Same shit, different day.STEVE G wrote:"He will consider returning to politics when the constitution is written up."
Thai coup leader admits little proof of Thaksin corruption
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Guess
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Having read the whole thread for the first time in its entirety has taught me one thing that had already been stated on this forum around the time of the coup and had been expressed by a relative, both of whom currently live in South America.
On this thread the statement has been totally justified by sargeant. The statement is:
"The mllitary has no place in politics"
Additionally after a converstaion with two of the posters on this thread last night I would like to ask the question to sargeant.
Why do you spell your name wrong or are you from a small township in Minnesota and had a problem with your shift key when registering.
If you were a sergeant in the army, did you by any chance report to Captain Sensible or were you at any time sent on a mission to liaise with Doctor Know?
On this thread the statement has been totally justified by sargeant. The statement is:
"The mllitary has no place in politics"
Additionally after a converstaion with two of the posters on this thread last night I would like to ask the question to sargeant.
Why do you spell your name wrong or are you from a small township in Minnesota and had a problem with your shift key when registering.
If you were a sergeant in the army, did you by any chance report to Captain Sensible or were you at any time sent on a mission to liaise with Doctor Know?
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
thai coup leader admits little proof of thaksin corruption
Yes i was a sergeant then a staff sergeant and then an acting S.S.M.
and no i didnt report to capt sensible he reported to me.Time in and experience still count in the army and always will.
We have already had a 2nd Lt debate so you already know where i stand on that can u tie your shoelaces yet
As for spelling finger trouble SO so so sorry big friggin deal and i will use your excuse for errors or r u the only person to be allowed to do so
I am more than happy to accept advice and admit i get it wrong and i do it publicly
so if the cap fits
Just to show you i can dish out sarcastic stupid statements waste of time isnt it
Normally i would agree with your statement in red but in this case to stop both factions in a blood bath may have been the exception to the rule
and no i didnt report to capt sensible he reported to me.Time in and experience still count in the army and always will.
We have already had a 2nd Lt debate so you already know where i stand on that can u tie your shoelaces yet
As for spelling finger trouble SO so so sorry big friggin deal and i will use your excuse for errors or r u the only person to be allowed to do so
I am more than happy to accept advice and admit i get it wrong and i do it publicly
so if the cap fits
Just to show you i can dish out sarcastic stupid statements waste of time isnt it
Normally i would agree with your statement in red but in this case to stop both factions in a blood bath may have been the exception to the rule
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
coup leader admits little proof of thaksin corruption
Buksi
Tme to come clean guvner
I printed of the diagram from your link,
2 have told me yes it happened here but all the others either dont remember or wont say so i have to swallow some crow you are right it seems it was thailand as a whole not as i implied only in places sorry
at the time i hadnt heard of it
Hope you will give me credit for coming clean and dont jump down my throat as i expect others will do
Tme to come clean guvner
I printed of the diagram from your link,
2 have told me yes it happened here but all the others either dont remember or wont say so i have to swallow some crow you are right it seems it was thailand as a whole not as i implied only in places sorry
at the time i hadnt heard of it
Hope you will give me credit for coming clean and dont jump down my throat as i expect others will do
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Just a little funny experience - just went off a Board where the military coup was discussed among some Thai's (in english).They did not had any recentments to the questionable ina political manner, nor any fears that it could have evolved into something lethal, they all saw it as "entertainment exstraordinare" and grat fun - dig that 
well, maybe it's a key to better understand thai ?
well, maybe it's a key to better understand thai ?
The charm of asia is more than the girlies !
BANGKOK (XFN-ASIA) - Deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is ready to stand trial and defend himself against any criminal charges, his lawyer said.
Coup leaders who ousted Thaksin on Sept 19 have justified the bloodless putsch by saying widespread corruption during Thaksin's five years in office had undermined democracy.
Noppadol Pattama said Thaksin, who left his self-imposed exile in London and flew to China last week, might consider returning to Thailand once martial law is lifted.
'Thaksin has the right to defend himself in the court. He has prepared and is ready for that, even though no direct accusation has yet to be made against him. The matters are just allegations,' Noppadol told Agence France-Presse.
The billionaire businessman's trip to Beijing last week came amid rumors that negotiations are underway to secure permission for his return to Thailand.
Local media reported that security has been stepped up along the Thailand-Laos border amid rumors that Thaksin may try and slip back into Thailand via the Golden Triangle.
However Noppadol dismissed such reports.
'He has no immediate plan or has even approached anyone here to come back to Thailand. He will consider returning when the situation has returned to normality,' Noppadol said.
'Once martial law is lifted, it is one indication that the situation here is back to normal. Then, the former premier is much more likely to return.'
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, who was installed following the coup, has said that martial law will be lifted as soon as security commanders are confident that no political movement against the new government remains.
But Thailand's junta said over the weekend that they have detected 'secret cells' aiming to destabilize the post-coup political situation in the north, where Thaksin enjoys wide support, and are closely monitoring their political activities.
Coup leaders who ousted Thaksin on Sept 19 have justified the bloodless putsch by saying widespread corruption during Thaksin's five years in office had undermined democracy.
Noppadol Pattama said Thaksin, who left his self-imposed exile in London and flew to China last week, might consider returning to Thailand once martial law is lifted.
'Thaksin has the right to defend himself in the court. He has prepared and is ready for that, even though no direct accusation has yet to be made against him. The matters are just allegations,' Noppadol told Agence France-Presse.
The billionaire businessman's trip to Beijing last week came amid rumors that negotiations are underway to secure permission for his return to Thailand.
Local media reported that security has been stepped up along the Thailand-Laos border amid rumors that Thaksin may try and slip back into Thailand via the Golden Triangle.
However Noppadol dismissed such reports.
'He has no immediate plan or has even approached anyone here to come back to Thailand. He will consider returning when the situation has returned to normality,' Noppadol said.
'Once martial law is lifted, it is one indication that the situation here is back to normal. Then, the former premier is much more likely to return.'
Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, who was installed following the coup, has said that martial law will be lifted as soon as security commanders are confident that no political movement against the new government remains.
But Thailand's junta said over the weekend that they have detected 'secret cells' aiming to destabilize the post-coup political situation in the north, where Thaksin enjoys wide support, and are closely monitoring their political activities.
The Nation (Bangkok)
Bringing the Thaksin regime to account
In the 'war on drugs' in Thailand in 2003, around 3,000 people died with no proper judicial accounting. The National Human Rights Commission has assembled convincing evidence that several victims had no involvement in drug trading. The mechanics of the campaign were lethally simple. Provincial governors and police chiefs were told to eliminate drug trading. Blacklists of names were compiled and success was measured against numerical targets.
It has been a bad few weeks for national leaders who might have their own people's blood on their hands. Saddam Hussein was condemned to death for atrocities at Dujail. President Arroyo of the Philippines was charged in an international court with human rights violations. The case against Arroyo, which details torture, abductions, 186 forced disappearances, and 778 killings was spearheaded by a senator and supported by relatives of several victims. The Permanent People's Tribunal in The Hague is a self-constituted court which has no power to enforce punishments, but considerable moral authority because it is run by eminent international jurists.
In 1998, Augusto Pinochet was arraigned in a Spanish court on charges relating to abductions, torture and executions during his 17 years as president of Chile. An arrest warrant was served while he was in a hospital in London. He was detained by the UK authorities but managed to resist extradition and was finally released on grounds of ill health. Although the case failed, it established a precedent that the judicial responsibility for atrocities is not obstructed by national boundaries.
In the "war on drugs" in Thailand in 2003, around 3,000 people died with no proper judicial accounting. The National Human Rights Commission has assembled convincing evidence that several victims had no involvement in drug trading. The mechanics of the government campaign were lethally simple. Provincial governors and police chiefs were told to eliminate drug trading. Blacklists of names were compiled and success was measured against numerical targets. Thaksin's speech launching the campaign on January 14, 2003 gave strong hints of what was expected:
"The drug sellers have been ruthless with the Thai people, with our children, so if we are ruthless with them, it is not a big deal. … If drug traders are listening they must make up their minds whether to stop selling or carry on. If they don't stop, there is a chance they will be dealt with in every way, both life and limb. … With the traders, you must use hammer and fist, that is, act decisively and without mercy. Police General Phao Sriyanon once said 'There is nothing under the sun that the Thai police cannot do.' So I'm confident that drugs are something that the Thai police can deal with. (Phao was famous for ordering political assassinations.) If some drug traders die, it will be a common thing."
Wan Muhammed Nor Matha, who was directly responsible for implementation as Interior minister, made sure the instructions were clear: "Tell them to stop selling drugs and leave the communities for good or they will be put behind bars or even 'vanish without a trace' ... Who cares?" He added: "I think human rights activists should not worry too much about these traffickers' lives."
Police chiefs in charge of implementing the policy at the local level were even more explicit. One called the campaign "a plan to shorten the lives of drug dealers.… A normal person lives for 80 years. But a bad person should not live that long". Another, who said he had been instructed to extract information from suspects and then kill them, asked, "Why should we spare the scum?"
Officials were threatened to make sure they complied. In his speech, Thaksin told the police: "You all know everything; it's just a question whether you will do anything or not. Today if you don't, I will do you." The Interior minister made this point more clearly: "In our war on drugs, the district chiefs are the knights, and provincial governors the commanders. If the knights see the enemy but do not shoot them, they can be beheaded by their commanders." In case anyone thought the term "beheading" was meant as a metaphor, the minister directed them to study King Naresuan, who stationed crack troops at the rear of an attacking army with orders to behead, impale and otherwise eliminate any soldier attempting to desert.
Incitement to murder is a straightforward criminal offence. Responsibility for torture and abduction is more complex.
In March 2004, Somchai Neelapaijit made public allegations against the police for torturing people to extract "confessions" of involvement in the Narathiwat armoury raid. According to Somchai, one victim was "blindfolded by police officers and physically assaulted; strangled and choked, hands tied behind his back and beaten with pieces of wood on the back and head … hanged from the toilet door with a piece of rope and … then electrocuted with a fork charged with electric currents". Given the high political profile of the Narathiwat raid, it is unlikely the local police were acting solely on their own authority.
Somchai was abducted one day after making this statement. There has always been a suspicion that this abduction was ordered at a very high level. Two weeks later, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, deputy prime minister, let slip in parliament that he knew Somchai was already dead. Thaksin set up a probe under the Department of Special Investigations, but this exercise seemed designed to prevent any revelation. A case was brought against five police officers, but the phone records which might have pointed to the chain of command were excluded from the evidence.
This is a critical moment for Thailand's judicial system. Under the Thaksin regime, judicial institutions were manipulated, intimidated and sabotaged. The King's summons to the judiciary to help solve the crisis promised a new beginning. But that summons has now been overshadowed by the coup, an explicitly lawless act. One regime that aspired to absolute power has been replaced by another with something approaching it. Judicial institutions may again become subordinate or irrelevant. Even worse, there are reasons to fear that a military regime will be reluctant to establish precedents for arraigning former leaders for violating human rights.
It will be a pity if the Thaksin regime has to be brought to judicial account outside, not inside, the country.
chang noi
Bringing the Thaksin regime to account
In the 'war on drugs' in Thailand in 2003, around 3,000 people died with no proper judicial accounting. The National Human Rights Commission has assembled convincing evidence that several victims had no involvement in drug trading. The mechanics of the campaign were lethally simple. Provincial governors and police chiefs were told to eliminate drug trading. Blacklists of names were compiled and success was measured against numerical targets.
It has been a bad few weeks for national leaders who might have their own people's blood on their hands. Saddam Hussein was condemned to death for atrocities at Dujail. President Arroyo of the Philippines was charged in an international court with human rights violations. The case against Arroyo, which details torture, abductions, 186 forced disappearances, and 778 killings was spearheaded by a senator and supported by relatives of several victims. The Permanent People's Tribunal in The Hague is a self-constituted court which has no power to enforce punishments, but considerable moral authority because it is run by eminent international jurists.
In 1998, Augusto Pinochet was arraigned in a Spanish court on charges relating to abductions, torture and executions during his 17 years as president of Chile. An arrest warrant was served while he was in a hospital in London. He was detained by the UK authorities but managed to resist extradition and was finally released on grounds of ill health. Although the case failed, it established a precedent that the judicial responsibility for atrocities is not obstructed by national boundaries.
In the "war on drugs" in Thailand in 2003, around 3,000 people died with no proper judicial accounting. The National Human Rights Commission has assembled convincing evidence that several victims had no involvement in drug trading. The mechanics of the government campaign were lethally simple. Provincial governors and police chiefs were told to eliminate drug trading. Blacklists of names were compiled and success was measured against numerical targets. Thaksin's speech launching the campaign on January 14, 2003 gave strong hints of what was expected:
"The drug sellers have been ruthless with the Thai people, with our children, so if we are ruthless with them, it is not a big deal. … If drug traders are listening they must make up their minds whether to stop selling or carry on. If they don't stop, there is a chance they will be dealt with in every way, both life and limb. … With the traders, you must use hammer and fist, that is, act decisively and without mercy. Police General Phao Sriyanon once said 'There is nothing under the sun that the Thai police cannot do.' So I'm confident that drugs are something that the Thai police can deal with. (Phao was famous for ordering political assassinations.) If some drug traders die, it will be a common thing."
Wan Muhammed Nor Matha, who was directly responsible for implementation as Interior minister, made sure the instructions were clear: "Tell them to stop selling drugs and leave the communities for good or they will be put behind bars or even 'vanish without a trace' ... Who cares?" He added: "I think human rights activists should not worry too much about these traffickers' lives."
Police chiefs in charge of implementing the policy at the local level were even more explicit. One called the campaign "a plan to shorten the lives of drug dealers.… A normal person lives for 80 years. But a bad person should not live that long". Another, who said he had been instructed to extract information from suspects and then kill them, asked, "Why should we spare the scum?"
Officials were threatened to make sure they complied. In his speech, Thaksin told the police: "You all know everything; it's just a question whether you will do anything or not. Today if you don't, I will do you." The Interior minister made this point more clearly: "In our war on drugs, the district chiefs are the knights, and provincial governors the commanders. If the knights see the enemy but do not shoot them, they can be beheaded by their commanders." In case anyone thought the term "beheading" was meant as a metaphor, the minister directed them to study King Naresuan, who stationed crack troops at the rear of an attacking army with orders to behead, impale and otherwise eliminate any soldier attempting to desert.
Incitement to murder is a straightforward criminal offence. Responsibility for torture and abduction is more complex.
In March 2004, Somchai Neelapaijit made public allegations against the police for torturing people to extract "confessions" of involvement in the Narathiwat armoury raid. According to Somchai, one victim was "blindfolded by police officers and physically assaulted; strangled and choked, hands tied behind his back and beaten with pieces of wood on the back and head … hanged from the toilet door with a piece of rope and … then electrocuted with a fork charged with electric currents". Given the high political profile of the Narathiwat raid, it is unlikely the local police were acting solely on their own authority.
Somchai was abducted one day after making this statement. There has always been a suspicion that this abduction was ordered at a very high level. Two weeks later, Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, deputy prime minister, let slip in parliament that he knew Somchai was already dead. Thaksin set up a probe under the Department of Special Investigations, but this exercise seemed designed to prevent any revelation. A case was brought against five police officers, but the phone records which might have pointed to the chain of command were excluded from the evidence.
This is a critical moment for Thailand's judicial system. Under the Thaksin regime, judicial institutions were manipulated, intimidated and sabotaged. The King's summons to the judiciary to help solve the crisis promised a new beginning. But that summons has now been overshadowed by the coup, an explicitly lawless act. One regime that aspired to absolute power has been replaced by another with something approaching it. Judicial institutions may again become subordinate or irrelevant. Even worse, there are reasons to fear that a military regime will be reluctant to establish precedents for arraigning former leaders for violating human rights.
It will be a pity if the Thaksin regime has to be brought to judicial account outside, not inside, the country.
chang noi
Coup In Thailand..
I have been reading the forums on this site for a few weeks. A group of us are preparing to come for a month long visit in January... does anyone feel/think that with, what sounds like government unrest, that tourists are in any danger of visiting?
Thanks...
Jodley
Thanks...
Jodley
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DawnHRD
- Legend
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- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:39 pm
- Location: Not always where I want to be
Unless you're planning to go to the far South, where there has been unrest, I would say there's nothing to worry about. We in HH have seen absolutely no change.
"The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?" - Jeremy Bentham, philosopher, 1748-1832
Make a dog's life better, today!
Make a dog's life better, today!
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Guess
- Deceased
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- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:01 pm
- Location: BangSaphan. Laurasia. Sub thumb
And even there you see nothing. It is a serious situation in the South but tourists are not targeted and violent activity is normally confined to singled out targets and authorities.DawnHHDRC wrote:Unless you're planning to go to the far South, where there has been unrest, I would say there's nothing to worry about. We in HH have seen absolutely no change.
I have traveled through all of the Southern provinces (Naratiwhat, Pattani and Yala) and seen nothing of concern.
Children on motorcycles and Jelly Fish pose a greater threat and you are certainly safer here than in any Western City that I know.
[color=blue][size=134]Care in the community success story.[/size][/color]
Bangkok, 29 Nov. (AKI) - Security is tight around the Thai Constitutional Court where proceedings may bring about the dissolution of two important political parties in Thailand - the Thai Rak Thai party of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and the Democrat Party, the major opposition party in Thailand and the oldest party in the country. According to media reports, the first hearing is set for Thursday and will be used to read out the charges.
Besides the two major parties, the smaller Pandin Thai Party, the Pattana Chart Thai Party and the Progressive Democracy Party will also feature in the case.
All the parties are accused of having manipulated the elections of 2 April and having lied during legal proceedings after the vote which was also annulled by the constitutional court.
The election was called for by Thaksin in an attempt to deal with the protests organised in urban areas accusing Thaksin of corruption and abuse of power.
The elections, which were boycotted by all of major opposition parties, led to a constitutional crisis in the country and a division between the urban population, and those living in the rural areas who generally supported Thaksin.
The tensions within Thai society was one of the main reasons cited by the head of the armed forces, General Sonthi Boonyaratkalin, for carrying out the military coup which ousted Thaksin from power on 19 September.
Besides the two major parties, the smaller Pandin Thai Party, the Pattana Chart Thai Party and the Progressive Democracy Party will also feature in the case.
All the parties are accused of having manipulated the elections of 2 April and having lied during legal proceedings after the vote which was also annulled by the constitutional court.
The election was called for by Thaksin in an attempt to deal with the protests organised in urban areas accusing Thaksin of corruption and abuse of power.
The elections, which were boycotted by all of major opposition parties, led to a constitutional crisis in the country and a division between the urban population, and those living in the rural areas who generally supported Thaksin.
The tensions within Thai society was one of the main reasons cited by the head of the armed forces, General Sonthi Boonyaratkalin, for carrying out the military coup which ousted Thaksin from power on 19 September.
GHW TIC
Very interesting my prediction
The smaller parties, The Pandin Thai party, the Pattana Chart Thai party, and the Progressive Democracy party will be dissolved and immediately reform as the Totally Irrelevant party
The democrat party will be dissolved and immediately reform as The if we cant buy it we will march and cause aggro until we win party.
The Thai Rak Thai Party will be dissolved and immediately reform as The Thai Rak Falang party 
Mr T now a completely changed and humbled man will ride to power again and immediately ban all visa regulations for Falangs 
He will also allow Falangs to buy anything they want work where they want and do business anyway they want
He will tax the rice farmers at 90% to provide social security for the falangs that cannot afford 135,00 baht a night at Koh Samet
The rice farmers will march with the if we cant buy it we will march and cause aggro until we win party demanding that their taxes be raised to 98% and demand the overthrow of Mr T again on the grounds that he hasnt respected the Falangs properly 
Mr Chang will abandon his plans for Disnyworld and build a huge complex and call it Bintaland
Bintabaht will remain for Falangs that dont want to travel to Bintaland
Very interesting my prediction
The smaller parties, The Pandin Thai party, the Pattana Chart Thai party, and the Progressive Democracy party will be dissolved and immediately reform as the Totally Irrelevant party
The democrat party will be dissolved and immediately reform as The if we cant buy it we will march and cause aggro until we win party.
The Thai Rak Thai Party will be dissolved and immediately reform as The Thai Rak Falang party
Mr T now a completely changed and humbled man will ride to power again and immediately ban all visa regulations for Falangs
He will also allow Falangs to buy anything they want work where they want and do business anyway they want
He will tax the rice farmers at 90% to provide social security for the falangs that cannot afford 135,00 baht a night at Koh Samet
The rice farmers will march with the if we cant buy it we will march and cause aggro until we win party demanding that their taxes be raised to 98% and demand the overthrow of Mr T again on the grounds that he hasnt respected the Falangs properly
Mr Chang will abandon his plans for Disnyworld and build a huge complex and call it Bintaland
Bintabaht will remain for Falangs that dont want to travel to Bintaland
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
