Hard lessons in expat paradise

Post by **johnnyk** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:42 am

Yeah but, "happen long time go mai ben lai, bpai nai?"

Post by **Jaime** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:52 am

Otherwise known as the airbrush approach to national history.

Post by **johnnyk** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:42 am

Yes, a brush similar to that used by some other countries.
"We're Number 1!!!"

Post by **Jaime** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:31 am

The fact that you are educated enough to have an opinion is the main difference.

Post by **Guess** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:23 pm

Jaime wrote:Interesting debate fellas. Now all you need to do is to start telling the whole story to the 50 million Thais who have no clue that any of this ever happened to their country!

That has always interested and amazed me. I hated history at school mainly because it was about things I did not find interesting, is was all about how the British had controlled the world and how they had some close calls but always won in the end and it involve lots of dates that I could never remember. When I asked my mum, who by that time had become a school teacher, she told that it was taught so that the same mistakes would not be made in the future. I don't think I ever got a reasonable answer to why it only related to one country's supremacy over another.

Some of the Thai school kids do learn about Thai history but the subject seems to be confined to the middle and professional classes who can afford to send there kids on filed trips and visit historical museums. Even then it is confined to the success of the Thais fending off the Khmers and the Burmese and little mention of the Japanese occupation.

Are they better off for not knowing and has the intentions of the West paid off. From what we have seen recently in the middle east it seems not.

Post by **PeteC** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:31 pm

Guess, ask any Thai about 50,000 Americans being here and running 8 airbases, as well as Army and Marine installations and they'll look at you like you were from the moon. You may find 1 in 50, but over the age of 50 only. Another chapter of their history that has been burried. Pete

Post by **Norseman** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:55 pm

I don't know what they learn in school about history.
Next to nothing about the world in general I guess, but a lot of former and glory Thai-days.
The Thai army fought in the Korean and the Vietnam war.
They even fought with bravery in Laos against Phatet Lao and Vietcong.
Thai soldiers gained a high reputation for their high fighting spirit.
Tough men obviously.

Post by **PeteC** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:48 pm

Norseman wrote:I don't know what they learn in school about history.
Next to nothing about the world in general I guess, but a lot of former and glory Thai-days.
The Thai army fought in the Korean and the Vietnam war.
They even fought with bravery in Laos against Phatet Lao and Vietcong.
Thai soldiers gained a high reputation for their high fighting spirit.
Tough men obviously.

I don't remember the exact numbers but will look them up when time. I think Thai losses in VN were somewhere around 1,600. There was a division named "Cobra Division" and these guys were fierce special forces fighters and very high reputation. Of course, the motivation in those days was if things were not stopped/contained, they would be fighting on Thai soil next.

I'm sure their contribution in Laos, Cambodia and against the Thai communists in Issan and the South at least tripled the above casuality numbers between the 1965-75 era. This doesn't include the Thai police who suffered very big losses in the border areas. Pete

Sad things to remember.

Post by **HansMartin** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:37 am

My wife's uncle is a Thai retired military officer (colonel--I think). He fought with the Americans in Korea and Viet Nam. I once asked him about his expereinces--my Thai isn't good nor is his English; but his response was the simpliest and most eloquent I ever heard. He simply said:

"Too many died"

Post by **SuperTonic** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:22 pm

I notice some rather pejorative comments about Thai's knowledge of history, perhaps a few of you should spend some time in a British school. From my own experience of teaching in this country (not history!) I can tell you that our kids are often very poorly educated (as well as ill-mannered) and don't have a clue about history. Or maths. Or English. Or science. Or anything.

Post by **DawnHRD** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:58 pm

SuperTonic wrote:I notice some rather pejorative comments about Thai's knowledge of history, perhaps a few of you should spend some time in a British school. From my own experience of teaching in this country (not history!) I can tell you that our kids are often very poorly educated (as well as ill-mannered) and don't have a clue about history. Or maths. Or English. Or science. Or anything.

I went to a British comprehensive school & did very well, thank you very much! My history teachers were great (cheers, Mr Thomas & Mr Thornton!!

) & instilled in me a lifelong interest in things past. I also did very well in English, languages, fairly well in Science & passed Maths. OK, it wasn't exactly recently...

Post by **SuperTonic** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:04 pm

There's the point, it wasn't recently. I did alright too, but returning as a teacher hasn't exactly inspired confidence in the nation's youth.

Post by **Big Boy** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:20 pm

SuperTonic wrote:

From my own experience of teaching in this country (not history!) I can tell you that our kids are often very poorly educated (as well as ill-mannered) and don't have a clue about history. Or maths. Or English. Or science. Or anything.

Firstly, you need to specify which country 'this country' is. You don't give many clues in your profile.

If you are referring to teaching in the UK, then surely this is self-criticsm - unless you teach domestic science or something else not included on your list.

If you are referring to teaching in Thailand, maybe you've just encountered a bad bunch.

My experience comes from my own kids, and I've been very satisfied with their education in the UK. They know about all of the subjects that you've mentioned and many more. I certainly wouldn't consider either of my kids ill-mannered - far from it. Yes, there is the odd bad apple at my son's school, but generally the level of education is good, and manners have always been exceptional whenever I've visited.

Out of interest, if teaching in the UK, is your experience of just one school, or across a wide spectrum of teaching establishments?

Post by **Winkie** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:26 pm

I've always considered my eldest to be quite bright.

Sadly, I have to say that she has had a huge amount of catching up to do since being placed in an English Curriculum International School in Bangkok.

I also have to say what a pleasure it is to see her bring home good condition library books, without pages missing nad scribbles all over them.

Sad but true, the UK education system isn't quite as good as it should be.

I think for a UK teacher to rasie this point is not self-critism. I'm sure it is not the repsonsibilty of one single teacher, but of the system and management as a whole.

Winkie

Post by **SuperTonic** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:31 pm

I probably should have been clearer, yes I meant the UK. Also I would not necessarily say it's a self-criticism. The students go through many classes and have many outside influences before they get to me. Additionally, the curriculum imposes some poorly thought out restrictions on teachers.

To be honest, if you're in a reasonably pleasant area then yes you will get a good education, but in less affluent areas of the UK, the standard of education is poor as by the time the kids get to school they're uncontrollable, and putting 30+ of them in a class makes it an impossible task to maintain order, and unfortunately more time is spent on maintaining that order than any real teaching.

Regarding my own experience, that has been in college lecturing primarily, with much smaller groups though I'm still finding that youngsters are coming to me lacking basic skills, a grasp of spelling and grammar, and of the world around them. Instead they are more interested in how many times 50 cent got shot.

My experience in the UK comes from doing a lot of work in local schools special needs units which is in itself very rewarding, but while I'm there I do get to encounter the rest of the kids who are far less enjoyable to work with, in complete contrast to Thai kids who seem to be vastly more interested in being educated.

The basic problem in British education is that teachers are unable to effectively manage disruptive pupils, there are no specialist school places available as the government in its infinite wisdom has closed many of them [the end result is more classroom disruption wrecking the education of the whole class for the sake of just one or two], and we have a popular culture promoting stupidity. Personally I can't wait to get on that plane!