Living on 1000 baht per day

[GLCQuantum]

Today is taken care of.
I have won 1000b on the lottery
How do I claim my winnings?????

If you win a larger amount you have to go to the GLO (Government Lottery Office) where you receive a cheque. However, as your winning is less than 20,000 baht, you can just go to a local agent and he/she will give the money to you in cash. There is tax, which you’ll have to pay in order to get the money. The nominal rate is 50 satang for every one hundred baht. If you cash your money at a local agent, they’ll normally charge you about 2 baht for every one hundred baht.

[Dr Michael]

And the local agent would be where??

[Coldmike]

From an American perspective, 1000 baht or 2 or even 3 is a bargain.
SuperJoe had it right... you must buy your residence if at all possible. Property taxes in Thailand are insignificant and unless you live in a fancy condo or live in a hi-so moobahn (or have a manicured football field for a yard, HHF) , there are minimal monthly assessments or costs.

American real estate has been in a nose-dive for the past few years, but property taxes continue to rise. Most nice suburban areas have property taxes of 1000 baht per day (or much more ) Despite that, most cities and state are still facing desperate budget shortfalls so taxes will continue to rise . Owning your home free and clear in the US doesn't mean much in retirement with that expense.

Yea, cars are ridiculously expensive, but once you have it paid for, it will last much longer than in the US. Maintenance and repairs are dirt cheap compared to the US and I'm sure the same goes for Europe.

Despite inflation Thailand is still a great bargain for Americans when compared to the alternative in the US. Bt1000 is a good target for now, but keep big reserves for travel home for visits or emergencies.

[GLCQuantum]

Sorry Dr Mike... I just copy and pasted that from another site. Not sure where the local agents are - I'm assuming they're the guys walking round with the tickets - not sure.

[dtaai-maai]

Dr Mike - Mrs D-M says the lottery lady has a shop on Sra Song road near Chat Chai market. Sorry I can't be more specific, though if you'd won a million I'd get her to drive you there herself...

[JAFO]

From an American perspective, 1000 baht or 2 or even 3 is a bargain.
SuperJoe had it right... you must buy your residence if at all possible. Property taxes in Thailand are insignificant and unless you live in a fancy condo or live in a hi-so moobahn (or have a manicured football field for a yard, HHF) , there are minimal monthly assessments or costs.

American real estate has been in a nose-dive for the past few years, but property taxes continue to rise. Most nice suburban areas have property taxes of 1000 baht per day (or much more ) Despite that, most cities and state are still facing desperate budget shortfalls so taxes will continue to rise . Owning your home free and clear in the US doesn't mean much in retirement with that expense.

Yea, cars are ridiculously expensive, but once you have it paid for, it will last much longer than in the US. Maintenance and repairs are dirt cheap compared to the US and I'm sure the same goes for Europe.

Despite inflation Thailand is still a great bargain for Americans when compared to the alternative in the US. Bt1000 is a good target for now, but keep big reserves for travel home for visits or emergencies.

Yes real estate is still declining but property taxes are not rising. They are staying the same which makes them outrageously expensive. However you can have your land/dwelling re-assessed and apply for reduced property taxes based on county assessed value. Lots of people are doing this and saving thousands.

In most regions home property taxes are based on appx 1 to 1.5% of the homes sale price. So in reality if you buy now you can enjoy much lower property taxes. . This is one of the key reasons I am moving back to California. I can have a quality home on 2 to 5 acres that is mine and I am not checking in every 90 days.

In fairness it is very hard to fairly compare COL between TL and the US for a myriad of reasons. Some years back I was all on board this was a killer deal here but after the dust settles and you see what you exchange for the "perceived" lower price its not so glamorous. A nice home is running 3 to 6 million baht($100 to $200K usd). Then you have to furnish it which is far more expensive then the US unless you sleep on a Thai bed with no AC and watch a computer screen monitor for a TV.

The single largest downside is that while you own your home here and the taxes are lower you cannot leverage your equity or assets to free up cash. This can be a significant issue later in life. Seems all fine and dandy now. Wrapping up all your cash or spending your pension early to build your home can very easily backfire. Plus as a foreigner you really cannot own the land which is a huge issue IMHO. There is a ton of risk here. Right now you can have a nice place in the US in virtually any state from $100 to $250K with land in your name and you do not have to tie up all your reserves buying it. You can leverage it later in life. Plus here in Thailand if you have a change of heart or things change and you want to or have to leave, selling a house here can take years. Some never sell. There is no infrastructure to support home sales. Plus with no effective appraisal system your FMV is based on an opinion. You couple that with the huge housing building going on currently, Thais will buy a new house long before they will buy yours. A lot is based around superstition and such. So you have to hope you have another Farang with a couple hundred grand liquid to buy it. Hard sell indeed.

Do not get me wrong I am all for living with less but how much is too far?

Also it is advisable to consider the secondary and tertiary factors that loom. When you factor in 90 day check in process( which in the beginning was no big deal but it is actually feels like a form of imprisonment. Its like you are living in a minimum security prison and you check in with your Thai parole officer), the cost of occasionally taking in some western cuisine, entertainment, the cost of a descent vehicle here, The rising cost of fuel, the fluctuating Baht to Dollar conversion again its not so glamorous. Plus do not forget the "Farang" fee which is applied as soon as you walk into any store or business. The list is pretty large. I did a spread sheet some 4 years back and it was rather eye opening. I am glad I did this before I bought any high ticket item.

One thing I have learned is its cheap to be poor here and expensive as hell to be middle class and trust me if you lived in the US for most if not all of your life it is hard to just let go of those things. I am not saying you cannot have a good time here and enjoy the new and exciting things Thailand has to offer but once you peel the onion back so to speak there is a darkside that should keep Farangs very cautious. When I have been asked I tell folks to rent and live here 5 years before they take a house plunge. It can have a serious life changing affect on people and if you are older your money earning years are probably behind you.

[Siani]

They say on another post (feeding time) that you can go to an eat as much as you like for 100 baht in the "Thai BBQ" . So if really on a tight budget you can go there or if needed.. a farang food fix KFC at 89 baht Teaming up with the cheap breakfast offers...you should be well in

[Pleng]

Yes KFC prices surprised me somewhat. McDonalds and Burger King appear to be pretty close to UK prices, but KFC are way under. I didn't really expect that because last time I visited KFC in Thailand was in Samui, where prices were much higher (again closer to UK prices).

I tend to prefer my chicken grilled with sticky rice, but KFC does tempt me away occasionally

[Siani]

Yes KFC prices surprised me somewhat. McDonalds and Burger King appear to be pretty close to UK prices, but KFC are way under. I didn't really expect that because last time I visited KFC in Thailand was in Samui, where prices were much higher (again closer to UK prices).

I tend to prefer my chicken grilled with sticky rice, but KFC does tempt me away occasionally

I am not too keen on it either, I did eat it last time I was in Thailand though ...I was quite suprised at the price of 89 baht..I think it included a coke as well. It was sort of chicken burger in a bun, fries + coke all in for 89 baht. I was in a strange town, a bit remote, it was lunch time, not much else on offer really...but there it was, in a shopping mall...a lot of Thai's eating it, we were the only farangs in there...not like HH. I suppose I may visit there about once a year, if pushed

[chopsticks]

From an American perspective, 1000 baht or 2 or even 3 is a bargain.
SuperJoe had it right... you must buy your residence if at all possible. Property taxes in Thailand are insignificant and unless you live in a fancy condo or live in a hi-so moobahn (or have a manicured football field for a yard, HHF) , there are minimal monthly assessments or costs.

American real estate has been in a nose-dive for the past few years, but property taxes continue to rise. Most nice suburban areas have property taxes of 1000 baht per day (or much more ) Despite that, most cities and state are still facing desperate budget shortfalls so taxes will continue to rise . Owning your home free and clear in the US doesn't mean much in retirement with that expense.

Yea, cars are ridiculously expensive, but once you have it paid for, it will last much longer than in the US. Maintenance and repairs are dirt cheap compared to the US and I'm sure the same goes for Europe.

Despite inflation Thailand is still a great bargain for Americans when compared to the alternative in the US. Bt1000 is a good target for now, but keep big reserves for travel home for visits or emergencies.

Yes real estate is still declining but property taxes are not rising. They are staying the same which makes them outrageously expensive. However you can have your land/dwelling re-assessed and apply for reduced property taxes based on county assessed value. Lots of people are doing this and saving thousands.

In most regions home property taxes are based on appx 1 to 1.5% of the homes sale price. So in reality if you buy now you can enjoy much lower property taxes. . This is one of the key reasons I am moving back to California. I can have a quality home on 2 to 5 acres that is mine and I am not checking in every 90 days.

In fairness it is very hard to fairly compare COL between TL and the US for a myriad of reasons. Some years back I was all on board this was a killer deal here but after the dust settles and you see what you exchange for the "perceived" lower price its not so glamorous. A nice home is running 3 to 6 million baht($100 to $200K usd). Then you have to furnish it which is far more expensive then the US unless you sleep on a Thai bed with no AC and watch a computer screen monitor for a TV.

The single largest downside is that while you own your home here and the taxes are lower you cannot leverage your equity or assets to free up cash. This can be a significant issue later in life. Seems all fine and dandy now. Wrapping up all your cash or spending your pension early to build your home can very easily backfire. Plus as a foreigner you really cannot own the land which is a huge issue IMHO. There is a ton of risk here. Right now you can have a nice place in the US in virtually any state from $100 to $250K with land in your name and you do not have to tie up all your reserves buying it. You can leverage it later in life. Plus here in Thailand if you have a change of heart or things change and you want to or have to leave, selling a house here can take years. Some never sell. There is no infrastructure to support home sales. Plus with no effective appraisal system your FMV is based on an opinion. You couple that with the huge housing building going on currently, Thais will buy a new house long before they will buy yours. A lot is based around superstition and such. So you have to hope you have another Farang with a couple hundred grand liquid to buy it. Hard sell indeed.

Do not get me wrong I am all for living with less but how much is too far?

Also it is advisable to consider the secondary and tertiary factors that loom. When you factor in 90 day check in process( which in the beginning was no big deal but it is actually feels like a form of imprisonment. Its like you are living in a minimum security prison and you check in with your Thai parole officer), the cost of occasionally taking in some western cuisine, entertainment, the cost of a descent vehicle here, The rising cost of fuel, the fluctuating Baht to Dollar conversion again its not so glamorous. Plus do not forget the "Farang" fee which is applied as soon as you walk into any store or business. The list is pretty large. I did a spread sheet some 4 years back and it was rather eye opening. I am glad I did this before I bought any high ticket item.

One thing I have learned is its cheap to be poor here and expensive as hell to be middle class and trust me if you lived in the US for most if not all of your life it is hard to just let go of those things. I am not saying you cannot have a good time here and enjoy the new and exciting things Thailand has to offer but once you peel the onion back so to speak there is a darkside that should keep Farangs very cautious. When I have been asked I tell folks to rent and live here 5 years before they take a house plunge. It can have a serious life changing affect on people and if you are older your money earning years are probably behind you.

Some good points made there which balance out the often rose-tinted view about buying property punted by many property developers and estate agents.

[Homer]

In most regions home property taxes are based on appx 1 to 1.5% of the homes sale price. So in reality if you buy now you can enjoy much lower property taxes. . This is one of the key reasons I am moving back to California. I can have a quality home on 2 to 5 acres that is mine and I am not checking in every 90 days.

I hope for your sake the decision to return to Cali took the state's ongoing debt crisis into consideration.

[hhfarang]

I think JAFO's post above is "spot on" as you guys say. I bought into the dream and am now effectively under "house arrest" because I didn't take into consideration long term financial changes that I had no control over. If I could roll back time I would never move here full time and certainly never buy or build a nice home here, maybe a small condo at most as a holiday home or a small bungalow up in Issan where my wife wants to live when I'm out of the picture, but certainly not a western appointed home similar to the one I lived in in the U.S.

Most of the people posting here are probably still working or are part timers here. Living here long term on an income that was fixed in 2004 and will remain fixed for life is a whole different prospect and there are many things to consider... one really needs a good crystal ball.

If one wants or has to retire overseas on a budget there are much better options for Americans...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-plac ... 50049.html

[dozer]

HHF I have noticed that during the last few years you have become really despondent about your perceived misfortune, you need to get off your butt and do something about it rather than continually moaning and whining.

[hhfarang]

I'm open to suggestions...

[Super Joe]

Some years back I was all on board this was a killer deal here but after the dust settles and you see what you exchange for the "perceived" lower price its not so glamorous. A nice home is running 3 to 6 million baht($100 to $200K usd). Right now you can have a nice place in the US in virtually any state from $100 to $250K with land in your name and you do not have to tie up all your reserves buying it.

You make some valid points JAFO, particularly about renting and seeing if you like the place or not, it could be a mini disaster needing to return when someone's in their later years. To me, these current low prices in the US/UK etc just highlight the weakness in our markets in the West, and whilst a great opportunity for someone like yourself who is returning, they're the last thing your average retiree wants to negotiate I'd have thought, whichever direction he's moving. There's a lot of folk stuck on the wrong side of the timing roulette at the moment who have seen their retirement plans dashed by 5-10 years. Price stability will be a retirees friend, especially those past their working days. People have seen a lot of value wiped off their main asset back home and still can not sell them, whilst the market is dead here too at least property has generally retained it's value and remained stable.

Also the prices you mention, $100 to $250k, these aren't like-for-like properties located a few kms from the coast at popular resort towns are they. These comparisons have been mentioned previously, and when looking at property values in similar locations to Hua Hin, ie: Boca Raton, Florida, the equivalent of a 5m Baht, 3 bed, pool-villa 3kms from the beach here, can not be found under $600k, 18M Baht. T.I.G.R. made this comparison when it came up previously, and I appreciate California is expensive and above Hua Hin's station etc, but even so... "Cost of 247 sq. mtr. condo in Cha Am, 3 br. 4bath absolute beach-front 8,000,000 Bht. Comparative costs of similar beachside housing in the U.S. would be a couple of million dollars at least. Property taxes: Here ZERO, Calif. 17,000 Bht a month."
And 17k/month taxes!!, HHF's was 15k/month tax & insurance... that's someone's rent alone here... or over half the 1,000 Baht/month spending allowance this thread's about

Plus here in Thailand if you have a change of heart or things change and you want to or have to leave, selling a house here can take years. Some never sell. There is no infrastructure to support home sales. Plus with no effective appraisal system your FMV is based on an opinion. You couple that with the huge housing building going on currently, Thais will buy a new house long before they will buy yours. A lot is based around superstition and such.

Thais don't buy a typical 'farang' house here, it would likely be a farang. People had no real problems selling resales before the crash hit. Now it's pretty dead, but isn't it the same the world over. Properties in the U.S. are hardly moving, in the UK sales have been the worst since 1978 I read... and that's with 25-35% reductions from previous highs in 2005-06. What happens if you're desperate to sell, drop to 50% down!? Here because they've held their value, people market a 2005 7M Baht property for maybe 10M, if they wanted to reduce it by 35% of the 2005 price to 4.5M, no doubt they would sell.

The single largest downside is that while you own your home here and the taxes are lower you cannot leverage your equity or assets to free up cash. This can be a significant issue later in life. Seems all fine and dandy now. Wrapping up all your cash or spending your pension early to build your home can very easily backfire.

You can leverage here quite easily if you have a Thai partner who's working. You can also leverage here quite easily whether you have a working Thai partner or not, BUT the rates are high this way, 24% p.a. So perhaps more of an emergency one that.

But getting back to my main point about renting vs buying, the problem I see is that your capital sum (ie: equivalent property value), will all be expended after 14 - 20 years because annual rents run at between 5%-7% of property values but your investment growth will be around 4%. And that's just based on property values increasing level with inflation, ie: your 4% growth... I don't believe there's a cat in hells chance they will not exceed that. That's also not taking into account any exchange rate risk. What happens when your capital sum grows by 4% p.a. and pays out 6% p.a. in rents is that it rapidly diminishes as the rental rapidly increases,... by year 8 the rents are 10% of your remaining invested sum... year 12 they're 16%... year 15 they're 30% etc etc.

So based on a 4M Baht house over 25 years, assuming 4% inflation on both your investment & property prices, you'll end up spending the original 4M + an additional 4M in rents (in today's money), instead of holding a 4M Baht asset (should property only grow at 4%). 12M Baht difference If property prices (and therefore rents) increased a couple of % above what you are achieving on the invested capital sum, the effect would be devestating to a tight budget.

SJ