quote "OK, when we started out, I invested a little money in getting the business started, "
That makes you a business partner in my book and great for you and your missus and as long as you are meeting the requirements and not working illegaly brilliant
Although you are playing fast and loose with the sole finance provider as quoted no start up money no business
As for being in a new century Mrs Sarge had the Joint account with the nationwide and her own ATM and for 5 years i did not myself even vaguely go to the bank she drew and spent as she needed
it was only when she blew 500,000 that i stopped that
so can we stop this Sarge is a male chauvanist pig crap its so far from reality its of the chart
Mrs Sarge has a mortgage in her name i pay it
Mrs Sarge has her own business that money is hers
Mrs Sarge will recieve minimum 55,000 (+5% PA )a month for the rest ofher life after my BBQ
WE have been together 11 years UPS and DOWNS
Visa rules hurt married people
sargeant wrote:Mrs Sarge had the Joint account with the nationwide and her own ATM and for 5 years i did not myself even vaguely go to the bank she drew and spent as she needed
Sounds like a 'vague trip' to the bank every now and then was in order Sarge, me old muckersargeant wrote:it was only when she blew 500,000 that i stopped that
SJ
Lomu i agree when you talk about people that have come here met the requirements proved themselves and THEN fallen on hard times
Its the come here dont have it to start with havent been here long enough to prove anything and then bitch because it doesnt go the way they want it to
The i want it
the i am entitled to it
The i dont want to work for it
and the i want it now crowd
It is those that ruin it for the genuine you know as well as i do if the immigration gave me a break all those above would demand it as a right the start of a very slippery slope
Its the come here dont have it to start with havent been here long enough to prove anything and then bitch because it doesnt go the way they want it to
The i want it
the i am entitled to it
The i dont want to work for it
and the i want it now crowd
It is those that ruin it for the genuine you know as well as i do if the immigration gave me a break all those above would demand it as a right the start of a very slippery slope
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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Wanderlust
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- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
SJ,
Firstly, when the Family Income option was introduced they did away with the 400k in the bank option, only to reintroduce it when they did away with the Family Income option near the end of 2008. I remember this as it directly affected me at the time - seethis thread for confirmation.
Secondly, thank you for highlighting the abusers' practices; I had no idea it was a widespread practice to fabricate Thai wives income by paying tax on non existent income - do you have any idea how widespread? I have met one person who has told me that is what they did in the past, and subsequently they now transfer this income to their home country bank account and then use this as evidence of their income, although I can't see why that would be accepted without some proof of where that money comes from. I have to question exactly how many jobs are being taken away from Thais though - I imagine the majority, if not all of the jobs in question would not exist if the farang wasn't here in the first place. Why would someone employ a farang at at least double the wages if there was a Thai who could do the job and without the risk of illegally employing them? Non payment of income tax I can accept as an abuse but in the grand (Thai) scheme of things that is hardly a heinous crime is it? I have to say that all the things you mention are caused directly by the restrictions in place regarding work and work permits as I mentioned earlier. Some of it is also as a result of the constantly shifting rules and interpretations as well.
If the whole system was improved and simplified, so that genuine candidates were given some basic rights when they marry a Thai, such as being able to work and being able to gain Thai citizenship after a qualifying period and only requiring an intensive initial application/investigation including police checks and health checks rather than an annual hoopla and 90 day reporting, it would virtually cut out the abusers you mention, either by them being put off by the initial application or finally being recognised as genuine members of Thai society. It would also have prevented some of the more unseemly things that have been seen here involving farangs, as they would not have been here in the first place.
Firstly, when the Family Income option was introduced they did away with the 400k in the bank option, only to reintroduce it when they did away with the Family Income option near the end of 2008. I remember this as it directly affected me at the time - seethis thread for confirmation.
Secondly, thank you for highlighting the abusers' practices; I had no idea it was a widespread practice to fabricate Thai wives income by paying tax on non existent income - do you have any idea how widespread? I have met one person who has told me that is what they did in the past, and subsequently they now transfer this income to their home country bank account and then use this as evidence of their income, although I can't see why that would be accepted without some proof of where that money comes from. I have to question exactly how many jobs are being taken away from Thais though - I imagine the majority, if not all of the jobs in question would not exist if the farang wasn't here in the first place. Why would someone employ a farang at at least double the wages if there was a Thai who could do the job and without the risk of illegally employing them? Non payment of income tax I can accept as an abuse but in the grand (Thai) scheme of things that is hardly a heinous crime is it? I have to say that all the things you mention are caused directly by the restrictions in place regarding work and work permits as I mentioned earlier. Some of it is also as a result of the constantly shifting rules and interpretations as well.
If the whole system was improved and simplified, so that genuine candidates were given some basic rights when they marry a Thai, such as being able to work and being able to gain Thai citizenship after a qualifying period and only requiring an intensive initial application/investigation including police checks and health checks rather than an annual hoopla and 90 day reporting, it would virtually cut out the abusers you mention, either by them being put off by the initial application or finally being recognised as genuine members of Thai society. It would also have prevented some of the more unseemly things that have been seen here involving farangs, as they would not have been here in the first place.
Let me try and make my position clear i believe there should be a qualifying time 3 or even 5 years if at the end of 5 years you are still meeting the requirements and not breaking the immigration rules one should recieve the same as a woman marrying a Thai man or at the minimum at least only renew once a year grandfathered in as well
Those that were granted visas under the combined income should (providing they are not fraudulent) be granted from that point on but after the rules change sorry all new applications should go by the new rules
and anyone married or otherwise that breaks those rules close the door behind them because its them that make it more difficult for the Thai authorities to trust any farangs whether that is right or wrong
as for his poor wife sorry but we put people in prison for breaking the law we dont let murderers walk because we feel sorry for the wife
Those that were granted visas under the combined income should (providing they are not fraudulent) be granted from that point on but after the rules change sorry all new applications should go by the new rules
and anyone married or otherwise that breaks those rules close the door behind them because its them that make it more difficult for the Thai authorities to trust any farangs whether that is right or wrong
as for his poor wife sorry but we put people in prison for breaking the law we dont let murderers walk because we feel sorry for the wife
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Sarge,
Are you saying that a married couple should prove their pedigree for 3 or 5 years before they are OK?
IMHO, that's wrong. We've discussed the "wrong ones" and again IMHO it's pretty easy for Imm to check up on those.
For me, it dosn't matter whether you're married for one day or ten years. As a married man to a Thai lady, your rights should start on day one.
I'm off to the UK tomorrow for some family business. My wife has been there before. It took her 3 days to get her visitors visa. She could have come again this time, but it just wouldn't be convenient.
At the end of the day, she's my wife and I'm her husband. Why does this country discriminate against farang husbands?
Answer that - without resort to penniless etc - and I'll maybe listen to you.
Chok dii
Are you saying that a married couple should prove their pedigree for 3 or 5 years before they are OK?
IMHO, that's wrong. We've discussed the "wrong ones" and again IMHO it's pretty easy for Imm to check up on those.
For me, it dosn't matter whether you're married for one day or ten years. As a married man to a Thai lady, your rights should start on day one.
I'm off to the UK tomorrow for some family business. My wife has been there before. It took her 3 days to get her visitors visa. She could have come again this time, but it just wouldn't be convenient.
At the end of the day, she's my wife and I'm her husband. Why does this country discriminate against farang husbands?
Answer that - without resort to penniless etc - and I'll maybe listen to you.
Chok dii
You're right my mistake, re-read it and it says it does allow for the 400k in a Thai bank BUT ONLY for applicants who were previously granted an extension under the previous rules, ie: grandfathering.Wanderlust wrote:SJ,
Firstly, when the Family Income option was introduced they did away with the 400k in the bank option, only to reintroduce it when they did away with the Family Income option near the end of 2008.
No idea, sorry. I know it's widespread with Limited Companies owning land, accountant 'generates' activity to show company is trading and to keep tax man happy. Because personal income tax here is by self-assessment, rather than PAYE, it's simple to create an income, just download the form fill in your 'earnings' and post off a cheque, or similar.Secondly, thank you for highlighting the abusers' practices; I had no idea it was a widespread practice to fabricate Thai wives income by paying tax on non existent income - do you have any idea how widespread?
The real question is, I think Lomu and you touched on it, should a few bad apples be allowed to ruin it for others or should Immigration investigate and refuse the guilty ones. Trouble is the wife has genuine tax receipts from revenue department so the only real way to check is to visit EVERY applicant at their workplace!! "Oh sorry she's off sick today can you come back when she's better", springs to mind.
I'd guess they haven't the resources to do it, and is it fair on the people playing by the rules to have their fees increased to pay for this work. Can imagine Immigration top brass had a meeting about what to do and someone suggested "f*** all this extra work for dem damned foreigners, we should just scrap the thing", everyone else chorused together "great idea, now let's go for some lunch"
SJ
quote WL"so that genuine candidates were given some basic rights when they marry a Thai,"
I agree with almost all of that post but must ask you just how are you with this proposed system going to differentiate between what/who is genuine and what/who isnt ...does income come into it at all and how are you proposing to protect Thai employment and this country and its people
Whatever you propose it would have to meet the Thai requirements otherwise its just hallucinating
The only point i disagree with you is the get married get an automatic right to work that would have them coming of the dole in droves here
It does strike me that the only real crime to you would be genocide whereas to me breaking the Law full stop is a crime we have already agreed to disagree on punishments
I agree with almost all of that post but must ask you just how are you with this proposed system going to differentiate between what/who is genuine and what/who isnt ...does income come into it at all and how are you proposing to protect Thai employment and this country and its people
Whatever you propose it would have to meet the Thai requirements otherwise its just hallucinating
The only point i disagree with you is the get married get an automatic right to work that would have them coming of the dole in droves here
It does strike me that the only real crime to you would be genocide whereas to me breaking the Law full stop is a crime we have already agreed to disagree on punishments
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
sarge,
Just because I am proposing that there should be an automatic right to work doesn't mean that the majority would nor does it guarantee a job. What I envisage would happen is that more foreigners would start businesses in which they could work themselves legally without having to jump through expensive hoops (hoops which in my mind actually prevent the creation of more jobs here), employing Thai staff, being able to train them, pay tax and generally being a benefit to the country. While I understand the desire to protect the Thai people and prevent 'outsiders' taking their jobs, I actually believe the work permit and business set up conditions prevent many people starting businesses and thus no jobs created for anyone. It is extremely hard for small businesses that employ their farang investor to be set up by foreigners legally, and even harder for them to then actually make money because of the restrictions placed on them; 4 Thai employees being paid above the average wage required for every work permit required and a business value of 2 million baht (which according to some sources has just risen to 4 million baht which has to be shown in the bank). As it stands farangs that have started businesses here, such as bars, but don't work themselves, are constantly looking over their shoulders in case they are nabbed for nipping behind the bar to choose some music or get themselves a beer. There is something very wrong with that picture to me.
To answer your question about differentiating between genuine or not candidates, I think I already answered it in the same post - I said that a more thorough application and investigation should be done when the farang in question applies for his first extension based on being married, including police and health checks. The latter would be to ensure that you would not be a drain on the public health system if you had an existing condition, so you could have a choice between paying extra to cover that or showing/requiring sufficient health insurance. Anyone who is prepared to go through such a stringent test initially is more likely to be genuine anyway. It would probably scare off those who are the bad apples, or would force them down a route which would make them easier for immigration to spot or target. This of course still doesn't take into account the ever present spectre of corruption, which is actually I feel probably the way most bad apples get away with it rather than any clever attempts at bending the real regulations.
Just because I am proposing that there should be an automatic right to work doesn't mean that the majority would nor does it guarantee a job. What I envisage would happen is that more foreigners would start businesses in which they could work themselves legally without having to jump through expensive hoops (hoops which in my mind actually prevent the creation of more jobs here), employing Thai staff, being able to train them, pay tax and generally being a benefit to the country. While I understand the desire to protect the Thai people and prevent 'outsiders' taking their jobs, I actually believe the work permit and business set up conditions prevent many people starting businesses and thus no jobs created for anyone. It is extremely hard for small businesses that employ their farang investor to be set up by foreigners legally, and even harder for them to then actually make money because of the restrictions placed on them; 4 Thai employees being paid above the average wage required for every work permit required and a business value of 2 million baht (which according to some sources has just risen to 4 million baht which has to be shown in the bank). As it stands farangs that have started businesses here, such as bars, but don't work themselves, are constantly looking over their shoulders in case they are nabbed for nipping behind the bar to choose some music or get themselves a beer. There is something very wrong with that picture to me.
To answer your question about differentiating between genuine or not candidates, I think I already answered it in the same post - I said that a more thorough application and investigation should be done when the farang in question applies for his first extension based on being married, including police and health checks. The latter would be to ensure that you would not be a drain on the public health system if you had an existing condition, so you could have a choice between paying extra to cover that or showing/requiring sufficient health insurance. Anyone who is prepared to go through such a stringent test initially is more likely to be genuine anyway. It would probably scare off those who are the bad apples, or would force them down a route which would make them easier for immigration to spot or target. This of course still doesn't take into account the ever present spectre of corruption, which is actually I feel probably the way most bad apples get away with it rather than any clever attempts at bending the real regulations.
I was interested right up to the i
Quote "thus no jobs created for anyone."
silly me i did not realise every single job in this country was dependant on a farang
I am afraid i know of one farang working as a painter and decorator (ILLEGALLY and without a pot to piss in) on Thai wages how many more bricklayers electricians carpenters would come.after all its warm here and loads of beautiful women (and still claim benefits on my TAX)
Oh and just whose jobs are they NOT going to take
Because you dont and clevererly/polititionally avoided answering quote me "does income come into it at all"
I know and have in my family back in blighty one who would be here on the hour and have a wife 30 seconds later if he could and he is a fully qualified hairdresser
Thailand is desperate for hairdressers opticians and mobile phone salesmen give me a break
sorry WL but whatever you are smokin is self interested hallucinaton
The Thais are not that daft thank god
yes those that are genuine and honest and have proved it over a period of time should recieve some recognition
But that will only happen when the oracle workers conmen crooks and wasters are defeated
Quote "thus no jobs created for anyone."
silly me i did not realise every single job in this country was dependant on a farang
I am afraid i know of one farang working as a painter and decorator (ILLEGALLY and without a pot to piss in) on Thai wages how many more bricklayers electricians carpenters would come.after all its warm here and loads of beautiful women (and still claim benefits on my TAX)
Oh and just whose jobs are they NOT going to take
Because you dont and clevererly/polititionally avoided answering quote me "does income come into it at all"
I know and have in my family back in blighty one who would be here on the hour and have a wife 30 seconds later if he could and he is a fully qualified hairdresser
Thailand is desperate for hairdressers opticians and mobile phone salesmen give me a break
sorry WL but whatever you are smokin is self interested hallucinaton
The Thais are not that daft thank god
yes those that are genuine and honest and have proved it over a period of time should recieve some recognition
But that will only happen when the oracle workers conmen crooks and wasters are defeated
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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JimmyGreaves
- Legend
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- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:06 am
- Location: HuaEireHin
Sarge, I'm in my 10th year of marriage, I have two kids, both of which are well looked after and dearly loved. Our combined income stands at just over 40K per month, with a little over 30K of that coming from me. No I do not have a job in Thailand so I'm not taking away a Thai's job. In fact, even if I wanted to work, I wouldn't be able to because the wife works six day weeks and it is me who takes care of the kids (the hardest job I've ever had. Previously I had worked offshore but times change. My point is, I certainly don't see how or why I should be compared to a murderer simply because I'm a couple of hundred pounds short of the mark.sargeant wrote:as for his poor wife sorry but we put people in prison for breaking the law we dont let murderers walk because we feel sorry for the wife
Then again, sure, drag me away because of two or three thousand baht. The wife will still have to work so the kids can bugger off and play in the dirt up in Isaan somewhere. Sounds like family values really do mean a lot. In fact, it sound pretty much the same as some of the stories one reads about the "final solution"........men to one side, women to the other side, put the kids in that truck, etc, etc, etc.
As for taking Thai jobs, I can't see many farang working for Thai wages to be honest. I know you mention one working as a painter, but I can't see that happening very often. In any case, if the Thai "painters" can do just as good a job as he can, then they would have nothing to worry about. By the way, I think I know who this chap is.....I think it is the same guy who got pulled up by the MIB for helping his wife at tyhe market. Another good example of stupidity IMO. If you wife has a stall at the market, why shouldn't you be able to lend her a hand at times. After all, she is your wife. God forbid she gets knocked over in the road. You had better not dare try and help - Farang are not allowed to be paramedics.
As for earlier comments regarding men living off their wife's income....... the same can be said when it's the other way around. Sometimes I wonder how many Farang/Thai marriages would fall apart if all of a sudden Mr Farang wasn't able to finance their wives, provide cars, and etc. And, no I'm not just guessing because I'm seeing it happen with someone I know.
Let's face it, if you're loaded, your wife stands to loose a lot more if she steps out of line. On the other hand, if you don't have much, she's got nothing to loose. Perhaps when your wife needs to chip in is a good thing after all hey?
This post isn't directed at you sarge, I'm just pointing out that yes, some of us who have done nothing wrong do feel a bit shitty with the way we're treated.
Any typos....sorry, don't have time to check.
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact