Crackdown on back to back tourist visas
I know for a fact that they have tightened up in Singapore. I used to get a 12 month Non immigrant "O" based on marriage from Singapore but when I called thenm earlier in the year they had stopped issuing them. They would only issue a single entry visa.lomuamart wrote:As far as I'm aware, the Non O visa situation hasn't been tightened up by regulation. However, to get one (either single or multi entry) in a neighbouring country, you've got to qualify for it. Married to a Thai or over 50 and looking to retire.
As I was visiting the UK I applied for a new visa from the consulate in Hull.
I got a new Non-Imm in Penang last July based on nothing, and know many in town who go to Malaysia, Vientienne, Vietnam and others and get new Non-Imm 'O's and 'B's based on nothing. The 'B' one I've never understood as would have thought that if you hadn't taken up employment in your first 15 months then you wouldn't get another 'B'.
All the above had an initial Non-Imm issued in their home countries of course.
SJ
All the above had an initial Non-Imm issued in their home countries of course.
SJ
Certainly not doubting you, but I'm amazed. You didn't even apply on the basis of marriage to a Thai? (If you are).Super Joe wrote:I got a new Non-Imm in Penang last July based on nothing, and know many in town who go to Malaysia, Vientienne, Vietnam and others and get new Non-Imm 'O's and 'B's based on nothing. The 'B' one I've never understood as would have thought that if you hadn't taken up employment in your first 15 months then you wouldn't get another 'B'.
All the above had an initial Non-Imm issued in their home countries of course.
SJ
I'd certainly never advise anyone to go to a neighbouring country and apply for a Non O unless they were married to a Thai or over 50.
There's a section on the application form that asks on what basis you're applying for the Non O. (Visit Thai wife or investigating retirement - if over 50 - are the norm. I want a long holiday or to visit friends are not options). Mine was to visit my wife. There no need for financial information, although I supplied it in the hope of getting a multi-entry, but they did want to see the marriage certificate, copy wife's ID card and copy of her tabien bahn.
It dosn't matter what you've got in your passport before from the UK or elsewhere when applying for another visa. It's up to Penang or wherever. You've still got to qualify.
Has any other member achieved what SJ has? I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear if so.
Lomu, to visit "friends" or "family-members" are options to get a non-imm....if you're very lucky...lol
"Family-members" means not automatically Thai-citizens.
It can be also your own Dad, Mom, Cousin, whoever, which is living in Thailand on a Non-Imm or Residency Permit, rent/bought a house...may be this member is sick and need your care...or whatever.
In cases of visits to "family-members" the application must be accompanied by a copy of there passport, rent-contract or blue/yellow-book.
I. e. Perth will grant you a Visa for this reason...even to visit your Thai-gf.
The Thai-Immigration law is not sooooo restrictive as it looks sometimes.
The biggest problem is, that the "not so well-educated" officers in the different Thai-Embassies/Consulates gives a shit, if Thai-Immigration-Law allows you to apply for reasons as mentioned above.
They are more interested in "normal" application-reasons, like retirement, marriage, working, business.
If you speak with an officer of the Immigration in Bangkok, you would be surprised, perhaps, what all is possible...even for unmarried, not working persons, which aren't 50 years yet.
Last not least it won't help you in front of the Embassy/Consulate-Officer, if he doesn't know about all these possible ways, feel lazy or unwell.
Mostly he will tell you, that he must speak with the Consul at first...
It's the very friendly way to tell you to piss off!
So the written reality is light-years away from the lived reality!
...and, no, in the last 10 years I never heard or saw by own experiences that you can apply for a new non-imm based on nothing.
Sounds more to be one of these illegal visa from the friendly travel agent next corner.
I wouldn't wonder....
But, as you know...this is Thailand...
"Family-members" means not automatically Thai-citizens.
It can be also your own Dad, Mom, Cousin, whoever, which is living in Thailand on a Non-Imm or Residency Permit, rent/bought a house...may be this member is sick and need your care...or whatever.
In cases of visits to "family-members" the application must be accompanied by a copy of there passport, rent-contract or blue/yellow-book.
I. e. Perth will grant you a Visa for this reason...even to visit your Thai-gf.
The Thai-Immigration law is not sooooo restrictive as it looks sometimes.
The biggest problem is, that the "not so well-educated" officers in the different Thai-Embassies/Consulates gives a shit, if Thai-Immigration-Law allows you to apply for reasons as mentioned above.
They are more interested in "normal" application-reasons, like retirement, marriage, working, business.
If you speak with an officer of the Immigration in Bangkok, you would be surprised, perhaps, what all is possible...even for unmarried, not working persons, which aren't 50 years yet.
Last not least it won't help you in front of the Embassy/Consulate-Officer, if he doesn't know about all these possible ways, feel lazy or unwell.
Mostly he will tell you, that he must speak with the Consul at first...
It's the very friendly way to tell you to piss off!
So the written reality is light-years away from the lived reality!
...and, no, in the last 10 years I never heard or saw by own experiences that you can apply for a new non-imm based on nothing.
Sounds more to be one of these illegal visa from the friendly travel agent next corner.
I wouldn't wonder....
But, as you know...this is Thailand...
Funnily enough Hogus you don't actually write "nothing" in the 'purpose of visit' box. They accept 'extended travelling around Thailand', 'visiting girlfriend', 'visiting friends/family'', 'learning Thai language', 'study Thai culture', 'seeking employment ('B') and such like.hogus wrote:and, no, in the last 10 years I never heard or saw by own experiences that you can apply for a new non-imm based on nothing.
Sounds more to be one of these illegal visa from the friendly travel agent next corner.
There's loads of people I know that have got them from London, Hull etc and NONE of them return to UK every 15 months to get a new one, always get one from neighbouring countries, as long as your initial one was issued in your home country.
When I first came out on a Non-Imm 'O' from London, I wrote done 'marriage/to stay with wife' but only had copy of marriage cert, the clerk said could not accept a copy, fill out another form and write something different down!!
SJ
Just a side note as SJ reminded me of it. When registering a marriage they're obligated to give you two original marriage certificates, one for wife and one for husband. I ran into a case where they got a bit lazy and only issued a friend and wife one.
Make sure you insist upon it as the extra original can come in handy. Pete
Make sure you insist upon it as the extra original can come in handy. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Good luck to you, SJ and the people you know who've been successful with this.
All I can say is that in 11 years here, I've never met or heard of anyone getting a Non O visa from a neighbouring country other than to visit/stay with Thai wife or looking at retirement, taking care of Thai child and one I'd forgotten as Hogus pointed out - visiting your own non-Thai family. That's also the case even if you're applying for one on the back of getting one in the UK or wherever.
If it's all so easy, then I don't see what all the fuss is about with Tourist visas. All you'd have to do is pop down to Penang and say you want to do more extended traveling around Thailand and they'd happily give you a multi-entry Non O (as long as you'd had one immediately before from your home country).
I was refused a multi-entry in Penang a year and a half ago and I'm married to a Thai. Single entry only as they want you to apply for the annual extension in Thailand. Other than yourself, SJ, to the best of my terrible memory, the only person I recall getting a multi-entry recently on this forum is WL and his wife is Thai - that was from KL.
It's been reported elsewhere on the internet that Penang have gone even more "funny" with tvs, before this new edict was announced. People are being refused tvs there if they've extended one by 30 days in Thailand. Don't ask me why, but that's what they're doing. When I was there 1.5 years ago, I met a number of people whose applications for tvs had been rejected because Penang were asking to see a confirmed flight out of Thailand. These travelers were rushing around to travel agents booking cheap flights to Singapore and elsewhere and then re-applying.
What I'm getting at is firstly that I'm surprised that Penang or elsewhere take any notice of a previous visa you've got from your home country. All these consulates make their own rules up and when dealing with them it's quite often a totally different ballgame than dealing with Hull or Perth etc.
Secondly, Penang have become extremely strict with tvs over the past few years, regardless of what Imm legislation says. It just seems strange that, bearing this in mind, they seem so willing to give visas to people for the purpose of further tourism that can last up to 15 months.
Again, I'm not doubting you. I'm just surprised.
All I can say is that in 11 years here, I've never met or heard of anyone getting a Non O visa from a neighbouring country other than to visit/stay with Thai wife or looking at retirement, taking care of Thai child and one I'd forgotten as Hogus pointed out - visiting your own non-Thai family. That's also the case even if you're applying for one on the back of getting one in the UK or wherever.
If it's all so easy, then I don't see what all the fuss is about with Tourist visas. All you'd have to do is pop down to Penang and say you want to do more extended traveling around Thailand and they'd happily give you a multi-entry Non O (as long as you'd had one immediately before from your home country).
I was refused a multi-entry in Penang a year and a half ago and I'm married to a Thai. Single entry only as they want you to apply for the annual extension in Thailand. Other than yourself, SJ, to the best of my terrible memory, the only person I recall getting a multi-entry recently on this forum is WL and his wife is Thai - that was from KL.
It's been reported elsewhere on the internet that Penang have gone even more "funny" with tvs, before this new edict was announced. People are being refused tvs there if they've extended one by 30 days in Thailand. Don't ask me why, but that's what they're doing. When I was there 1.5 years ago, I met a number of people whose applications for tvs had been rejected because Penang were asking to see a confirmed flight out of Thailand. These travelers were rushing around to travel agents booking cheap flights to Singapore and elsewhere and then re-applying.
What I'm getting at is firstly that I'm surprised that Penang or elsewhere take any notice of a previous visa you've got from your home country. All these consulates make their own rules up and when dealing with them it's quite often a totally different ballgame than dealing with Hull or Perth etc.
Secondly, Penang have become extremely strict with tvs over the past few years, regardless of what Imm legislation says. It just seems strange that, bearing this in mind, they seem so willing to give visas to people for the purpose of further tourism that can last up to 15 months.
Again, I'm not doubting you. I'm just surprised.
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Wanderlust
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Just for clarity's sake, SJ, you are talking about a multiple entry non immigrant 'O' and not a single entry, aren't you? It is the former that have been so hard to get (apparently) in neighbouring countries in the last few years, whereas the latter can be obtained anywhere. I know this is what lomu is talking about but it is not clear in every post that is what you are referring to.
What i dont understand about this thread is the expectation that for some weird reason these back to back TVs should be easy to obtain
it just doesnt make sense to me
to do my yearly renewal of both retirement and marriage visas i have had to show in spades my income from abroad every time plus a multitude of other documents
prior to getting those i had 4 years by duncs postal/Hull service and did not need to show anything other than hard baht cash
Maybe immigration are trying to inject some common sense into their much abused system
it just doesnt make sense to me
to do my yearly renewal of both retirement and marriage visas i have had to show in spades my income from abroad every time plus a multitude of other documents prior to getting those i had 4 years by duncs postal/Hull service and did not need to show anything other than hard baht cash
Maybe immigration are trying to inject some common sense into their much abused system
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Must admit I too in all my years of living here have never experienced or come across anyone getting a non-imm visa based on nothing, or just writing some BS on the form. Maybe things are easier in Hull but all I have seen from neigbouring countries are clampdowns such as the one in the OP (things were a little easier in the late 90s though before the Toxin administration).
Even with wads of documents from MoFa my own visa has become increasingly harder to extend over the years though I put this down to Hua Hin immigration making unnecessary obstacles - as mentioned above things are far easier in Bangkok.
SJ, you must have a halo when it comes to immigration.
The tourist visa thing I can understand if they don't want illegal Burmese/Filipino/Indian workers here taking Thai jobs but again why tarnish every 'alien' with the same brush. You're not poor and you want a longer tourist visa, then pay for it - just stick up the prices, that will stop those from neighbouring countries abusing the system and offer a way to stay for the unmarried under 50 group.
Even with wads of documents from MoFa my own visa has become increasingly harder to extend over the years though I put this down to Hua Hin immigration making unnecessary obstacles - as mentioned above things are far easier in Bangkok.
SJ, you must have a halo when it comes to immigration.
The tourist visa thing I can understand if they don't want illegal Burmese/Filipino/Indian workers here taking Thai jobs but again why tarnish every 'alien' with the same brush. You're not poor and you want a longer tourist visa, then pay for it - just stick up the prices, that will stop those from neighbouring countries abusing the system and offer a way to stay for the unmarried under 50 group.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Sarge.....I think the point some people are trying to make is that unless you're married to a Thai, or you're of retirement age, there's no way for you to be able to stay here. Yes, you can open a business, but let's face it, most of the existing ones are illegal anyway as you're actually meant to have real shareholders, rather than bogus ones. The other option would be to invest however million baht in stocks and shares or whatever, but that's not everybody's cup of tea.
Also, many expats, myself included, fail to see what all the fuss is about, considering that no matter what, there is no sort of benefits system over here so it's not as if you can sponge of the state. As far as taking jobs away from the Thais is concerned.........maybe a valid point with regards to other Asians, but lets, face it, what chance have you got of finding a well paid job that a Thai could have been doing. They look after their own so they wouldn't employ you in the first place.
Teachers.......In all my years in Thailand, I have only ever met about three or four Thais who's English was good enough to be able to teach the language. Certainly not enough Thais available to fill all English teaching jobs.
Dive instructors..........can't comment
Bar owners........they hardly make enough money to live, let alone deprive the country of taxes.
Above all........after ten years of marriage, two kids, property, etc, etc. I'm still not trustworthy enough to be left alone, in that just as with a convicted criminal, I have to report myself every 90 days. Should I fall below the minimum income mark by just $2, that's me, out on my arse to to hell with the family..................so much for family values then.
I guess what I'm saying is that we will all be long dead and buried before the Thai system gets any type of logic or reason injected into it.
However.....................the beer is cheap and most importantly....the women are drop dead beautiful
Also, many expats, myself included, fail to see what all the fuss is about, considering that no matter what, there is no sort of benefits system over here so it's not as if you can sponge of the state. As far as taking jobs away from the Thais is concerned.........maybe a valid point with regards to other Asians, but lets, face it, what chance have you got of finding a well paid job that a Thai could have been doing. They look after their own so they wouldn't employ you in the first place.
Teachers.......In all my years in Thailand, I have only ever met about three or four Thais who's English was good enough to be able to teach the language. Certainly not enough Thais available to fill all English teaching jobs.
Dive instructors..........can't comment
Bar owners........they hardly make enough money to live, let alone deprive the country of taxes.
Above all........after ten years of marriage, two kids, property, etc, etc. I'm still not trustworthy enough to be left alone, in that just as with a convicted criminal, I have to report myself every 90 days. Should I fall below the minimum income mark by just $2, that's me, out on my arse to to hell with the family..................so much for family values then.
I guess what I'm saying is that we will all be long dead and buried before the Thai system gets any type of logic or reason injected into it.
However.....................the beer is cheap and most importantly....the women are drop dead beautiful
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
I come from a different view point having been married to two thai women spanning 28 twenty eight years its people like me Buksi, Takiap that follow the rules do contribute to the country and take care of families that should have the rules and regulations eased (90 day reporting for a start) not the group of people that have (sorry to say it) abused the system over many years and thus tarred us all with their brush.
whether one agrees likes or hates it the fact is the Thais do NOT want under 50 unmarried people
Common sense would say go somewhere else and then if this mythical mountain of economic activity effects the Thais detrimentally they will change
I also find it odd that Aliens of local origin should be dealt with differently to EU US people that smacks of elitism at best racism at worst.
The fact as i see it is that there are very very few that have the funds to stay as permanent non working tourists (unmarried and under 50) in fact i only know of one genuine candidate in 11 years, the majority are trying to work in any way they can (time share sales peops, electricians, painters and decorators etc)
Names and addresses withheld
whether one agrees likes or hates it the fact is the Thais do NOT want under 50 unmarried people
Common sense would say go somewhere else and then if this mythical mountain of economic activity effects the Thais detrimentally they will change
I also find it odd that Aliens of local origin should be dealt with differently to EU US people that smacks of elitism at best racism at worst.
The fact as i see it is that there are very very few that have the funds to stay as permanent non working tourists (unmarried and under 50) in fact i only know of one genuine candidate in 11 years, the majority are trying to work in any way they can (time share sales peops, electricians, painters and decorators etc)
Names and addresses withheld
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Re: The Non-Immingrant 'O' or 'B' visas, this is straight off the Hull website today. London issues them the same, despite what people say about Hull being 'easier' it's quicker yes, but me and people I know have always put down 'visiting friends' or 'extended stay' and been issued one all the same.
With regards to getting renewals in neighbouring countries, I've highlighted in red a couple of the options. Maybe the farangs who get new one's issued locally are putting these down as reasons, maybe they are taking a letter along from JoeBloggs Company Limited with the promise of employment, I'm not too sure. But what I do know is they do not go back to UK every 15 months to get one they go Vientienne, Vietnam, Malaysia etc. These people aren't married, over 50 or have work permits.
I haven't looked at their visas but they must be multi-entries otherwise they'd be back to square one after just 3 months of this new visa!?!?
People do get refused a Non-Immigrant 'O' in neighbouring countries if they never had an initial one issued in their home country in the first place.
SJ
With regards to getting renewals in neighbouring countries, I've highlighted in red a couple of the options. Maybe the farangs who get new one's issued locally are putting these down as reasons, maybe they are taking a letter along from JoeBloggs Company Limited with the promise of employment, I'm not too sure. But what I do know is they do not go back to UK every 15 months to get one they go Vientienne, Vietnam, Malaysia etc. These people aren't married, over 50 or have work permits.
I haven't looked at their visas but they must be multi-entries otherwise they'd be back to square one after just 3 months of this new visa!?!?
People do get refused a Non-Immigrant 'O' in neighbouring countries if they never had an initial one issued in their home country in the first place.
SJ