(Don't) Wear a Mask Debate

[hhinner]

I see many people wearing their masks so that they only cover the mouth. Perhaps that might be an acceptable compromise for those such as Mrs BB?

[HHTel]

I thought this cartoon was not just funny but made sense.

[sateeb]

Brilliant

Mask debaters

[nil]

Debate is no longer allowed.
Twitter has decided to lock the account belonging to Dr. Scott Atlas, the president’s top COVID-19 adviser. In a tweet posted Saturday morning, Dr. Atlas correctly noted that there is no particular evidence that masks work to stop the spread of COVID-19. In doing so, he cited longstanding literature on masks from the World Health Organization, the CDC, and Oxford University.

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/ ... es-dissent

Also, a large, randomised control trial to test the efficacy of masks was carried out in Denmark earlier this year – the only large RCT that’s ever been done on masks. So why haven’t the results been published yet?

[lindosfan1]

Nil Newcastle university when back a couple of weeks ago, the freshers had a party, noone wearing a mask. A week later
700 news cases. Please stop your drivel about masks they work.

[HHTel]

Well done, Lindo.
And as far as the Denmark study goes, the first one is expected to report results 'soon'. The second one and which is currently underway is expected to report in November.
The general consensus is that it's expected that the report will report positively regarding masks but by how much, we'll wait and see.

There have been numerous studies around the globe on different aspects, all with pretty much the same conclusion. Masks will limit the spread of Covid.

Incidentally, Denmark have recently increased mask recommendation to include anywhere where social distancing is difficult. Until now it was only required on public transport and stores.

[Big Boy]

I don't know about limiting the spread of Covid, it seems to be limiting the spread of everything. From June onwards we're into the coughs, cold and flu season. That barely seems to have happened this year.

[STEVE G]

On wearing masks:
"Those not doing so are not showing their independence-they are only showing their indifference for the lives of others..."
Sydney Morning Herald, January 1919.

[dtaai-maai]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... obal-en-GB

An interesting and balanced article on face masks.

Face masks: what the data say
The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?

A couple of quotes from the article that resonated with me:

There’s a lot more we would like to know,” says Vos, who contributed to the analysis. “But given that it is such a simple, low-cost intervention with potentially such a large impact, who would not want to use it?

As clinical researchers are sometimes fond of saying, parachutes have never been tested in a randomized controlled trial, either.

[HHTel]

I don't know about limiting the spread of Covid, it seems to be limiting the spread of everything. From June onwards we're into the coughs, cold and flu season. That barely seems to have happened this year.

This part of the world, where mitigation against Covid was taken seriously, 'flu is very much down:

He said there has been "near extinction of influenza in New Zealand following our very effective Covid-19 response", as numbers vanished from the two standard systems for surveillance - resulting in a 99.8 percent reduction in flu cases.

According to Baker, there were usually 1600 more deaths in winter, compared to other seasons, and around a third of those were caused by influenza, mostly in older people with long-term health conditions.

"What the Covid-19 response has done has largely eliminated those excess winter deaths and mortality as a whole is down around 5 percent," he said. "So that means an extra 1500 people will survive this year who wouldn't have."

[handdrummer]

In the years to come, face masks will be an accepted accessory, to be worn in gatherings of more than 2 people. Except in countries that rely on CCTV to identify their citizens. Perhaps, by then, the cameras will have been developed to see through the masks.

[nil]

January 2021. Facemasks in the COVID-19 era: A health hypothesis

Conclusion

The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks. Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia, shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression, fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression. Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration, developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention for public health.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

[hhinner]

Alternatively go to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=Facemask for a choice of over 6,000 articles.

[HHTel]

That article has been thoroughly examined. Another conclusion is 'Seeing is not necessarily believing'.

At first glance, the cited article looks to be quite legitimate. It is listed in PubMed Central, a free full-text archive of biomedical and life sciences journal literature at the U.S. National Institutes of Health's National Library of Medicine (NIH/NLM). This is a U.S. government website (as evidenced by the “.gov” in the URL). It was published in the medical journal Medical Hypotheses, which on the surface seems quite reasonable. The author lists his affiliation as Cardiology Division, Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System/Stanford University, which is seemingly a reputable organization that lends credibility to the article. It looks very much like other science journal articles you may have seen—there is an Abstract, an Introduction, mentions of the World Health Organization and other reputable scientific organizations, and a table that lists the potential health consequences of mask-wearing. Delving more deeply, you might notice that the article is littered with footnotes, listing 67 references!

This may include both incorrect and unsubstantiated claims. In this example, you can find both, including:

An assertion that the case fatality rate of COVID-19 is considerably less than 1%, which is backed up with a citation from March 26, 2020 (VERY early in the pandemic). While the true case fatality rate of COVID-19 is not definitely established, as of March 1, 2021, the lowest case fatality rate in the world (New Zealand) is 1.1% (ourworldindata.org).

An indirect suggestion that wearing a mask can cause hypoxemia (oxygen deficit) without citing any studies that show mask-induced hypoxemia. Through a series of alarming pieces of information about the dangers of hypoxemia, it creates an air of urgency that seeks to frighten the reader about mask-wearing (“It is well established that acute significant deficit in O2 [hypoxemia] and increased levels of CO2 [hypercapnia] even for a few minutes can be severely harmful and lethal, while chronic hypoxemia and hypercapnia cause health deterioration, exacerbation of existing conditions, morbidity and ultimately mortality.”) While the references that point out the dangers of hypoxia are valid, there are no references that provide evidence connecting mask-wearing to hypoxia.

The sources cited are not quoted nor are page number references provided. Reputable scientific papers cite sources and include page numbers for the citation and often provide directly-quoted material.

Incorrect spelling (“...400,000 people showed a 13% increased morality [sic] risk among people”) and grammar issues (“As described earlier, wearing facemasks causing [sic] hypoxic and hypercapnic state that constantly challenges the normal homeostasis…”). While this can be a result of an author whose primary language is not English, most journals have editorial staff that ensure correct spelling and grammar before publication.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.com/ ... -believing

Amgen Biotech Experience is a scientific education program. It's been around for around 30 years.
This particular 'lesson' is teaching students how to identify the facts and fiction in seemingly valid reports.

[handdrummer]

That article has been thoroughly examined. Another conclusion is 'Seeing is not necessarily believing'.

At first glance, the cited article looks to be quite legitimate. It is listed in PubMed Central, a free full-text archive of biomedical and life sciences journal literature at the U.S. National Institutes of Health's National Library of Medicine (NIH/NLM). This is a U.S. government website (as evidenced by the “.gov” in the URL). It was published in the medical journal Medical Hypotheses, which on the surface seems quite reasonable. The author lists his affiliation as Cardiology Division, Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System/Stanford University, which is seemingly a reputable organization that lends credibility to the article. It looks very much like other science journal articles you may have seen—there is an Abstract, an Introduction, mentions of the World Health Organization and other reputable scientific organizations, and a table that lists the potential health consequences of mask-wearing. Delving more deeply, you might notice that the article is littered with footnotes, listing 67 references!

This may include both incorrect and unsubstantiated claims. In this example, you can find both, including:

An assertion that the case fatality rate of COVID-19 is considerably less than 1%, which is backed up with a citation from March 26, 2020 (VERY early in the pandemic). While the true case fatality rate of COVID-19 is not definitely established, as of March 1, 2021, the lowest case fatality rate in the world (New Zealand) is 1.1% (ourworldindata.org).

An indirect suggestion that wearing a mask can cause hypoxemia (oxygen deficit) without citing any studies that show mask-induced hypoxemia. Through a series of alarming pieces of information about the dangers of hypoxemia, it creates an air of urgency that seeks to frighten the reader about mask-wearing (“It is well established that acute significant deficit in O2 [hypoxemia] and increased levels of CO2 [hypercapnia] even for a few minutes can be severely harmful and lethal, while chronic hypoxemia and hypercapnia cause health deterioration, exacerbation of existing conditions, morbidity and ultimately mortality.”) While the references that point out the dangers of hypoxia are valid, there are no references that provide evidence connecting mask-wearing to hypoxia.

The sources cited are not quoted nor are page number references provided. Reputable scientific papers cite sources and include page numbers for the citation and often provide directly-quoted material.

Incorrect spelling (“...400,000 people showed a 13% increased morality [sic] risk among people”) and grammar issues (“As described earlier, wearing facemasks causing [sic] hypoxic and hypercapnic state that constantly challenges the normal homeostasis…”). While this can be a result of an author whose primary language is not English, most journals have editorial staff that ensure correct spelling and grammar before publication.

https://www.amgenbiotechexperience.com/ ... -believing

Amgen Biotech Experience is a scientific education program. It's been around for around 30 years.
This particular 'lesson' is teaching students how to identify the facts and fiction in seemingly valid reports.

I can understand how wearing a face mask could increase "morality."