't take the selfish option.
------------------------
Sarge moved to Thailand thirteen years ago, retiring at age fifty. His Thai wife of fifteen years stayed in England, supposedly to wrap things up. He lived here for two years with a mae bahn. He was pissed most nights and barfined two or three girls a week. When it became clear his wife was never going to move to Thailand, they divorced. He was not wealthy but had a large enough pension to live comfortably. He took his mae bahn as his girlfriend, quit screwing around, 'adopted' her son, and settled down to live a quiet life.
That's when the trouble started. Sarge never cared about money and never paid attention to money. “As long as me food's on the table, the expenses are handled, and I can play a round of golf now and then, I couldn't give a rat's tit what's in the bank at the end of the month.” He turned the family finances over to his girlfriend.
She liked to gamble. “We'd go out occasionally to the illegal casinos. I'd set a limit, maybe 500 or 1000 baht. If we lost that, it was time to go home.” He saw gambling as a lark, no different than a night out for a few beers with the mates or a round of golf. He was paying for entertainment and thought nothing of it. His girlfriend was getting addicted. She started going out on her own. There was never any money left at the end of the month, but Sarge was getting fed and playing the occasional round of golf, so he didn't worry about it.
The next thing Sarge knew, she'd run up 440,000 baht of debts to the local loan sharks. He made a big mistake. He paid off her loans and let her stay. She promised never to gamble again and life was very pleasant for a few years. His food was on the table, he played a couple of rounds of golf each week, and lived a pleasant relaxed life with his girlfriend and her son. Life was good until the heart attacks started.
It was the third heart attack that sent him back to England. He went to get an angiogram. The prognosis was not good. “The quack pointed to a section of my heart and said, 'See that? No blood's getting there. It's dead.' It meant me heart was f*cked. The quack said they couldn't operate because I was so unhealthy the chances of my dying during the operation far outweighed the potential benefits of surgery. I was f*cked, so I went back to Thailand to die.”
That was four years ago. In the six weeks he'd been gone, his girlfriend had started gambling again. The debts started coming in. As fast as he could pay them off, she built up new ones. His life began to spiral downward.
When I met Sarge two years ago he seemed a man near the end of his rope. I felt sorry for him. He had obviously been a strong vigorous man whose life and health had gone to hell. After one of the heart attacks he'd married his long time girlfriend so she would get his pension. He'd bought a house in her name. He had tried ensure that she and her son would be provided for when he died, and she was destroying everything. He was discouraged, depressed, frustrated, and angry. Although I never felt personally threatened by his anger, it was always near the surface and would become visible in any conversation at any time.
I became good friends with Sarge. Best mates, the Brits would say, though we are vastly different people. His bluster and loudness didn't really bother me. I grew up in Texas, where bluster and loudness are the norm. I could see through the anger and see a very decent man trying to live by the moral code he'd lived by his entire life. Whatever problems he was facing, he wasn't a hypocrite and he wasn't a liar. Someone once wrote, “Choose your friends here very carefully.” I'd rather have a friend I can trust than one I can't, and this was someone I could trust.
As far as I could tell, he would probably be dead soon from a heart attack or suicide. He told me one day, “Mate, I'm just waiting to die, and at the moment death looks pretty good.” He drank too much and smoked too much, but how could I blame him? He wasn't going to live much longer and felt he had nothing to live for anyway.
About a year ago he came over to help a friend and me with a minor project. All he had to do was get on the ground and stand up two times. The second time he stood up he was white as a sheet and gasping for breath. I really thought I'd have to call an ambulance. He was a sick man.
A month after that incident he had an arrhythmia. At the hospital he was assigned a new heart specialist and the very first seeds of change were planted. I had to spend June working in the USA and when I returned in July, he'd bought a bicycle. His new doctor had a totally different attitude and wanted to help him live the best life he could with as little medicine as possible. The doctor said a bicycle would be good for his health. By this time he could barely walk fifty meters.
He rode the bicycle to my house a few times. It's a three kilometer ride. He'd arrive exhausted and sweating, and need at least thirty minutes to recover.
Life with his wife continued to deteriorate. Every time he thought he had a way to pay off the debts, new ones popped up. He tried everything to help – and that was his attitude – to help. This was his wife who was going through a terrible problem and he wanted to fix it and get their lives back to normal. When he tried to learn the truth, all he got was stonewalling and lies. His depression, frustration and anger continued to grow. The debts continued to mount, and she even sold the house out from under him. He stopped riding his bicycle and went back to thinking he would just die.
The end came in late October last year. She stayed out all night. When she came back the next day he told her to leave – he wouldn't even let her in the house to use the bathroom. They were finished. He'd done what he could and there was no way he could pay her debts faster than she could make them.
When he came over to tell me he'd kicked her out, all I could think was, “Good, now maybe you'll have a life again.” We talked then about the need to hold firm and not let her back in.
The absolute bottom came ten days later when he lost his wallet. He had no cash stashed in the house, and his only ATM card was in his wallet, along with eight thousand baht. It would take a couple of weeks for him to get a new card from England. He was destitute.
He was as low as he'd ever been in his life. He knew he couldn't live with her and felt he couldn't live without her. She'd been part of his life life ever since he came to live in Thailand. He was suicidal to the point that we began a daily ritual – he would call me each morning just to let me know he was still alive. During the first few weeks we spent many hours together as he began to try to sort out his life. He had to see his Doctor quite often, too. He was losing weight, mostly because he was depressed and didn't eat.
Sarge's heart attack four years before had left him impotent. He felt that he could not have another woman because he couldn't make her happy. He kept thinking about how to save enough money to bring his wife back. He didn't really want her but felt he had no alternative. He talked about this with his doctor quite often. He had been told he couldn't take Viagra after the heart attacks. Finally his doctor said, “Give me weight loss and I'll give you Viagra.”
His doctor and I said the same thing, “Get on your bicycle and ride.” Our motivations were different. The doctor wanted him to improve his health. I knew the exercise would help his depression.
He got on his bicycle and rode. Five kilometers at first, then ten, fifteen, twenty. He was still depressed, especially at night, but I began to see the change. We rode together often during that time and he was determined to get fit. His weight was dropping. He did everything for himself around the house. He began to regain his confidence. Each day he looked at the two Viagra on his table and thought, “I can have a life again.”
He cleaned out his house, boxing all of his wife's and her son's things. He stored it, knowing he'd give it to her if she gave him a divorce. He only kept one picture. It wasn't of his wife or her son.
He started to pull out of it. I knew things would be different the day we took a fifty kilometer ride together. We were almost home when he began to sing, “I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike!”, from the old Queen song. This was a man who'd barely been able to ride three kilometers a few months before.
It had been one hell of a rough time. He later told me he'd tried to overdose on his sleeping pills four times in the first couple of months. Many days he had sat on my front porch and cried. The morning ritual was no joke. I knew that if he didn't call by noon and wouldn't answer my calls, it would be my responsibility to go check and then call in the police.
So... where is he now?
Sarge stopped drinking beer the day after he kicked out his wife. He didn't trust himself not to get drunk and go bring her back. He began to cook and take care of the house and himself. He lost 28 kilos and he lost the anger and the obsession with his wife. She gave him a divorce and he cleaned all her belongings out of his house. He learned how cheap it is to live in Thailand and now saves half his pension each month. His doctor kept checking his heart and said that although the original prognosis was not wrong, there may have been a problem with the dye used, and that perhaps the arteries hadn't been completely blocked. He's regained seventy percent of the function in that area of his heart. His medications have been reduced by eighty to ninety percent. His heart is fine. He reduced his smoking dramatically. He became healthy and wealthy enough that he was able to get a hernia operation that he had needed for years.
The kicker happened at the end of January.
Before the heart attacks Sarge had almost always played the same golf course because he had a lifetime membership there. He always used the same caddy. They were attracted to each other, but he was a faithful husband and nothing ever developed. In late January he went to coach a friend who was playing that course. He only went because his membership card had been lost with his wallet, and he needed a new one. He was healthy enough to walk around the course and thought he'd like to start playing again in a few months. While there, he asked after his old caddy. He was told she had left, so he shrugged his shoulders, and thought, “Oh well. I would have loved to seen he.”
Three days later his caddy arrived at his house. She had come up from Phuket and traced him by knowing his wife's name and her business. It took her two days of walking around town to find him. The mutual attraction was still there.
Now he has an absolutely stunning thirty year old girlfriend who sure seems to love him. He's crazy about her, but keeping his eyes open. And he's no longer impotent. “If she leaves tomorrow it doesn't matter. She's been the best therapy I could ever have. She restored my manhood. I thought I could never have another woman and now I don't give the ex a thought...”
Oh, that one picture he'd saved? It was a picture of his caddy.
"We're all living proof nothing lasts" - Jay Farrar
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Lost and HHADfan
A moving story and knowing Sarge as I do he is IMO a man with 'true grit'
A moving story and knowing Sarge as I do he is IMO a man with 'true grit'
RICHARD OF LOXLEY
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
It’s none of my business what people say and think of me. I am what I am and do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. It makes life so much easier.
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Totally concur that some great advice has been given. I sincerely hope it helps.
Best regards
Crazy 88
Best regards
Crazy 88
Re: Fighting Off The Selfish Option
Yes, and good luck from me as well. I'm afraid I'm not much use at giving out advice of an emotional nature, perhaps I'm a bit too English for that sort of thing but I hope others can help.
Personally I find that concern about the future wellbeing of my several dependents keeps me firmly on the treadmill of life.
Personally I find that concern about the future wellbeing of my several dependents keeps me firmly on the treadmill of life.