Agree with you Rider, I've pointed out before that all the articles so far are from lawyers or large developers / agents.
What you state is what I am waiting for.
I think there will be a change and I guess that may be sometime soon, but seeing it in black and white from the authorities is what counts!
Foreigners can no longer buy houses in Thailand via company.
Gosh, what a mess. I've just spent the last 2 hours reading this thread, and apart from the angyst, I think I know what the law is regarding foreign ownership.
The only real problem at present is if you want to sell. FWIW, I advise contacting your embassy to try and pursuade officials to make representations to the Thai Government to kindly issue a clarifying statement. It is clearly to the benefit of the country to have a stable real estate market and the income to the economy from farangs.
It must also be to the developers and Thai landowners interest to get this sorted favourably. From what I've read about the lawyers they are not worth their fee. Are there not farang lawyers out there?
If you are in the process of buying a house with its site, hold off unless you can afford to tie the money up for an unknown period. Appreciate it is not legal unless you invest 40m bhat. It may be unlikely the government will enforce the law if you are a retired resident and you can always rent if you can't sell. If you are married to a Thai national there are ways around the problem.
However if there is a flood of rentals by developers as they can't sell, rental values may fall or at least ex-renatl growth for a while.
I hope this will be sorted soon and feel sorry for those that have recieved poor advice from the legal profession over there as it does sound that punters have believed the company vesting was above board when clearly it was not when a sham.
The only real problem at present is if you want to sell. FWIW, I advise contacting your embassy to try and pursuade officials to make representations to the Thai Government to kindly issue a clarifying statement. It is clearly to the benefit of the country to have a stable real estate market and the income to the economy from farangs.
It must also be to the developers and Thai landowners interest to get this sorted favourably. From what I've read about the lawyers they are not worth their fee. Are there not farang lawyers out there?
If you are in the process of buying a house with its site, hold off unless you can afford to tie the money up for an unknown period. Appreciate it is not legal unless you invest 40m bhat. It may be unlikely the government will enforce the law if you are a retired resident and you can always rent if you can't sell. If you are married to a Thai national there are ways around the problem.
However if there is a flood of rentals by developers as they can't sell, rental values may fall or at least ex-renatl growth for a while.
I hope this will be sorted soon and feel sorry for those that have recieved poor advice from the legal profession over there as it does sound that punters have believed the company vesting was above board when clearly it was not when a sham.
Thai me to the moon
It's worth us all remembering here that all Thai Limited Companies require shareholders. Most Thai companies (apart from maybe the real major companies) also have these 'nominee' Thai shareholders who they may have never met. It's normal practice here.I hope this will be sorted soon and feel sorry for those that have recieved poor advice from the legal profession over there as it does sound that punters have believed the company vesting was above board
The Solicitor who is setting up your company more than likely has the same set-up.
So it's not like they are just using this method for us 'daft farangs' they also use it for themselves and their fellow Thai's.
I'm not writing this to try and make anyone feel better, but just so you know it's not just aimed at us Johhny Foreigners.
Burger
Burger, I'm just getting to know things Thai but the drift I have gained from this thread is that the authorities are cracking down because companies that have been set up in such a way, namely, using unknown Thai nationals to get around the rules, is not legal. The fact that many have done it doesn't alter the fact that it is illegal to buy land in such a way. Setting up trading companies with dummy nationals may be OK but that is not the question as long as the company doesn't own land.
Thus the authorities are asking for details from dummy director nationals and requiring financial proof. If such proof is not forthcoming the company is clearly a sham, set up merely to get around the requirement to invest 40m bhat.
For example, if a company is set up with an asset of 2m bhat, namley the house and site being purchased, and the farang has 49% of the shares it follows that the Thai directors own 51% of 2m bhat. So where did said national find 1,020,000 bhat. I gather they will have to prove it was their money and provide bank accounts, pay slips etc. Giving the money to the national to give to the vendor wont wash.
It is the same in the UK re money laundering and is an international requirement in most countries in the world.
I suspect the Thai government is under pressure to crack down on terrorism and this is one of the ways they have chosen to do so. My profession is commercial property management and have acted for many overseas clients investing in the UK. While I'm not sure how the residential market works with overseas purchasers I'm sure that proving the source of the money is as exacting as commercial purchases. The added downside in Thailand is that a farang cannot own more than 1 rai and must deposit 40m bhat for the privilage.
Thailand does not want foreign land owners without a big penalty and you can't get around that however hard you may wish to unless one uses other methods than the company route. It's a gamble on the possible non-enforcement of the rules.
Sorry for the ramble.
Thus the authorities are asking for details from dummy director nationals and requiring financial proof. If such proof is not forthcoming the company is clearly a sham, set up merely to get around the requirement to invest 40m bhat.
For example, if a company is set up with an asset of 2m bhat, namley the house and site being purchased, and the farang has 49% of the shares it follows that the Thai directors own 51% of 2m bhat. So where did said national find 1,020,000 bhat. I gather they will have to prove it was their money and provide bank accounts, pay slips etc. Giving the money to the national to give to the vendor wont wash.
It is the same in the UK re money laundering and is an international requirement in most countries in the world.
I suspect the Thai government is under pressure to crack down on terrorism and this is one of the ways they have chosen to do so. My profession is commercial property management and have acted for many overseas clients investing in the UK. While I'm not sure how the residential market works with overseas purchasers I'm sure that proving the source of the money is as exacting as commercial purchases. The added downside in Thailand is that a farang cannot own more than 1 rai and must deposit 40m bhat for the privilage.
Thailand does not want foreign land owners without a big penalty and you can't get around that however hard you may wish to unless one uses other methods than the company route. It's a gamble on the possible non-enforcement of the rules.
Sorry for the ramble.
Thai me to the moon
That's not yet clear John, we have to wait and see who they are really tragetting, every foreigner or just the foreign developers.Thailand does not want foreign land owners without a big penalty and you can't get around that however hard you may wish to unless one uses other methods than the company route.
Thailand has allowed foreigners to 'own' land this way for ages now and in great numbers, they know how it works with the Limited Companies, so maybe they do want the investment ?? If they don't go back to how it was for the foreigners buying their holiday/retirement home, then they're saying they've now had enough of it.
But look below at the wording of the governments recent statement, it doesn't mention your average buyer it only talks about developers:
"foreigners working with Thais set up corporation to do property trading by initially buying land and house for the purpose of making it a home or office and subsequently apply to change the usage to for sale or sub-divide and sale to foreigners "
"in the event that a company limited which has already been set up and apply to own land for the objective of doing business in real estate "
It seems to mention buying land for house or office almost as if it's ok, why did they need to mention sub-dividing plots and selling (development), why not just say "ALL FOREIGNERS, EVEN IF YOU JUST WANT A SMALL PLOT WITH A HOUSE OR OFFICE" ?
Why mention checking companies who have the objective of doing business in real estate, why not just say "ALL FOREIGN INVESTED COMPANIES" ?
I think coming to a conclusion one way or the other is premature until it is clarified.
Burger
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silverbird
- Member
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Good post johnrxx99,
I'm negative about my experience with buying a house and holiday home here as it's just a headfcuk compared with uk property with the fake ownership issues here and wish i just took a long lease instead which is a newish thing here but at least the government are saying that is legal for now but even then the polictians are chinese and just want money also and screw everybody else.
I was led up the garden path by the property pimps with there 'everything is ok, this is how everybody has to do it in thailand, it's normal and very safe' crap.
They just want money that's all and just to line up the stupid foreigner across the tabe to take it from them.
I might be oerly negative but i really think they think along them lines.
I'm negative about my experience with buying a house and holiday home here as it's just a headfcuk compared with uk property with the fake ownership issues here and wish i just took a long lease instead which is a newish thing here but at least the government are saying that is legal for now but even then the polictians are chinese and just want money also and screw everybody else.
I was led up the garden path by the property pimps with there 'everything is ok, this is how everybody has to do it in thailand, it's normal and very safe' crap.
They just want money that's all and just to line up the stupid foreigner across the tabe to take it from them.
I might be oerly negative but i really think they think along them lines.
No I put the main house in long term gf's name as a temporary solution(dangerous I know but I was dangled along) and the holiday home leased for 30 years.
Lawyer took a longer than agreed to set up company and by then the law or guidelines (or whatever selfish assholing) was changed again.
Was around 1972 when they changed the law in thailand to stop foreigners owning their house. who knows what kind of government or military dictatorship was in power at the time. I'm sure they manged to screw over a good number of foreigners at the time. A very old fashioned chinese style selfish move anyway by world standards and to still stick to it and use it to screw the foreigners who wanted just to own a house without all the childish sneaky assholing from them.
Lawyer took a longer than agreed to set up company and by then the law or guidelines (or whatever selfish assholing) was changed again.
Was around 1972 when they changed the law in thailand to stop foreigners owning their house. who knows what kind of government or military dictatorship was in power at the time. I'm sure they manged to screw over a good number of foreigners at the time. A very old fashioned chinese style selfish move anyway by world standards and to still stick to it and use it to screw the foreigners who wanted just to own a house without all the childish sneaky assholing from them.
This is just going around in circles and the above "emotion" adds nothing to several recent comments that also add little by carrying on the theme about what was and what has happened in the last couple of months.
We all know, okay!
As a potential buyer, I'm still looking for a steer on the future, if there is one? It has been alluded to on here and other sites - does have anyone have an informed update?
We all know, okay!
As a potential buyer, I'm still looking for a steer on the future, if there is one? It has been alluded to on here and other sites - does have anyone have an informed update?
Talk is cheap
caller - the law is clear it seems. If you live there already you will get a feel for the political drift because that is where the action will come from. The powers must know there are many aliens living in Thailand having bought property. That has brought in a lot of money, taxes etc.
Bit like the UK really. If there are votes to be gained from knocking the foreigners/immigrants etc it's fair game. Only difference is that we have the EC and a human rights act.
Are the Thais getting pissed off from all the foreigners, now they've got the money, or is the mood OK? If the former the politicians will be playing that one. If there is lots more money to make, the people will grin and bear it.
Me, I'm going to rent, see if it's OK and take a view then.
PS - look at burgers post regarding current position. The government. I suspect, will never come out and say anything, they'll just feel the ripples.
Bit like the UK really. If there are votes to be gained from knocking the foreigners/immigrants etc it's fair game. Only difference is that we have the EC and a human rights act.
Are the Thais getting pissed off from all the foreigners, now they've got the money, or is the mood OK? If the former the politicians will be playing that one. If there is lots more money to make, the people will grin and bear it.
Me, I'm going to rent, see if it's OK and take a view then.
PS - look at burgers post regarding current position. The government. I suspect, will never come out and say anything, they'll just feel the ripples.
Thai me to the moon
There is a property expo oround july 29 in the outdoor market in homepro.
It's really dissapointing reading about thai law (guidelines?) on the internet and will change a lot of minds about looking to buy the retirment home in thailand now.
Seems strange the property expo would go ahead, very strange. I hope there is good information handed out there from the local council or independent source to prevent foreigners getting roasted.
It's really dissapointing reading about thai law (guidelines?) on the internet and will change a lot of minds about looking to buy the retirment home in thailand now.
Seems strange the property expo would go ahead, very strange. I hope there is good information handed out there from the local council or independent source to prevent foreigners getting roasted.
Found this in The Nation paper in Bangkok:-
Legal Information
Now is a good time to purchase that Sukhumvit condo. Though prices are on the high side compared to a few years ago, interest rates are coming down and banks and finance companies, who wouldn’t even lend cash-starved customers an ear a couple of years ago, are now throwing money at anyone who walks through their doors.
Unless you happen to be an alien, that is.
Yep, alien. That is what the government calls foreigners, as in “Laws Governing the Acquisition of Immovable Property by Aliens in Thailandâ€
Legal Information
Now is a good time to purchase that Sukhumvit condo. Though prices are on the high side compared to a few years ago, interest rates are coming down and banks and finance companies, who wouldn’t even lend cash-starved customers an ear a couple of years ago, are now throwing money at anyone who walks through their doors.
Unless you happen to be an alien, that is.
Yep, alien. That is what the government calls foreigners, as in “Laws Governing the Acquisition of Immovable Property by Aliens in Thailandâ€
Thai me to the moon
