Premier League 2023-24

[caller]

And I think the whole point is being missed about Jones sending off.

Under the current ruling, it's a no-brainer, albeit a particularly tepid example. But what are such sending off's achieving? What is changing as a result off such sending off's?

The rule about dangerous or reckless tackles was brought in to stop tackles that could endanger players, and and by and large, that has succeeded.

But the rule is now a catch all, to catch anything that may, just may, meet that requirement for a red card and it actually is designed to do so. But is ultimately still subjective. And I think it needs amending from lack of control in the challenge, that in this case led to his studs catching the spud at the receiving end.

I mean, the ball was there, Jones was stretching, he got the ball, but in doing so, it took his foot over the ball. So when or how does a player decide to pull out of the challenge to avoid the 'lack of control' stage? Are we really saying he shouldn't have gone for the ball in the first place? That will go down well with the crowd and his manager. Ironically, it was getting the ball, that took all of Jones effort, that killed his momentum, So yes, the follow through caught the player and it looks bad in the final pic (which was the first thing the referee saw on the VAR screen). And I am sure it stung when the defender got hit. But no real damage was done and he was able to play on after a bit of treatment from the magic sponge.

The sending of off Jones seems to be an unthought of consequence of a rule that was designed for much more serious and sometimes premeditated dangerous play and needs to be amended. The referees immediate reaction to this incident and his reading of the tackle in the context of the game, was correct and sensible. VAR wasn't wrong in intervening under the current rules, although in the next game, they might ignore such a challenge and a yellow card would suffice.

[Lost]

It's Monday and still the talking point is how Liverpool were 'cheated'. Even made an appearance on the morning news.

Talk of Spurs 'doing the right thing' and getting the match replayed a la Arsenal vs Sheffield 1999 FA Cup. Arsenal asked for it to be replayed (the winning team needs to make that call).

OK, sure. Replay the game with Liverpool losing a man in the same minutes as the red cards (which were correct albeit Jotas first yellow was wrong). And while we're at it with the 'sportsmanship' we'll replay this one too, yes.

20231002_103523.jpg (68.67 KiB) Viewed 368 times

[Big Boy]

IMHO shit happens. This nonsense has only come about because of VAR. Scrap VAR, and leave it to the little man with questionable parentage in the middle. Proper football. If he cocks up, take it out on him. These post mortems are starting to really P me off, and are ruining the game.

It was always a fun part of the game questioning the ref's parentage.

[Dannie Boy]

Totally agree, we all know that refs and linesman occasionally got it wrong, but in the main, things even themselves up over a season. Whereas game’s typically lasted 92-94 minutes, now 100+ is becoming the norm and the spontaneity has gone. Also, the ref seeing replays from multiple angles and various playback speeds put a totally different complexion on many incidents - often making them look much worse in slow-mo!!

I have no qualms about goal line technology - this isn’t really controversial or open to debate, but if they did away with VAR tomorrow, they’d be no complaints from me.

[Lost]

Audio of the incident has been released. I believe, after play had been restarted, should they have halted proceedings and changed the decision, the game (following the rules) would need to be stopped and replayed at a later date hence the "can't do anything".

Farcical human error, but nothing malicious as some fans would have you believe.

[PeteC]

The above Twitter/TNT clip is not available in Thailand. Below is the BBC link with the transcript of what was said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66998252

The full transcript of what the officials said

VAR: Possible offside Diaz

Assistant referee 1: Coming back for the offside mate

Assistant referee 2: Give it

VAR: Just checking the offside. Delay, delay

VAR: Give the kick point, let's go. Kick point please

Referee: Yeah no worries mate

Replay operator: So here we are

Referee: Wait ok

Replay operator: Just get a tight angle

VAR: Yeah give me a 2D line ready after this one for frame two after that

Replay operator: So frame two there?

VAR: That's fine

VAR: Perfect yeah

VAR: 2D line on left boot

Replay operator: Let me just switch angles

VAR: Romero I think it is?

Replay operator: I think it might be this angle better? Happy with this angle?

VAR: Yep

Replay operator: 2D line on the boot. Yep ok.

VAR: And stop.

VAR: Check complete, check complete. That's fine, perfect (showing Diaz is clearly onside). Off.

Referee: Cheers mate

VAR: Thank you mate

Referee. Well done boys. Good process (game restarts with a free-kick)

Replay operator: Wait, wait, wait, wait. The on-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Yeah

Replay operator: Are you happy with this?

Assistant VAR: Offside goal yeah. That's wrong Daz.

VAR: What?

Replay operator: On-field decision was offside. Are you happy with this image? Yeah it's onside. The image that we gave them is onside.

Assistant VAR: He's played him. He's gone offside.

VAR: Oh (expletive)

Replay operative: Delay delay. Oli [PGMOL Hub Ops] saying to delay. Oli's saying to delay.

VAR: Pardon.

Replay operator: Oli's calling in to say delay the game. The decision is onside

VAR: Can't do anything

Replay operator: Oli's saying to delay. Oli's saying to delay

VAR: Oli?

Fourth official: Yeah

Replay operative: Delay the game, to delay the game? Stop the game.

VAR: They've restarted the game

VAR: Can't do anything, can't do anything.

Assistant VAR: Yeah, they've restarted. Yeah

VAR: Can't do anything.

Assistant VAR: no

VAR: I can't do anything. I can't do anything.

VAR: [expletive]

[Lost]

Maybe you can get the YouTube.

[PeteC]

^ Nope. "unavailable in your country..."

[Dannie Boy]

^ Nope. "unavailable in your country..."

It works with a vpn connected to the UK - anyway, what a farce!!

[Big Boy]

What is the cost of the technology? How many 'qualified' refs does it take to change a lightbulb get a decision wrong? Think back 10 years, it all worked fine with one man in black officiating. VAR is expensive BS.

[Dannie Boy]

Well of course the reason that VAR was introduced to eliminate the errors that the Ref/linesmen made. Although in fairness they have eliminated a lot of the errors that were made, some are still creeping through - the one between Liverpool and Spurs being the biggest error. But it’s not just the elimination of maybe 90% of the errors (which is a good thing), it’s the time it takes for many decisions to be made with both players and fans not knowing whether to celebrate or feel dejected - I suppose that because humans are involved it can never be 100% correct, so it’s really down to keeping things as they are and accept that even with VAR the officials will still get it sometimes wrong, or do away with it and revert to officials getting it wrong a bit more often?

Without a doubt, if VAR was scrapped, you’d probably only have to wait until the first week of games to be played without it, for a decision to be made where there would be screams for “we should bring it back”!!

[Big Boy]

Well of course the reason that VAR was introduced to eliminate the errors that the Ref/linesmen made. Although in fairness they have eliminated a lot of the errors that were made, some are still creeping through - the one between Liverpool and Spurs being the biggest error.

Without a doubt, if VAR was scrapped, you’d probably only have to wait until the first week of games to be played without it, for a decision to be made where there would be screams for “we should bring it back”!!

No, no, no!!! You are watching TV games in England. Try watching live football in Thailand. It has opened the door for widespread corruption. I actually wonder if this trait is creeping into the English game when you see stuff like Liverpool/Spurs.

Go back to the man who is paid to officiate, officiating. To err is human. VAR has improved nothing apart from footballers now being able to draw an imaginary oblong in front of their chest, and a new chant from supporters calling for VAR.

VAR is disruptive, and often leaves supporters having to wait for a replay when they get home to understand what had gone on. I hate it.

[Dannie Boy]

Yes of course I’m referring to the EPL - never been to a Thai football match so no idea what goes on there, although I’m sure corruption is a much greater possibility (likelihood) here than in the UK!!

I wouldn’t agree with you that VAR has improved nothing, I’d say that on numerous occasions it has improved decisions to have been clearly right, or clearly wrong, but unfortunately not on every occasion.

As I’ve mentioned before, I’d be happy if they dropped VAR, although of course we’d then be back in the same situation where countless decisions would be subject to everyone’s own interpretation.

[Big Boy]

But aren't countless decisions still baffling people? The gutter press or Twitter in Lost's case will still highlight every potential mishap, with or without VAR.

Try sitting on the terraces wondering why the rain is pouring, and nobody is kicking a ball. VAR is the worst thing that has ever hit football.

[Dannie Boy]

Like so many things in life, there’s no single foolproof solution - without VAR we are back to was it or wasn’t it. Although I fully accept that VAR has slowed the game down, often to unacceptable levels, however in MOST cases they get it right, but when they get it wrong as they did in the Spurs/Liverpool match, it’s understandable why everyone is shouting for it to be dropped.

I certainly won’t be losing any sleep whatever the decision is, but whatever it is, they’ll still be many arguments about the “was it, wasn’t it” issues!!