The thing you miss the most?

[Big Boy]

my (Thai) wife that will wear sweat pants, sweat shirt and another hoodie sweatshirt to bed with a down comforter on top

That seems to be Mrs BB's summer bedtime attire these days I think she's trying to make sure that I don't change my mind about moving to Thailand

[hhfarang]

I would love that right now! I wear only shorts and t-shirts and am still always wet to the point that I'm growing moss in my nooks and crannies . There is no way to keep from being sweat soaked 24/7 without paying a high air con bill and I am sick of it. I can't wait to get out of this tropical climate at the soonest I can afford a plane ticket.

[JAFO]

Things I miss living here....

Where to begin. Please keep in mind not whining but just stating how it is for me.

* I miss my family and friends and more over intellectual stimulating conversation and joking around.

* Meeting quality people to associate with. I am not an old guy on my last leg and would love to meet folks that are active and energetic with a sense of humor. (And NO golfing and lounging by the pool tanning is not energetic)

* Fishing in clear river water with rapids versus Fish parks where you catch garbage bottom feeders on bread.

* I miss being able to buy a nice house with a bit of land that you can put in your name and not have to have your Thai gal own it all. (In the US now you can have this and cheaper then here in Thailand)

* Clean neighborhoods that do not have garbage everywhere.

* Miss being able to meet up with a few friends at a bar and not be approached by bar girls. Man is that annoying. I also miss the mixed age group. In the the US I had friends from 30 to 50. Here there are simply too many old coffin dodgers.

* I miss being able to buy a big cc motorcycle at a reasonable price

* I miss wakeboarding, wakeskating and tubing with friends.

* Catching a Live NFL game or NASCAR and NHRA car race event.

* A Casino

* A Good friggen beer. Thai beer is simply nothing more then Elephant piss in a bottle and in the end its not very cheap because you have to drink a ton of the crap.

* At least 3 seasons

* I miss wearing shorts and T shirts at night as here you get raped by mosquito's

* I miss Turkey hunting

Things I do not miss while I have lived here

* Corporate America

* Excessive consumerism

* The 'Keep up with the Joneses" crap

* Snobby house parties where people sit around and brag about their wine tasting expertise while eating overpriced cheese and specialty grapes LOL

* US Taxes

* I do not miss US TV and relentless commercials advertising; Cialis, Viagra, Lipitor, Lunesta, and the other 800,000 other meds they sell the sheeple Americans.

* I do not miss Walmarts, Targets

*I do not miss most US holidays, especially Christmas and all the BS that goes with it

* I do not miss how everything is over governed.

Conclusion;
I have been here ~5 years and have traveled around this country North to South. I came here alone to travel and see it and then decided to stay. But I have reached a point now that I have entered the Thai society and there is a pretty dark/seedy side to it. I have decided to head back to the US for the time being and buy a nice little place on some land, have it be in my name, enjoy some good beer, fish, Good Salsa and Tortilla chips, watch some NASCAR and own a small truck for an affordable price and not have to check in every 90 days. I will miss alternative fuel cars a lot as LPG and CNG are simply not part of the US and its a shame. I will also miss the daily markets here for fresh food as to eat well in the US is costly and honestly quite hard to do when as you are inundated with McD's. Buger King, Carls Juniors, Wendy's, Taco bell and a host of other places. But I can interact with sober intelligent people across a large age spectrum and if I meet a woman its because I want to not because I staggered down to the local bar and waited for some young Thai gal to call me a Hansum man buy me a drink?

I think Thailand is a great place for retired couples 62 and up as your pension can work for you or men who struggled in their home country meeting women. This is your place

I am taking my Thai friend back with me to visit. It will be refreshing to walk along with her and not have other Farangs look at her to compare her to who they are with and moreover Thais not looking at her like a whore because they all think Thai women with a foreigner men did it for the money. I hope she wants to hang out for awhile. It could be fun.

[richard]

JEFO

Good post Honest and to the point

Hope all works out buddy.

I can empathise with some of your views (I'm a Brit though) but well spoken IMO. I get highs and lows as I'm sure we all do after a spell but for me at the moment the highs are in favour of me staying here

[JAFO]

JEFO

Good post Honest and to the point

Hope all works out buddy.

I can empathise with some of your views (I'm a Brit though) but well spoken IMO. I get highs and lows as I'm sure we all do after a spell but for me at the moment the highs are in favour of me staying here

Thanks Richard, I am not bashing Thailand. These are my personal observations. I think after 5 years I have seen enough to know. I have a few Brit friends that I talk with and I understand your position.

The US is still not golden by any means but for me at my age, mindset, energy level and need for social interaction it is time for me to go. I might be back later who knows. I do like it it here, do not get me wrong, but I feel like I am living in a vacuum.

[hhfarang]

Yes JAFO, good post and I agree with most of it. Wish I was going back but unfortunately I'm one of those "coffin dodgers" and my bridges are burnt.

Good luck and let us know how you feel after being back a while. The huahinforum will still be only a click or two away.

[Dr Michael]

It is interesting to talk to people who have lived in Asia for years and then have gone back to their own country. "Reverse Culture Shock" is a real problem for them.
Without realising it, the Asian experience had changed them. Their home country seemed strange and uncomfortable. They all say this caught them by surprise, they had visited several times during their Asian stay, but it was only when they went home to stay that these feelings emerged.

[Takiap]

Good post JAFO. I agree with much of what you've said, but of course everyone is different, so what appeals to one doesn't necessarily appeal to the next. For example, you mention that you feel as though you're in a vacuum here, with a shortage of friends and etc. I on the other hand would be perfectly happy on an Island where I am the only human there......lol. I really need "alone" time, and in Thailand I can have it whenever I want it. When I go off to be alone, my wife knows it's just the way I am, and she's okay with that, so all is good.


One point you mentioned which I think you're going to find to be not as expected, is the "people staring" point you raised. From my experience, there was far more staring when my wife and I were in the UK than we encounter here. I also can't say I've ever felt as though other Farang are comparing my wife to theirs. Most Thais who stare at Farang/Thai couples do so because that's just what Asians do.......they stare. Those who look at a Thai women with a Farang man as being a whore, are almost always rich stuck up assholes from the big mango. Most everyday Thais couldn't care less, depending of course, at least to a certain extent, on appearance.


Anyway, all the best of luck when you leave, and and as has already been pointed out, this forum is just a few clicks away, and I'm sure many of us would like to know how you find the readjusting to Western life.

[hhfarang]

Dr Mike, I did experience the reverse culture shock you mentioned upon returning (to the U.S.) from living for four years in Saudi Arabia, but it didn't take me long to get over it.

[Pleng]

JAFO

I have picked a number of points of yours to respond to, simply because I found it a very interesting list. Each point you made gave me pretty much a different reaction from 'yes I concurr' to 'really?!' and everything in between

Things I miss living here....
* I miss my family and friends and more over intellectual stimulating conversation and joking around.

* Meeting quality people to associate with. I am not an old guy on my last leg and would love to meet folks that are active and energetic with a sense of humor. (And NO golfing and lounging by the pool tanning is not energetic)

I think this is pretty much a given for anybody who has a family that they get on even remotely well with. For me it's not such an issue. Not because I don't have any family, or because I don't get on with them, it's just for the moment most my immediate family for one reason or another have dotted themselves all around the world. They do get together once in the summer and once at Christmas, so I guess I'll miss that at some point. But only 2 months into my move out here, I haven't really had the chance to start to miss that.

As for my friends... well that's a bit more complex. Suffice to say I do miss them, but I must have been lucky in that every time I've come to Thailand I've found quality people to intellectually converse, and joke around with. Probably more so than back home.

Energetic... I can't say I 'miss' being energetic as it's not something I ever managed to maintain for a prolonged period in England either. But I have always wanted to, and still do want, to have a more active lifestyle. I'm not really into Gyms and working out. Something more sporty and a little bit competitive. I like go-karting but, although cheap compared to England, it's still expensive when put in context of my weekly budget over here for the next year or so. A kick around with a football, or a little five-a-side would be perfect.

Trouble is (and yes, one can always find reasons NOT to exercise, but!) the times I'm available to do such things, anybody else I know who might be up for it would be working.

* I miss being able to buy a nice house with a bit of land that you can put in your name and not have to have your Thai gal own it all. (In the US now you can have this and cheaper then here in Thailand)

Being able to buy my own house is a luxury I've never been afforded To be honest, my girlfriend probably has more chance of getting her own house than me over the next few years if her career moves on anyway. I'm not keen on buying anyway. I like to be able to just leave somewhere if I want.

* Clean neighborhoods that do not have garbage everywhere.

Yeah it would be nice if the place were a bit tidier. Can't say I particularly *miss* clean neighborhoods though.

* Miss being able to meet up with a few friends at a bar and not be approached by bar girls. Man is that annoying. I also miss the mixed age group. In the the US I had friends from 30 to 50. Here there are simply too many old coffin dodgers.

There are bars you can go to here that you won't get bothered by bar girls. Retro springs to mind. But yea, if you want a 'night out' style experience in a zone full of bars, you're gonna get the bar girl thing going on. I can't say as it upsets me too much, though. I'm not a particularly shallow guy but, yea, I do like the attention!

* Catching a Live NFL game or NASCAR and NHRA car race event.

Well F1 is my thing, and the price of tickets for the British Grand Prix pretty much rule out the chance of seeing it live. I probably have more chance of seeing a live race from where I am now. Malaysia, China, Japan, Korea and Singapore all host races so one could budget it into a 'holiday'. Probably not for the next couple of years though...

* A Good friggen beer. Thai beer is simply nothing more then Elephant piss in a bottle and in the end its not very cheap because you have to drink a ton of the crap.

As I've said in another thread Larger is pretty much Larger to me. There's not a great variety of difference between brands. Luckily for me I like Larger, and Singha, Chang, and Leo are all just fine by me. If you're an Ale drinker (and I presume from the fact you find Chang at 6% weak, you are an Ale drinker!) then yes it must be pretty difficult.

Things I do not miss while I have lived here

* Corporate America

* Excessive consumerism

Well I think consumerism here is only less excessive because there's less money in the first place. I see plenty of Corporate America seeping through here.

* The 'Keep up with the Joneses" crap

That's here. See the microwave thread!

* Snobby house parties where people sit around and brag about their wine tasting expertise while eating overpriced cheese and specialty grapes LOL

Hmmm. I can't stand wine, or raw cheese. My family all love Wine and Cheese (and Olives. Ugh!) so I'm a bit of a black sheep in that respect. Just hearing them talk about wines makes me cringe!

* I do not miss US TV and relentless commercials advertising; Cialis, Viagra, Lipitor, Lunesta, and the other 800,000 other meds they sell the sheeple Americans.

Thai TV is better?

*I do not miss most US holidays, especially Christmas and all the BS that goes with it

I haven't been here long enough to have an opinion in this. Will be interesting to revisit the point in a couple of years. Two years ago I had one Christmas away from the family, here in Thailand (Samui) and it was, to be honest, awesome! Didn't miss Christmas at all. But then that was just one isolated year. Whether I will miss it after missing two or three years in a row remains to be seen.

* I do not miss how everything is over governed.

Like Visas/Work Permits..?

[Korkenzieher]

As a Brit, I can honestly say I do not miss the UK but I do miss some things about (mainland) Europe - Skiing, Tuscany, reasonably priced wine and so on. I certainly agree with JAFO about the dead hand of excessive regulation in every part of life, and the comparitive lack of same here.

But in making comparisons, when one takes an objective look at things like land-ownership rules, the infrastructure deficit, questionable political framework etc. then you can wonder what it is exactly that Thailand has over other tropical locations, and more specifically over Florida. It is pretty hard to see Thailand's advantage as other than the sex trade (for want of a more elegant phrase), at least for a sizable percentage of the expats here. And that is quite a sad conclusion.

Also, as far as acceptance of a Thai wife goes I am fairly confident that it would be much less of an issue in the US than in the UK or Germany. Some of the comments I have heard from Brits, in the UK about Thais in general and Thai wives of white Europeans give new meaning to the word 'offensive'! Any USers care to comment?

[JAFO]

Thanks for the responses. Again I reiterate I am not bashing Thailand. And I do apologize if I said anything off color, especially the old coffin dodgers crack. It is what it is here.

So a couple of comments I have about reverse culture shock, if you do not have financial reserves and have to go back and start over this could be overwhelming and painful. If you are beyond the "work years" then it could be devastating. I am a very social and active guy so re-entering the mix will be quite easy. I came here with an open mind and will return to the US with an open mind.

As for being stared at, I am moving back to the heart of California and me walking around with my Thai friend(Not my wife, not my GF) will go completely unnoticed. In fact that is one of the beauties of going back is the cultural diversity in California. Here is a bit to homogeneous for me at times and when you see foreigners with Thai women its usually the very old man with the far younger Thai women. I have done a ton of traveling with my friend and the stares are annoying. Its even more of an annoyance when other foreigners do it.

My reasons for going back are pretty straight forward in the fact that personal and intellectual interaction are important to me along with endless activities. I am not a sedentary guy that can sit for hours and hours everyday in front of a computer or TV. There are times when I feel like I am going backwards. I thought learning Thai would help but its not the language barrier its the level of education, common sense and street smarts that Thais in general are way behind on. Its like children are running the country. I scratch my head regularly with things I see happening here. Again its Thai life. The trade off of course to level the field is more western living which it appears most are running from. "Simple" works for some, others it wears thin very fast. I have heard many comments over my years here that Thailand now is like the late 70's early 80's in the US. I tend to agree on some of that. But the financial benefit of moving here is quickly leaving so what you are giving up to come is not such a greener pasture. Corrupt police, unstable government, Thais general lack of respect for their environment, etc etc. Again not picking on Thailand but looking at what you leave behind coming here to save a few bucks on rent and food.

As for beer comment from above...I am wheat beer micro brewery type beer drinker. Lager beers just lack body and flavor and I find you have to drink a ton of it here and honestly I do not drink that much. Just a few and some chatting with friends covers me for a few weeks.

As for the sex trade and bar girl scene throughout Thailand, it never appealed to me. I have never been and I am proud to be able to say that. Again to each his own but when I walk by a bar and see it loaded with 20 to 25 or so old men groping and hanging all over pubescent teens it kind of creeps me out. I guess it ones own personal threshold. I have not found a bar yet that this will not happen. Even the 5 star hotels in BKK have solicitation even though they are less obvious about it, it is still present.

To me there is simply no comparison on what you can do in the US versus Thailand (I speak of the US not UK). After you see all the islands, rivers, lakes and temples here you are pretty much done then what? I am cognizant now I retired to soon. I wanted out and set up a good plan and could easily live here until they burn me. However I did not think about my personal activity needs and quality friends. I tried replacing the things I did in the US with things here and they are pretty lack luster and some of them are cost prohibitive. As for friends I thought I would just meet new folks, well that is not so easy here based on the age of the vast majority of foreigner people here.


I cant wait to hear the roar of the crowd in a football stadium, Sit at a race track and watch NASCAR, NHRA or AMA, enjoy some gambling and night life, easily find anything I need when I need it, The water running over the rocks while I am fly fishing in the pine tree filled hills, The snow on the mountains, walking into a bar and see 10 awesome beers on tap and no bar girls and 5 or 6 friends smiling knowing we are going to talk about a huge cross section of things, buying a hunk of land and knowing it is mine, waving to my friend driving the boat to "Hit it" as I pop up out the water on my wakeskate on crystal clear glass water, walking into an auto parts store and getting the exact part I need and not getting the deer in the headlight look I get here. The list is pretty big and I realize I took these things for granted somewhere along the line. I thought going back and forth would be an option but the last time I went(Last Sept to October) after returning here I was almost instantly bored.

The only downside I see is I will probably have to go back to work which isn't such a bad thing. I can bank more reserves and it will give me a purpose. Retirement is awesome and I really enjoy it, but here there is simply not a lot to do. I have dabbled in a few things but the effort you put out and the money you make is simply not worth the time you have to commit to make it happen.

Anyway I have enjoyed my stay. I have some awesome pictures, some great memories, met some nice Thai folks, learned a lot about SE Asia being I visited, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Vietnam, Macau, SZ China etc but glad I only rented and can pack up camp and return.

[JAFO]

Yes JAFO, good post and I agree with most of it. Wish I was going back but unfortunately I'm one of those "coffin dodgers" and my bridges are burnt.

Good luck and let us know how you feel after being back a while. The huahinforum will still be only a click or two away.

HH, I will stay in touch. I suspect I may be back but it may be years from now. I understand your predicament and you are by far not alone. Over my time here I have met dozens who have sold their only road back. Thailand for some is like the song "Hotel California". "You can check out but you can never leave". The lyrics to that song are correlate pretty well to living here.

Good Luck to you as well.

[richard]

JAFO

Best of luck

I have met people from the US here who have a problem making it and re-culturing. Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing yanks but it seems a very high proportion are unable to adapt to an Asian way of life. If there are no burgers, ice cream parlours US football etc then it seems unacceptable

I have many friends here from all over the globe and many are from the states but the only ones from the states who seem to be happy are in Isaan and still MIA or W V's

I don't for one minute believe finding intellectual stimulating conversation cannot be found anywhere in Thailand and I'm a Cambridge Brit

I hope you'll come back as there is a lot more here in SE Asia to offer than the western world. In any case stay in touch

[Pleng]

Thanks for the responses. Again I reiterate I am not bashing Thailand. And I do apologize if I said anything off color, especially the old coffin dodgers crack. It is what it is here.

I don't think anybody here saw your last post as 'bashing Thailand'. You've made interesting points, though as I said in my previous response, some points are somewhat baffling. Your latest post does sound a bit more anti, and you're starting to contradict yourself.

As for being stared at, I am moving back to the heart of California and me walking around with my Thai friend(Not my wife, not my GF) will go completely unnoticed.

Well. If she's hot she'll get stared at. Regardless of nationality.

My reasons for going back are pretty straight forward in the fact that personal and intellectual interaction are important to me along with endless activities. I am not a sedentary guy that can sit for hours and hours everyday in front of a computer or TV. There are times when I feel like I am going backwards. I thought learning Thai would help but its not the language barrier its the level of education, common sense and street smarts that Thais in general are way behind on. Its like children are running the country. I scratch my head regularly with things I see happening here. Again its Thai life. The trade off of course to level the field is more western living which it appears most are running from. "Simple" works for some, others it wears thin very fast.

This I take exception to. I think if you have not managed to find intellectually stimulating conversation then you have really not been meeting people from the right places. I wonder where you do find your Thai company. As you seem to loathe the bar scene (where of course you're not going to be talking deep politics), I wonder where you meet friends. Maybe you've just been unable to form friendships and this has been the source of your irritations.

As for the sex trade and bar girl scene throughout Thailand, it never appealed to me. I have never been and I am proud to be able to say that. Again to each his own but when I walk by a bar and see it loaded with 20 to 25 or so old men groping and hanging all over pubescent teens it kind of creeps me out. I guess it ones own personal threshold. I have not found a bar yet that this will not happen. Even the 5 star hotels in BKK have solicitation even though they are less obvious about it, it is still present.

OK if you deteste the sex trade then a country that (almost) openly flaunts it in your face is clearly not for you. But the fact that you say that you have not yet found a bar where this will not happen just goes to reiterate my belief that you haven't really made much effort. It seems you've seen that the bars are in Bintahbaht and you've decided "oh well this is all we have".

As I said before, Retro bar you will NOT get solicited by girls. There's a bar near the small night market, can't remember the name; "Hua Haa...something something"... there's a few chang signs hanging from the building and some of the 'picnic' style tables outside. No girls will approach you from within. There are plenty of bars in the Khao Takiab area that do not have any sexy sexy.

As I say; if you don't know these places exist, how hard have you been looking?

As for friends I thought I would just meet new folks, well that is not so easy here based on the age of the vast majority of foreigner people here.

I thought language was no longer a barrier for you when meeting people? So why is it you've been unable to 'meet new folks'?

I cant wait to..... Retirement is awesome and I really enjoy it, but here there is simply not a lot to do.

And here is what I think the issue really is for you. All those things you can't wait to do; if you remain retired you will probably tire of doing those things over and over again to fill your time. If you're only doing the things you love in your spare time then they seem more special. If you have to fill all day every day with these things you're more than likely going to grow bored of them. This is what's happened here. You don't or can't work; so you have little to do. Couple that with the fact you don't seem to have made too many friends, you've got nobody to do those things with.

Anyway I have enjoyed my stay. I have some awesome pictures, some great memories, met some nice Thai folks, learned a lot about SE Asia being I visited, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Vietnam, Macau, SZ China etc but glad I only rented and can pack up camp and return.

And it sounds like the time is definitely right for you to go back to the USA; while those memories are happy ones, and you haven't had the time to grow to resent the place. Which is clearly what would happen if you continued to stay here.

So congrats on making the right choice for you. But I still think that some (not all, by any means) of your gripes with the place are misplaced.