"Nudity" on the streets of Hua Hin

[DawnHRD]

Absolutely right BB. Burger, I've just reread this thread & JD, Hogus, Hublet and myself have all recounted incidences we have seen where Thais were embarrassed or offended by this behaviour.

And I have seen 12,575 Thai's taking not a blind bit of notice of a holiday maker coming off the beach in their ...... wait for it ..... beach clothing.

Shock, horror, what's it got to do with us, we don't own the town just cos we live here.

Let the Thai Authorities deal with it if they see it as such a henious crime.

Burger

Nobody's saying we own the town. I don't know how the Thai authorities view this, not having ever asked them. This runs parallel in my mind to three other threads; "Tin Shacks", "Thai Etiquette" & the motorbike/helmet ones. The first 2, I'm sure everyone can see the parallels, but in the 3rd, posters were advising others of what should be done to preserve their safety. I don't remember you objecting then, saying that it was up to the Thais & we should keep our noses out. If I remember right (apologies if I'm wrong, I haven't checked back) you went so far as to state that all motorbikes & tuk-tuks were unsafe & shouldn't be used. Surely (if your attitude to Farangs interfering in the running of the town is to be carried through to all arguments), that is for the Thai authorities to decide & enforce?

And, this does have a safety parallel. Being a man, you may not realise that many Thais (particularly Thai men) regard Western women to be "easy" and sexually promiscuous. If women tourists here promote that image by not wearing appropriate clothing, all Western women get tarred with the same brush (at least until they get personally known by Thais). A friend of mine once got sexually assaulted on a night bus to BKK. I'm assuming the guy responsible thought that, as Western women were of easy virtue, she wouldn't mind him putting his hand down her jeans! She was very conservatively dressed.

We are simply warning visitors who may not know Thai culture very well of something most Thais (and you know as well as I that for every person who will say or do something here, there are hundreds that will not, but might think something) find offensive and could, if they are female, lead to unpleasant situations. I don't see what is wrong with that.

[Wanderlust]

And I have seen 12,575 Thai's taking not a blind bit of notice of a holiday maker coming off the beach in their ...... wait for it ..... beach clothing.

Shock, horror, what's it got to do with us, we don't own the town just cos we live here.

Let the Thai Authorities deal with it if they see it as such a henious crime.

Burger

There are 2 points that come out of that post Burger; firstly, you do see, on occasion, the more extreme offenders being dealt with by the police, although normally they are people who have undressed too much while on the beach, rather than walking around town. I think I, and the others who have commented on it, have been here long enough to know what the Thais find offensive or disrespectful, but also know that it is not in the Thai nature to go and tell someone when they have been offended in this way. The important thing about this discussion is that for those of us who live here it is another thing that degrades us and will probably lead us to being treated with less and less respect by Thais (not those that know us but the average Thai in the street). Thus this is a problems that should both concern us and be dealt with in some part by us.
The second thing is that you must walk around with blinkers on if you don't see a majority of Thais stare at farangs who are semi nude; admittedly it gets less of a reaction now than it used to but that doesn't mean the Thais like it. Anyway, as I have stated before (I think) in this thread, I don't think it is acceptable behaviour anywhere, including my own country so will comment on it from my own perspective and not on behalf of the Thais.

Edit: Just seen Dawn's post after I had posted!

[Burger]

I just can't see what all the fuss is about, I've never seen a Thai offended by a farang walking around in beach wear.
I've seen farang women being looked at by Thai men, but probably for 'other' reasons.

Go to Cha Am on a weekend and you'll see Thai walking round the town dressed just the same as farangs do in HH. Men topless, women in bikinis, while they shop and eat. So they do the same.

You all sound like a load of do-good 'Mary Whitehouse's' to me.

Burger

[lomuamart]

Well, those women who show some whatever are "asking for it", arn't they?
I'm sure I don't need to relate to horrible incidents in this country, do I?
Burger, you've got your eyes closed.
You've made really stupid comments. Don't wind me up.

[Big Boy]

Burger wrote:

And I have seen 12,575 Thai's taking not a blind bit of notice of a holiday maker coming off the beach in their ...... wait for it ..... beach clothing.

I am sorry, I had been assuming that you were just trying to wind everybody up. I didn't realise that you had been so concerned that you felt the need to stand by the beach for a period and conduct a survey. Did your survey include asking them what they really thought, rather than just ignoring the crazy farang?

I don't have the pleasure of actually living in Thailand yet, although I feel I am a regular visitor. I tend to mix in 50/50 Thai/Farang circles when in Thailand, and I have been perceptive enough to realise that our hosts often tolerate what us farangs do, but it doesn't mean they are oblivious to our actions; and they certainly see what we do. I often think that on many occasions they simply tolerate us for our money - afraid that if they say something, we will take our money to the next street vendor, catch the next tuk tuk, won't tip them, start holidaying elsewhere etc etc. After all, a lot of the Thais are not local to Hua Hin - they have moved to Hua Hin looking to make a living that is largely reliant upon farang money.

There will of course be the odd exception to the rule in terms of how our hosts perceive the actions of these farang who either just don't understand the effect their actions could be having, or those deliberately antagonising our hosts. Yes you will see the odd Thai person mimicking farangs - its natural that they want to be like a farang (not old and fat, but seen as having wealth). It happens everywhere amongst Thai and farang alike. We've had a thread on this board recently about British kids wanting to be whiggers (white niggers) because they think it looks and sounds cool - when I was growing up, in a lot of cases coloured people were considered to be a lower class (regardless of whether they were or not).

I suppose there will always be the odd antagonist who considers that he knows best, and will continue to ignore the customs of their hosts. Luckily those that feel that way are still in the minority. Personally, I don't think there is any excuse for these actions - if you know the customs that you are abusing. It is when this deliberate abuse of local custom by farangs becomes the norm, that we will no longer be welcome - money or no money.

[Burger]

Well, those women who show some whatever are "asking for it", arn't they?
I'm sure I don't need to relate to horrible incidents in this country, do I?
Burger, you've got your eyes closed.
You've made really stupid comments. Don't wind me up.

Thai men looking for 'other' reasons, being from an 'admiring/fancing' point of view, you're over-reacting to a simple comment.

I just can't believe how prudish you all seem to me, for something that is a normal situation the world over at beach resorts (apart from obviously some Arab countries).

I'll leave you all to it as I'm spoiling the thread now.

Burger

[lomuamart]

Well, those women who show some whatever are "asking for it", arn't they?
I'm sure I don't need to relate to horrible incidents in this country, do I?
Burger, you've got your eyes closed.
You've made really stupid comments. Don't wind me up.

Thai men looking for 'other' reasons, being from an 'admiring/fancing' point of view, you're over-reacting to a simple comment.

I just can't believe how prudish you all seem to me, for something that is a normal situation the world over at beach resorts (apart from obviously some Arab countries).

I'll leave you all to it as I'm spoiling the thread now.

Burger

Good idea.

[STEVE G]

On Thai attitudes to decency, following the furor surrounding 22 year old Thai actress, Chotiros Suriyawong losing her job for wearing a too revealing dress at an awards ceromony, I found the following in the western press:

"...with its preponderance of lady-boy bars catering to tourists, Thailand may be the only country in the world where only men are allowed to wear split skirts and cleavage-revealing tops."

[Vital Spark]

Steve: I don't know if she lost her job, she's fourth-year student at Thamassat University, but the Rector at the Uni. wagged his finger and she now has to do 15 hours community service (reading books to blind students).
However, it does go to show the tolerance that Thais have for some things, and not (in our minds) for others. I teach 21-year old male students who are wearing mini-skirts, make-up and (sometimes) have an attitude problem. The other (98%) in the class just accept them. I, quite frankly, find them distasteful - although I obviously don't show it.
I also teach a culture class, when I can be quite blunt about cultural differences. I tell them that if a man walks down an average high street in the UK dressed as a transvestite, they would have abuse, sniggers, pointing of fingers, etc. (if they're lucky...).
The tolerance of the Thais (to certain things) is, and will continue to be, a total mystery to me.

[PeteC]

.....The tolerance of the Thais (to certain things) is, and will continue to be, a total mystery to me.

I think part of the equation is that Thailand has always been a male dominated society with vastly different rules for men than for women. Just about anything and everything a man does within reason socially or sexually is acceptable, inclusive of dressing like a woman. Rules are far, far different for women. Pete

[STEVE G]

Pete, blokes wearing dresses might be acceptable, but you would have to shave more than your chin to get away with wearing that one!

[PeteC]

Next time you're at the beach here Steve, give girl watching a miss for awhile and check out the legs of the Thai men wearing shorts and bathing suits. Vast majority are as bald as a baby's butt. I've seen Thai country girls with more hair on their legs than most men.

Gillette Trac III and Sensor cartridges are so damn expensive here as a Thai man can use one for a month if not two! I just bought a 5 pack today of Sensor Excel and it cost bloody 250 Baht. That's 50 Baht apiece at 3 shaves per.

Also, the Lady Boys take some kind of hormone that stops body hair growth, so I'm told.

Anyway, the caberet shows over here at Tiffany's and Alcazar draw huge farang crowds as indeed those performers are better looking than the majority of Thai women here...LOL.

[DawnHRD]

OK, I think I've seen the ultimate today.

A middle aged farang woman changing her top in the middle of Chomsin Road (Nr traffic lights & [unoccupied, unfortunately] police box) at about 11:30am. She stripped down to bra, to try on a top, saw how it fitted, took it off again & put her old top on again. In full view of all the stopped traffic at the lights. What was the top she was trying on?.......








...........One of the yellow ones with the King's insignia and blue trim (presumably for the Queen). I'm sorry, you can disagree with me as much as you want, Burger, but to me that is the ultimate in disrespect!

And don't try to tell me I'm being prudish - even in our own countries we try things on in changing rooms!

[Vital Spark]

You're certainly not being prudish Dawn. How did you stop yourself from walking over and finding out why she was doing a striptease in the middle of a busy cross-roads?
Would she do it in her native land? I very much doubt it - so why the flipping heck does she do it here.
I was given a T-shirt by my lovely students the other day, and they wanted to make sure that they had given me the right size so they insisted I tried it on. I squeezed it over my head, and the top I was wearing. Suay maak.... came the reply. Trying to get it off without removing my other top was impossible, 'Excuse me, I'll be back in a minute', - rolls of laughter. I went to the loos, squeezed it off again, came back to the classroom with hair all over the place - rolls of laughter again. They would have been hugely embarrassed if I had exposed my belly, bra etc. (so would I ).

BTW Dawn, was she a young, bronzed, suntanned beauty or one of the other ones? Both unacceptable, but one being slightly less repulsive...

[DawnHRD]

BTW Dawn, was she a young, bronzed, suntanned beauty or one of the other ones? Both unacceptable, but one being slightly less repulsive...

The white, pasty, overweight, older type. So slightly more repulsive, yep...

BTW, was in a car with a just neutered dog on my lap, so not really in a position to say anything. Just to give you all a laugh, the dog emptied his extremely full bladder all over my lap shortly after that....