Butterfly Rock Bar

[Sweetarts]

Thank you very much to all of you who have taken the time and trouble to respond to my original posting on here. May I also apologize profusely for having posted a question as entertaining for armchair scribblers as watching paint dry. All of you must be so sick and tired of answering 'do you think its a good idea to open a bar' threads. There comes a point in time, when yet another guy tottering on a 14th floor window ledge seeking a twelfth hour rescue, that even decent samaritans must think "oh for heaven's sake do us all a favour and jump."

I have been in contact several times with the agent whose job it is to try and sell this place and have not learnt a fraction of what I have from talking to you guys. Once again I would really like to thank all of you for trying to save yet another moron from throwing his money down the drain.

Since having been fortunate enough to have a small amount of capital fall into my lap I have been actively searching for a business establishment in Thailand now for well over 12 months. During which time I have seen my capital dwindle to a dangerously low level.

I always thought getting the investment was the most difficult part in a life when clearly for so many people salaries seem to be designed to keep you entrapped providing just enough pieces of eight to get you through the following month with barely little or more often nothing to provide for any real saving. Too busy earning a living to make any money has certainly been the flagship of my life. This past year has been a great learning experience for me. I have now realised how quickly the winds of fortune can turn in your favour and the real endeavour possibly is not accumulating capital but rather deciding in what direction to invest such minimal funds. The entire experience of seeking a business in Thailand has been nothing short of a living nightmare. From the treacherous business agents who appear to do precious little other than make a difficult experience even more frustrating along with spending what seems to be their entire day doing nothing other than posting cheese ridden advertisements on any Free website that will accommodate them. I have had numerous run ins with these total morons who have not only attempted to send me on blind dates from Bangkok to Nakhon Nowhere thinking that there really is a realistic chance that I might just embark upon anything up to 24 hour round trip journeys without even having seen a photograph of the establishment up for grabs. To one of the leading business agents who quite clearly states on the home page of their plush website that finding a viable business for sale that actually makes any money in Thailand is reminiscent of seeking a needle in a haystack, or in their own words "Finding a good business for sale in Thailand is very rare" who then astonishingly go on to sing the praises and merits of over 300 concerns they have listed for sale with such utter tripe as 'goldmine' 'stunning location' 'can't lose' 'don't miss this one' 'early viewing highly recommended' 'this won't stay on the market for long' My dear god, it appears to me that the entrance requirement for a potential business agent is that you can prove yourself to be a total intellectual imbecile.

During my long search, really considering any type of business that would afford me a very modest lifestyle in return for an honest days work, not just bars, I have become sick to the teeth of what are nothing more than glorified town houses transformed into shophouses with pool tables stuffed into them attempting to claim that they are bars. The sheer volume of business owners who have bought into these places and within 12 months or less have discovered that they must urgently return to their homelands and so 'Business For Sale' must rank truly as a phenomenon of our time. You would have had to sit in my shoes over the past year to appreciate the literally thousands of people who go into business in Thailand only to find that within months they are uncannily forced to return to their native abodes. The whole situation is nothing short of pathetic. I have always thought that if you cannot lie without insulting the intelligence of the average individual then maybe the truth is a better option. I visited a so called bar in Pattaya up for sale that could actually boast of only having 3 yes that is three bottles of spirits perched on the T.V. hence 'Bar For Sale'. Dear me, dear oh deary me. Fast forward to me bumping into The Butterfly Rock bar. Much to my surprise having stumbled across a business agent who is actually prepared to show pictures of what they are trying to sell instead of acting like paranoid little rabbits with their confidentiality papers, strange I thought, this place actually looks like a bar. This is one of the painfully few places I have seen available within my price range. So many other places have vanished from mind the moment you enlarge the first photograph. The Butterfly Rock bar has remained in my thinking since the first time I saw it and evidently will not go away. Quite a few of you here seem to concur that, putting aside its dubious location for one moment, the bar itself might actually be a venue where you do not think that you need to get out of this place halfway through your first beer or sooner. From what I have seen of it in the few pictures that are available it appears that it has the potential for punters to stay for a second beer or dare I say it even longer. It has struck me then that putting aside the poor location once more the actual structure itself seems to hold potential.

I wonder if I might put it to those in the know here that have been most gracious to pass on their musings on this pretty dead subject if a fairly high percentage of the shock return home types have not dug their own grave. Could I put it to you that so many people come here, are entirely dazed at young Thai cuties and their bodies gorgeous enough to die for, only too willing to combine and join as one within the embrace of lust in return for shirt buttons, the type of stunning female that so many who come here couldn't hope to attract in their countries, even if they had the money to pay her toll, is it not the case that at some point during their tours to dump their semen across the other side of the world that the thought enters the murky grey matter Geee !!! This place is heaven. Enter the thought of living and working in Thailand for one essential reason. Girlies !! So what does member permanently enlarged do ? Well how about opening a bar ? And away we go, so lets find any old hole in the wall that we can find. Ram a pool table in there, stock up on tarts, a cooler, Heineken beer, I'm set ! Away we go. The money rolls in and I get to fornicate my way to paradise. I have lived and worked in Thailand for 18 years without a single return to the U.K. in that time it has been my displeasure to have found myself more often than not in bars that seem to lack any form of imagination whatsoever, the standard pool table is there and in some cases the dart board and a rack of long past their sell by date females who frequently seem to lack even the most basic of training in how to apply their artistry over and above, "drink for me ?" Do keep in mind I am relating to the watering holes at the lower end of the scale. There are in fact no shortage of very nice, well managed bars scattered throughout Thailand where a pleasant evening viewing the talent can easily be had. I don't know maybe I'm being cruel or maybe I lack the experience. But I can't help but feel that a very high percentage of failures were destined to be from day 1 in many cases due to a complete lack of imagination. I think one of the reasons we might contemplate a night at the bar is not only to get our tonsils and other parts of our anatomy wet but also to seek either some form of entertainment or possibly some stimulating banter, so many of the 'my mother's desperately ill' return home types 'Bar For Sale' seem to lack any notion of how to set themselves aside from each and every other bar, again within the lower price range. My eyes nearly popped clean out of my head having read =+=crazy88's=+= contribution to all of this with his recommendations towards introducing a little bit good old fashioned fun into the bottled beer and dolly mix. Low and behold I feel exactly the same way as you do =+=crazy88=+= where is the fun in so many lower end of the market bars that you enter in Thailand. It's simply non existant. It's just look theres a pool table, beer and all too often sour faced not so lovely lovelies on tap and if none of that makes your night then the T.V is to the left of you. I just wonder if not too many of the lower range bars are not entire xerox copies of each other. I don't know, but I can't help but feel one of the varied elements required to make a bar work in Thailand would have our punter at home thinking well what am I going to do tonight ? well why not pop down to The Butterfly Rock Bar and see what's going on there tonight. The optimum here being that The Butterfly Rock Bar has shown a tendency to actually have things going on. Can I put it to the panel then a little inventiveness, creativity not to mention a morsel of imagination all wrapped up with incentives not only for slurpers to order another beer, but also carrots on sticks for what is in many cases the main course that being those golden little honey pots attired in outfits skimpier than skimpy being offered just a little more incentive than merely a lousy cut in a ridiculous glass of flat cola, The Ladies Drink. If I'm buying my nectar at a certain price and passing it on at the going rate in that soi whatever it is, if a cutie manages to keep a guy sitting with her reordering beers likely because she might suffer from roving hands and is actually quite pleasant to sit and talk to throwing in the occassional thimble sized cola for herself, then wouldn't it be refreshing if the farang side of the bar ownership didn't drop a few baht extra to her in view of the fact that realistically she
has just sold however many beers our example has downed. A roving eye perhaps, while the girlfriend or wife slogs behind the bar as opposed to just getting slaughtered in your own bar. This can go on forever, there simply are no limits I feel to how you can make a place buzz so long as a fairly reasonable existing structure is in place, i.e. bricks and mortar i.e. a place large enough to sit for a few beers without suffering a clausterphobia attack enter The Butterfly Rock Bar which obviously is not going to be anything too much to rant and rave about, not at this price, but does at lease as far as I can see at the moment seem to get itself out of the town house complete with pool table syndrome and seemingly begin to approach what I call a real bar. Naturally my ranting here about fun is only one of the golden threads required to keep your head above water which will likely be only just.

The marketing of many lower end bars also seems to open avenues for debate other than the normal pictures of girls in some stage of undress once again from what I have seen a severe lack of imagination. Which brings me back to Theodore Throbbing remember him he purchased a bar under the illusion that he could pierce these golden little beauties for the forseeable future by squeezing a pool table into a hole in the wall. Not to say that everything small is bad and everything large is good. I don't believe that. But I do think that if there is barely space to feel that you and your little jelly tot have your own space then it's going to work against you attempting to keep anyone in your bar for more than one drink. A certain measure of comfort must enter into the equation at some stage. Exit exactly 7 months after takeover one Theodore, that is if he's managed to flog his pool table.

I would say and I don't think I would be too far wrong that approximately 60 pct to 70 pct of the total bars in Pattaya can be found up for sale at this moment in time many listed in droves and droves on the cheese manufacturing websites as well as the independants attempting to sell their own bars. 'No Brokers Please'. Yes I'm aware at last count there were estimated to be over 1,200 bars in Pattaya. The sheer volume of bars for sale is staggering if you do all of the rounds of the Camembert outlets.

Let me say it before you do, My god does this guy ever shut up. There's still a lot more I'd like to say about all the different ideas that could at least be tried in order to try and freshen up what is all too often a boring experience, the Thailand bar experience. It works the same for go go bars too, within quite a short space of time of my tenure in Thailand I wouldn't go near a go go bar it used to bore the pants off me something that the overall vast majority of the females were unable to achieve, pants off that is. Fortunately I chose a young Thai female to marry with a sad education a lazy little girl that doesn't like doing housework but has a body that can only be described as a weapon of mass destruction. Fortunately she doesn't seem to appreciate how stunning she looks with her clothes off. So I largely gave up on the bar scene pool table and all. I get into bed each night with my own dart board. Albeit I live in an untidy house. But you cannot have it all ways, certainly not in Thailand. Most seem to marry for a keeper, forced out to the bars to seek heat supplements. I've learnt to keep myself and married what can only be described as a sex toy. But if the truth were known she's a gem of a Thai girl plucked out of the bar scene at the ripe age of only 30 days service and completely uncorrupted by an agonizing process that seems to destroy all too many what presumably once were quite nice Thai girls. I love her dearly not only for her nuclear body, but she's proven herself to be ridiculously loyal through many barren years as an English Teacher in Bangkok I suppose I'm getting payback now in misery looking for a business for the extreme good fortune I had bumping into her when so many have suffered at the hands of bar girls.

Dear me I feel like I could go on forever, I think I had better cancel the free beer offer should I decide to buy this place for fear of a posse of you enter the bar to throttle me for what is a really windy piece here.


But before a bid good morning to what is likely only a few of you that have decided to wade through this quagmire of a posting I simply have to answer at least some of you who have been kind enough to try and beat some sense into me.


=+= Randy Cornhole =+= Your first point taken about thinking long and hard, I've been doing that over the past year, my conclusion of much head scratching is invest in a Seven Eleven and don't go anywhere near any bar. As for pots of money, I don't have that. Thank you.

=+= Johnnyk =+= I like your sentiment if you could fill your bar with enough girls worth boffing for free, you might at the end of the day, Returning home family illness, actually break even. But having been entirely spoilt by my little nubile tighty of a Thai wife, no children, I'm afraid the playing field is severely restricted certainly from what I see that is available for rental. But thanks for a glimmer of hope in an otherwise pretty gloomy epitaph.

=+= crazy88 =+= Super contribution, two free beers for you, I entirely agree with everything you had to say. Thanks a lot.



=+= Pagey =+= As is in life, the answer to the problem frequently can be found perched on the tip of your nose. Your point is direct and straight at the jugular, Thanks.

=+= sandman67 =+= You raised an interesting point about a guesthouse doubling your overheads. You've got me scratching my head now as prior to reading your post I would have thought that getting a customer, once through your door, to purchase as much of your service as you can would benefit. I'm trying to work your comment out, I would of thought that selling a room to someone and possibly food as well as a few beers if your lucky would be better than selling just beer. But your angle might be the extra staff involved and can you actually get people into your rooms. The amount of bars I have seen up for sale in the past 15 or 16 months does tell me something it scares the living daylights out of me. The well established bars you talk of running on tickover only adds more to the gloom, makes me wonder if I should head directly back to Bangkok. One observation I have made is that there are infinitely fewer bars available in Bangkok then there are in Pattaya, Hua Hin, Samui, Phuket.I dearly wish I had the resources to turn this into a hobby, sad truth is, I don't. This would be my only source of income. Although, I do not lead that much of an exorbitant lifestyle. I'm blessed once again with my cruise missile of a wife who, and I know you're not going to believe this, has enormous respect for money and how difficult it is to come by. Far from the sick water buffalo bar girl gag, if you think the sentence above is unlikely herald this. Her impoverished rice farming parents have actually over the years donated 50 kilo bags of rice to us. I've never actually contributed Anything to the family as remarkable as that may sound, I've never been in a position to do so. Part of the hazards of the tar brush process I suppose, my experience has been entirely opposite to many unfortunate souls. But there you go find a girl that's only worked in bar for 30 days and you may just well find the nice human being that I did, not that long term bar girls are necessarily all bad, remember the tar brush.

Point taken about catering towards those resident in Thailand as opposed to those arriving with a bumper pack of Durex, I think I actually prefer those of us that have made a bit of a go of Thailand. Don't get me wrong there's nothing I like more than banging Thai females, I don't know I just have more respect for those who contribute something back into Thailand rather than just using the place as a body fluid dumping ground before flying home. But that's just me and I am well equipped at keeping my thoughts to myself when it matters. Thanks a lot for your alternative angles.


Oh dear =+= MURF =+= well it was bound to happen, meeting the owner of a bar and getting the truth from source. If I am absurd enough to proceed with this seemingly hopeless endeavour you wouldn't take me under your wing would you ? Afterall you say you've been at this for 10 years now something tells me that you know something that most others don't. What happened to your critically sick member of family that should have forced you to return home at the 12 month or less stage. Is there any possibility that we could strike up a friendship with our bars co operating with each other. During these bleak times the very last thing a bar needs is a rival. I think its impossible for bars say in Pattaya to co operate by sheer volume alone. But in Hua Hin I understand there are approximately 50 bars, do you think I am extraordinarily naive in thinking that a few decent bar owners get together to assist each other. The pool and dart leagues you run together have obviously been a success this is down to inter bar cooperation could this concept be explored in more depth ? Might be a dumb idea but for example I have never entered a bar where an alternative bar is being advertised or promoted. It's seemingly unheard of. I know it sounds obscene but if the other bar is doing the same thing for you who knows, could there be benefits for both bars or a small collection of like minded bars. There must come a point even in the lives of the most loyal regulars of regulars when that person decides to try a night out at a different venue, I then wonder if he might try the alternative bar that he's seen promoted in his own regular watering hole. It's probably a barmy idea that will be shot down by someone on here with a lot more experience than myself but at least I can vouch that I am attempting to find ideas as opposed to just sitting around looking at my empty bar, I know what I'll do I'll drown my sorrows with another beer. Seems to me all bar owners need friends, there are enough natural hostile forces out there at this time without declaring war on the bar down the road from you, don't be afraid to tell me I'm being naive if you think I am. I realise it's impossible for all 50 bars to get together but 6 or 7 getting together to bounce ideas around. Sounds bleak though, thanks for your time and direct advice.


=+=bluezephyr=+= Gloom, but I think as others have pointed out at this moment in time it might be possible to say that state of the art sound systems and shimmering lights, decor too, are not going to be sufficient to cut it. It's kind of nice when you walk in but I think the effect is enormously short lived. If there's nothing in particular going on in the bar, it's just another bar then the expensive wallpaper becomes exactly that, nothing more, just expensive wallpaper especially if you've got dour looking unfriendly females clumped all together in a corner. It's kind of a fabricated effect, if the experience inside of the bar is no different from another bar with the wallpaper peeling off. You know when I first got here about too many years ago that I want to recall, one of the never ending bars that I have visited, that still to this day remains fresh in my memory was one of the go go bars almost in the far right hand corner of Nana Plaza complex. Please don't ask me what the name of the bar was. I don't have a clue. What I do remember is that this bar had the kind of theme that =+=crazy88=+= introduced to this thread. This bar had a large spinning wheel. Drinks for the final five minutes of every hour were sold at a knockdown price. There was a raffle with the winner taking home a free girlie to line his bed with. This bar has remained fresh in my mind all of these years as one of the few bars that ever seemed to be giving something different a try. I actually only went in there a few times mainly because of the huge crowds that were in there. Now I know that these were yonder days prior, when things were much better all round in Thailand, but dear me you could forget about ever getting a seat in this place. Impossible unless you were there at about 6pm. It was a real task to find anywhere to stand. The bar was larger than most in Nana Plaza it was choc a bloc wall to wall the only places to stand were in the walking corridors shall I call them two large stages of girls cram packed they didn't have room to dance only wiggle their golden bums a little. The experience was actually uncomfortable, as you were continually side stepping out of the way of waitresses flying up the isles with a never ending stream of drinks. It was exactly that a very uncomfortable experience, you almost couldn't stand still for a moment or you would end up with somebody's drink all over you. I really do wonder about =+=crazy88=+= theme of fun, games, promotions it's something I've always held dear that if I did ever get myself into a position to own a bar there would simply be no limit to the array of different things I would try. It's an alternative to getting plastered behind your own bar. Set your mind to task as to what elements of fun and promotions could be introduced. Live music is a regular attempt at trying something with varying levels of success, but there is no end to ideas if you have a little creativity. I'm not saying it's an automatic key to success, but on the other hand I think there's too little of an experience in too many bars. Ruffle the feathers up a bit, think again about that punter at home who doesn't know where he wants to go to, he's been here long enough he's been to all the bars twice, he's pretty undecided who will get his custom tonight, I don't know you just might get a nose in front of the pack if he thinks well let's take a stroll down to X bar and see what's happening there tonight, if you can keep on introducing new ideas and promotions. Of course you are going to lose a few people the 'I like everything exactly the same as when I ventured here last 7 months ago' but you know there's a lot of truth in you can't please all of the people all of the time, there'll be casualties for sure. Take a lead from Songkran there's a lot of visitors out there of all ages shooting water at each other in certain spots up and down the Kingdom, how much more silly does it get ? than throwing water at each other. Begins to ring a bell back to =+=crazy88=+= with what he was saying with his pram races. It's worth a try. One thing that is not going to work is sitting around and moping about empty nights. If people are not walking through your doors you're onto a loser if you sit back and do nothing, you've got to try something. I'm the type of person who if you knock me down, I'll just get right back up again, I don't care how many times you beat me to the ground. I'm getting right back up again.They'd have to put me in a box and nail down the lid before removing me from The Butterfly Rock Bar quitting or sitting around and doing nothing is entirely abhorent to me. Now it's bad out there, we have universally accepted that across the board here, but you know, looking around the abyss bars in Pattaya I don't see too many people trying anything. Everybody seems to be content with business as usual while they howl how bad it is. One guy I see out from town a bit is attempting to cut down the 50 baht draught beer by offering his at 45 baht, but I wonder again about the levels of imagination being utilized, it doesn't seem to be out there. Brings you right back to digging your own grave. Maybe too many are too busy getting sloshed or rotating the girls for free pumping sessions. I think those that will fight will survive this and come out the other end. A lot are going to fail though. Seems to me from here on in things can only get worse for a while. Thanks.


=+=maithai=+= Staff you can trust, that's the one. The long hours are a worry, I enjoy a very special relationship with not only dogs and cats that I keep, I'll pop out for five minutes to buy some sugar and upon my return they bring the neighbourhood down with wild excessive levels of barking to greet me, reminiscent of not having seen me for a week. I haven't worked this part of the equation out yet. As for me I'm a workaholic by nature, obsessive, should I fall into this impending catastrophe I won't be able to switch off, I'll eat, drink and sleep how to get people in through those doors but it will only work if the establishment vaguely resembles a bar, you're just too restricted with one of hole in the wall bars. I enjoy hard work, trouble is I like to get rewarded well for hard work, I realise that's not going to happen, not now, maybe not ever in Thailand. I think to a certain extent my eyes are wide open. I made the decision a long time ago that in order to get good reward for hard work without technical skills which I do not possess you have to go it alone or in a well knit small partnership working together as friends. But a lot of truth in what you say. Trust it has to be one of the most invaluable commodities in 2008, can't put a price on it. Thanks.


=+=super joe=+= Thank you, Thank you, Thank you and Thank you again. Critical oversight on my behalf. Astronomical key money. My experience sorely lacking here that I didn't follow this line of enquiry myself. I sped a quick email to the agent asking some solid questions about this. No mention of key money didn't think any further. Thank you so much =+=super joe=+= your posting alone caused me to postpone my trip to Hua Hin which was scheduled for the 16th to view the bar, I'm not going to even contemplate that journey until I have some good answers to some probing questions about the lease and any renewal, I don't even know when the current lease expires, I've also asked for details of what the key money will be or at least what was paid commencing the prior lease. Can't thank you enough =+=super joe=+= three free beers if you would care to pop over so that I can thank you in person, should I be barmy enough to pursue with this nonsense. Thanks so much.


=+=randy cornhole=+= Thanks for the second comment, I was amazed to learn of the Everton link. I also enquired after another bar that was being advertised in the same soi and received an answer similar to your theme. The owner claimed that soi Binterbart is going to the dogs and that many people are switching over to soi Hot Pot. Well of course he would say that wouldn't he ? 'This thus far is not the case and probably wont ever be.' More than interesting. 'I therefore can't see this bar ever making any real money.' Worrying, very worrying. Thanks.


=+=super joe=+= Thanks for re visiting this rather dull thread and your second comment. A compliment for the current lessee. That evens the score 1-1 I guess, Somebody stated on this forum that in all the times he had visited The Butterfly Rock Bar he had never once seen the current lessee sober. Now I like a drink, but I'm not sure this is any way to run a bar. I want to be in and amongst you guys if you were to pop over, but I want to be listening to what you have to say, improvements, maybe girls that are pissing you off, anything good or bad. I'm not sure I want to be plastered up every night. It seems if I have taken leave of my senses I'll be walking straight into the valley of death. No I'll have the odd drink but I will need my wits about me. I do not have any experience with running a bar, so I am going to be against the devil and the dark blue sea at the same time. I'll need all the few brain cells that I have if I am going to muster a fight to even make it to a tickover level. I would certainly welcome any further information about the guy running this bar at the moment. Be that good or bad.

'I used to drink their regularly and many customers came in saying wow nice and cool air-conned in here, loved the 4 flat screens with 4 separate boxes so could watch pick of four different matches, then when bill came had kittens that their Chang was 5 Baht dearer than a bar down the road with no facilities. Beyond my comprehension.'

Truly astonishing =+=super joe=+= maybe another weak link in my business ability, but from how you have described this, I quite frankly wouldn't want this guy in my bar. What on earth is he doing across the other side of the world slopping it up how many nights a week ? girls ? if he's this cantankerous over 5 baht. My question begs an answer. I appreciate a lot of people are retirees on minimal pensions in Hua Hin, but exactly who does he think pays for the airconditioning that he likely enjoys sitting in.
'Beyond my comprehension' =+=super joe=+= I would say beyond anybody's comprehension. If you were to take him to task by asking him about who foots the bill for the facilities that this bars offers that maybe some others don't have, he would likely just retort well turn the air off then. I think these are people who are best left alone in the corner of the bar with one final mouthful of stale beer decomposing at the bottom of his glass and forgotten about. I am the type of person who will bend over backwards and forwards to try and please people, I've had to do that for many years now so it is nothing new, but there comes a time when you simply have to draw a line in the sand. In Pattaya I was talking to the owner of a pie shop. He told me one day a guy entered his shop almost demanding an explanation as to why this shop was charging 5 baht more for a steak and kidney pie than a similar shop around the corner. I find this incredulous. It's your business at the end of the day if you want to charge 150 baht for a small bottle of beer Chang or give the stuff away for free, it's up to you, it's your joint. What the hell is he doing sitting in The Butterfly Rock Bar drinking beer Chang overpriced to his mind by 5 baht, why is he even in there ? Why is he not sitting the sauna bar getting his beer Chang at the economy price ?
likely too much of the peeling wallpaper has dropped off and into his drink. Truly astonishing. You know there's people out there who make a hobby of picking a quarrel or a fight. Teenagers do it and it seems to return to many people as we approach our twilight years. I pray to god I never get like this. Likely his life's a misery so his task now is to make everybody's life a misery. With this type of guy, I wait until he finishes his drink give him all of his money back not just the 5 baht the whole price for the beer and ask him politely not to come back again. He's not welcome. I could be a bit short here, I do have lots of patience. This is just bullshit. Lot of it about though. The pie man stated that Pattaya is full of cheap charlies. Yep, knew that before I came to Pattaya. Dear me, you know sometimes your heart has to go out to the girls, can you imagine dealing with this guy ? If he's like this over a bottle of beer. Dear me, poor girls, He's going to upset the staff, he's going to upset the girls, he's out to piss people off. You're better off without him. There's a lot of these people out here. Thailand unfortunately attracts a lot of garbage, not difficult to see why sex for peanuts, take a look at the going rates back home, you can virtually base an entire Thailand holiday on a couple of overnight stays with some western girls. I've seen the same story yet again on some sites that accomodate professional girls in their advertisements. From what damp stone do these people crawl out from ? That's what I want to know. Guys that will try and have a girl removed from the website because she's charging more money for a deep session with her and her favours over what this anorak believes is the going rate. Dear me, desperate sorts. It's no different, if the girl wants to turn her body into a thriving business then I say good for her. So many people knock these girls down and relate to them as trash and then at the bat of an eyelid the same guys are crawling around every bar or street attempting to attract one of these girls. What's wrong with these people ? Why are they at war with what they desire so much. I think its jealousy. If a girl wants to put her sex on the open market then I say good girl, I know what I'd be doing if I had been born female, Geee I'd be a dirty Bitch and proud of it. Laughing all the way to the bank. Having sex and getting paid for it. Hahahaha !!! if you advertised for guys to have sex and get paid for it, heavens above, we'd all meet up in the queue. It just amazes me that anyone could be so unintelligent as to reckon that because he and others don't have any money that every female has to set her rates for sex at the same price that suits his pocket. Yeah explain that to David Beckham and the left back at Scunthorpe. Thailand would be a better place if these people shipped themselves out to Calcutta or somewhere. I have spent most of my life having to be extremely careful with money there's a guy up the road from me opened himself a Seven Ten shop, astonishing, walk in there's nothing in there except for noodles and water. Couldn't be more different from the average Seven Eleven if he tried. Asking 30 baht for a bottle of Coke regular price at Seven just two minutes down the road 27 baht. Go to Lotus you can get a bottle 50 pct larger for 22 baht. I paid him his 30 baht but I wouldn't go back end of story you don't start fights over 5 baht or try to get girls lifted from websites because it doesn't fit in with the rock bottom 300 baht he thinks every female in Thailand should charge. This is a side to Thailand I don't like.

'Most drinkers in that road, are aged between 75 and 125 and prefer the cheaper bars from what I've witnessed. Upto them ofcourse, their perogative.'

It's exactly their choice but you don't start trouble over something so trifling you just make a note to to return next time.

This is just pathetic. The age worries me a little, thanks for that info. We all seem to get stuck in our ways and stubborn on or around about our 110th birthday, I hope I can keep this at bay for as long as I can. Nobody likes a misery guts. Not to mention how much a beer would cost him in his own country dear me, this is sad. Thanks for your time and insights =+= super joe=+= maybe I should start thinking about converting The Butterfly Rock Bar into an old folks home.





=+=HHADFUN=+=


'I hate to pile on,'


You're not piling it on, this is what I'm here for, some of you guys have been there and done it, I haven't. I need it from you guys undiluted and straight. That's what I'm getting from you guys and I'm eternally grateful for all of you spending good time on an issue that only I can benefit from. But if I ever see any of you I will surely show my appreciation for your time and effort. None of you are drawing anything out of this. The bar theme is washed up and should have been buried and forgotten about a long time ago.


'but have to agree with the generally negative tone.'



Yep it's negative all round, one thing many of you seem to think it's not a bad bar to actually sit in if there were a few more faces in there. Makes me wonder. At this price level you're not going to get much, crazies are asking as much for holes in the wall. This bar is difficult to budge from my reckoning because it seems to do quite well for it's facilities. That's something. Of course everything is about location you can have a rat hole in a good place and do fairly well. Seemingly quite a nice bar like this in a bad location and you're out in the cold. Well it's not an entirely impossible equation I guess you got to be able to provide something that maybe the other bars are not in order to give people the incentive to travel a little more out of the way. I suppose it's down to ideas and creativity again.


'I used to live in Soi 80 and went to Butterfly Rock on the nights when the Stone Head Band, now at El Murphy's, was playing. Five customers was a big crowd, and more than one night, I was the only customer.'


Dear me, this is sad.


'Around January 2008, the original owner replaced all staff and I thought the place might turn around, but it didn't.'


This is very interesting he just clean sweeped them out I wonder if this was done with the blessing of the current lessee, I suppose it must have been, but I wonder why he didn't do it himself and why the original owner had to do this. Makes me wonder a bit.


'There has been a persistent rumour that eventually the Bintabaht/Selakam bars will close down and Soi 80 and Soi 88 will replace them, but take that with a HUGE grain of salt. I've heard it for a year and a half, but don't believe it. They're going to put in a Disneyland here, too...'



Yeah, pigs can fly nah ?


'All that said, I am willing to share my worthless opinions for free beer at any time.'


Good lad I'll have it waiting for you on ice, the bottle will have your name on it !!


=+=MURF=+=


Thanks for returning to the thread for a second comment.


'For the last year or so they have been giving 2 beers 4, 1 daytime profit 5 bath'


Whoooo !!!

Dear Me, it doesn't get any better does it. The older this thread becomes the more dire the situation. At this rate we'll end up with suicides in a couple of days time or worse. Whoooo, this is not good, I'd pondered into the possibility of buy two beers and get one free. Phew !!! I've been outdone buy one and get one free. Hmmmm !!!


'I said last Sept. that things cannot get worse and I was wrong,its not much fun sitting in an empty bar waiting,but if you feel you can make a go of it and have the energy to do 16hr days and been abused sometimes go for ityou can have a good life here and the rains warm.'


Got to agree with you, in fact none of you have said anything I could possibly disagree with. Good sound advice. Given any non technical situation there's almost a masochistic worm ploughing away in me somewhere. I think it's levels of determination, that has this little spark in me saying well maybe you could have improved upon that result. This is a trait of my personality, there's not much I can do about it. I would say 50 pct of the time I'm proven wrong 50 pct of the time I'm proven right, so a mixed bag of results. Not having really seen the place thoroughly yet it's difficult to say. I can explain where my enthusiasm comes from, that simply being everything else at this price level is not very nice. Again comments on this thread at least seem to point towards the bar being reasonable or quite nice. But then there's a lot of things to be taken into consideration and top of that pile of course is location. Can anybody advise in kind of minutes in a car or walking time just exactly how far from the main strip of bars The Butterfly Rock Bar sits. It's very difficult. I've never been to Hua Hin. So extremely difficult to visualize in my mind. I've of course checked it out on road maps of Hua Hin but that only gives you a vague idea. Thanks =+=MURF=+=



=+=super joe=+= Thanks for further comment.

'It's hard down that road now as at least 12 bars I can think of off top of my head,'

The guy that I mentioned above another bar for sale on soi Hot Pot stated to me that when he bought his bar surprise surprise 12 months ago, this becomes a farce you know after a while, there were just 5 bars on this soi, at the point now of his must return home or have other business interests to take care of he claims there are 17 bars in soi Hot Pot. He was attempting to show me the rapid expansion of soi Hot Pot. Inflationary uplift ? Sellers license ? One wonders. I'll probably take a look at this place it's worth a drive to Hua Hin, I'll count them when I get there !

'Big problem too is the bars can't keep the better looking girls, they all leave to go BinterBaht so they can earn money.'

Yep, good point this, who the hell wants to spend good time tarting herself up only to be met by the 5 baht Ogre.


=+=MURF=+= Consider the rugby done, I'd put it on just for you.



Thanks to you all, I'm sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you and I apologise to
one, all and moderators for this, in fact it's crossed my mind that I might get thrown off
the board for this.


Cheers again.


Woooo ! Victor sounds spooky.

[Nereus]

WTF????

[JimmyGreaves]

Great bit of writing, enjoyed the read. Didn't realize these text boxes could hold so much text.

One day I will see how much they actually hold by filling it

[dtaai-maai]

Phew.

Be grateful, I nearly hit the 'quote' button by mistake...

[caller]

It got hard work about half-way through, but, phew what an effort!

Go and buy the Irish Bar in Korat, great looking proper pub interior right next door literally, to the Sima Thani Hotel.

Korat needs another ex-pat /farang tourist place with only a few up and running at present and the best, IMHO, is a hole in the wall type place like you describe, but very well run and popular.

The Irish pub was put together, I understand, by an ex-pat who sadly died shortly after it opened. His wife/partner ran it and leased/opened it for a while but it has now closed. It attracts some hotel clientale (that could be developed) but especially those from the American and Thai armed forces (in my experience). When the Thais are there, so, alas(?) are the girls. It has an upstairs bar that could be changed to a restaurant.

I really cannot understand why no-one has taken it on as it's an English style pub interior. At least one other forum member hails from that neck of the woods and maybe can explain more?

Thw woman with ownership - I understand - runs a bar cum barbers just around the corner. Always an oddity to me.

P.S. There's nothing remotely Irish about it apart from the name!

[Randy Cornhole]

I got bored after the first bit...

The OP must be on quality 'toot' and thats a fact...

[fft100]

is that the longest post ever on HHAD ?

[Babylon]

It got hard work about half-way through, but, phew what an effort!

Go and buy the Irish Bar in Korat, great looking proper pub interior right next door literally, to the Sima Thani Hotel.

I agree, have had a drink there a couple of times, what must have been a really nice interior, when it was done and great location next to the hotel, but very run down last time, but still some US forces customers and quite busy. Would be a good place done up and run well.

Intersting to hear the story of the owner, as I have often wondered how it got there.

[Sweetarts]

Thanks 'JimmyGreaves' and a thank you to 'caller' for your constructive comment. You wouldn't happen to know the price of the pub in Korat would you or how I might find out further information about this venue ?

[crazy88]

Thank you to sweetarts for the praise .Also for the frankness of your post .A few home truths in there that will have put a few noses out of joint .

You mention useless agents .Well ,as many posters know,I used to manage an agency in town before moving on to do my own things which at the moment is virtually nothing until after christmas One of the things i found hardest was that by the time the client walks through your door they have met so many wankers,bar stool prophets of doom and generally misinformed people that they would be instantly mistrustful and dismissive of anything you told them . "so where exactly did you meet this guy who told you you could get a 90 year lease ?" " Ok so forget the euphemisms,you met the guy in a bar that fronts a brothel at 1am,drunk .First class property professional all the way I,m sure ." "pick me a winner"

Now,as you made the effort to thank everyone for their input,here are some pics of BR,i have dozens more .some are clearly a party night but considering this is a tourist destination ,EVERY night should be party night .If you do decide to do this then accept Murfs input that it will be bloody hard work all the way if you wish to reap any decent rewards .Most of the people in the pictures are expats with disposable income .Behind the band is a list of members of the BR golf society,get them back or start another .start a fishing society and I will one of your founder members .Make the place buzz and let the happy hour hunters and balloon chasers (the ones that magically appear in any bar that puts balloons up as they know there will be a free buffet ) shuffle off to leer at the girls and make a small chang last 2 hours in a bar with a sticky floor and a blocked toilet .











Crazy 88

[Sweetarts]

Thanks crazy88 I was quite excited as I saw pictures opening up. Sadly I've seen all of these pictures except for the lady playing pool. These are basically the pictures being used to sell the bar. Would love to see anymore you could send me. I would jump at the chance to post you my email address if you could spare me your time.

I've spoken strongly about business agents and I am sure they cannot all be bad, but here again the agent selling The Butterfly Rock bar has seemingly decided that she is not going to answer anymore pertinent questions pertaining to the lease etc. I know it is better to visit the venue in question but in my case it's going to be a 10 hour roundtrip journey so it seems only obvious to me to do as much as possible via email before deciding whether or not to make that journey.

Thanks again for your time and trouble.

[Sweetarts]

Can someone tell me is the no smoking in bars a hard and fast rule in Hua Hin ? In Pattaya the idea has clearly been dumped. People smoking everywhere you go. Thanks

[lomuamart]

I think it depends on whether the place is air con or not. A bar owner will probably be better able to tell you the law.

[Frost]

is that the longest post ever on HHAD ?

LOL, what a geat post, i guess the biggest one i´ve ever seen in a forum!
How much time did u spent on it?

[caller]

Sweetarts,

You might want to start here. I guess Anna or last poster, Ken, would be your best bet?

http://koratfarang.com/board/index.php/ ... 630.0.html

Hope it's okay to post this link?