Electric Vehicles (EV) Thread

[Dannie Boy]

EVs may or may not be more fire prone than ICE cars, I suspect they are, but the point is that when they self-immolate the consequences are generally far worse. EV fires are almost impossible to extinguish, burn at very high temperatures, and for long periods of time, sometimes days. Battery powered cars really are a crap idea.

Find an authoritative report that shows EV cars a greater fire risk than ICE cars and post it here - every Google report I have searched states the opposite.

It is a fact that once alight, it is very difficult to extinguish a fire in a lithium ion battery, hence the push to introduce solid state battery technology that poses significantly less risk…………..and just happens to offer greater range and faster charging, but I suppose they’ll be crap too in your eyes?

[KhunLA]

[KhunLA]

EVs may or may not be more fire prone than ICE cars, I suspect they are, but the point is that when they self-immolate the consequences are generally far worse. EV fires are almost impossible to extinguish, burn at very high temperatures, and for long periods of time, sometimes days. Battery powered cars really are a crap idea.

Find an authoritative report that shows EV cars a greater fire risk than ICE cars and post it here - every Google report I have searched states the opposite.

It is a fact that once alight, it is very difficult to extinguish a fire in a lithium ion battery, hence the push to introduce solid state battery technology that poses significantly less risk…………..and just happens to offer greater range and faster charging, but I suppose they’ll be crap too in your eyes?

Most battery manufacturing (CH) are now, or will in short time, use LFP chemistry, and EV fires should be a think of the past.

Pretty simple, actually know what you're buying, and at present, only buy an EV using LFP, plenty available, and would actually be pretty stupid not to, considering they last so much longer.

LFP Battery cycle.png

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[2/cb]

If battery technology develops so that the fire risk is greatly reduced, costs are equivalent to ICE, range similar to ICE (even after ten or more years), then my concerns would be answered.
I’m probably going to be waiting a long time!

[KhunLA]

If battery technology develops so that the fire risk is greatly reduced ...
... LFP chemistry basically eliminates fire risk

costs are equivalent to ICE ...
... already same price, even cheaper

range similar to ICE (even after ten or more years) ...
... more range available now, matches ICEVs, does cost a bit more

then my concerns would be answered.
I’m probably going to be waiting a long time!
... only in your mind, as all your concerns addressed already

You can keep repeating your false statements, but still doesn't make them true

[Dannie Boy]

If battery technology develops so that the fire risk is greatly reduced ...
... LFP chemistry basically eliminates fire risk

costs are equivalent to ICE ...
... already same price, even cheaper

range similar to ICE (even after ten or more years) ...
... more range available now, matches ICEVs, does cost a bit more

then my concerns would be answered.
I’m probably going to be waiting a long time!
... only in your mind, as all your concerns addressed already

You can keep repeating your false statements, but still doesn't make them true

The only issue I’d challenge is the pricing - purchase price of EV’s are generally quite a bit more expensive than ICE cars, e.g. MG ZS petrol, top spec B799,000 - MG ZS EV top spec B1,023,000.

[Gregjam]

It’s great to see the advances being made but I am skeptical about the range. I can fill my Terra up and drive all the way to Chiang Mai without having to fill up on a hot summers day driving conservatively. Have not heard of an EV that can realistically achieve over 600km.
Happy to admit that an EV would meet 95% of my regular needs but not economical to change a four year old vehicle given my annual max 15k mileage.

[KhunLA]

If battery technology develops so that the fire risk is greatly reduced ...
... LFP chemistry basically eliminates fire risk

costs are equivalent to ICE ...
... already same price, even cheaper

range similar to ICE (even after ten or more years) ...
... more range available now, matches ICEVs, does cost a bit more

then my concerns would be answered.
I’m probably going to be waiting a long time!
... only in your mind, as all your concerns addressed already

You can keep repeating your false statements, but still doesn't make them true

The only issue I’d challenge is the pricing - purchase price of EV’s are generally quite a bit more expensive than ICE cars, e.g. MG ZS petrol, top spec B799,000 - MG ZS EV top spec B1,023,000.

The EV version out performs and should last longer, with much less maintenance & operating cost, so money well spent for a better version than the ICEV.

MG ZS ICE is quite the bargain, and same price as other entry level 'made in TH' vehicles, and so much better than Varis (Vios) or Mazda 2. We owned all 3.

Compare the ZS EV version to other makes, B-class crossover SUVs, such as Toyota (Corolla) Cross ICE, which starts at about the same price as the ZS EV. Along with being cheaper than most imports from JP.

[Dannie Boy]

Ok, but let’s compare apples with apples, not pears - I’m not knocking EV’s but in terms of outright purchase price, equivalent cars tend to be at least 20% more expensive as an EV compared to ICE. There may well be savings over time with reduced maintenance and running costs, I’m just trying to be open and honest about prices.

[KhunLA]

For me/us, the savings to maintain & operate is the big draw. Since very low cost, it actually gets us out of the house more often.

When contracting the house build w/solar, 2022, we picked up the MG ZS (ICE). (Before the EV upgrade & govt incentive , hindsight sucks )

Picked up the ZS EV, and put 20k kms on the first year. We explore a lot more locally. Really isn't much 'new' to see, within 100-125 kms, but why not, since no need to spend money on petrol to do.

If using PEA to charge @ ฿5/kWh, it cost ฿232 per 360 kms vs ฿900 for petrol. So if going somewhere to have an nice meal or coffee & danish, a bit further then down the road, the petrol to get there & back doesn't cost more than the F&B. That really does get us out of the house more often. We charge mostly with excess solar, so basically free. Others using PEA would save ฿670 per full charge vs petrol for those 360 kms.

Just came back from Krung Thep, visiting daughter. Stayed on night, then pit stop on way back at Phetchuburi for 1 night also, while playing tourist.

Cost ฿309 at CS (charging station (no Q) vs ฿1500 that petrol would have cost for same trip. Again, advantage of solar. Leave @ 100% and returned @ 20% battery.

And yes, had to stop for 2 charging sessions. But considering never having to Q up at the petrol station every week for 10 minutes or so to fill the tank, I think we're way ahead on time to top up the vehicle, EV vs ICEV.

That 40 minute charging time is a welcome break after 3+ hrs on Thai road. I had to P, wife had to P, dog had P + place a land mine. And the lite lunch was damn tasty. Less charging time on the return trip, as didn't need nearly as much to get back home w/20% reserve.

[KhunLA]

Ok, but let’s compare apples with apples, not pears - I’m not knocking EV’s but in terms of outright purchase price, equivalent cars tend to be at least 20% more expensive as an EV compared to ICE. There may well be savings over time with reduced maintenance and running costs, I’m just trying to be open and honest about prices.

EV vs ICE version is not an apples to apples comparison.

The ZS EV is a smoother, quieter ride, and really out performs any ICE I've ever owned, including my sporty Pontiac Firebird. I pass cars in places I wouldn't consider doing if driving an ICEV. The instant torque/power when needed is impressive. And we drive in 'ECO' mode, and more than enough. I don't even bother with 'Normal' or 'Sport' mode.

Add in the savings on just petrol, over the warranty time of the battery (8 years), and that really adds up.

We would save about ฿40k for every 20k kms locally per year vs petrol, IF, we had to use PEA. For us & solar, it's about ฿53k a year, IF, local driving.

We saved over ฿37k the first year with the EV, only because almost half our kms (9300 kms) were over the road.

[Dannie Boy]

I’m talking about comparing same type cars in price comparison - you said the EV’s are the same price as ICE cars, but near identical cars are not as I showed.

You can argue the merits and de-merits as much as you want, as you and 2/cb usually do!!


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[KhunLA]

I’m talking about comparing same type cars in price comparison - you said the EV’s are the same price as ICE cars, but near identical cars are not as I showed.

You can argue the merits and de-merits as much as you want, as you and 2/cb usually do!!


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But they are not the same, the ride & performance is different. Like comparing the same ICE cars, except one has larger, more powerful, turbo charged motor. They are not going to be priced the same.

Compare the (BEVs); MG line up (cheaper/less spec'd), and BYD line up, and pricing, against something even close in quality, such as imports from JP, and the pricing is about the same, falling in the 1.2-1.6M range. In the same range, life time savings & performance can't be matched by the ICE imports from JP.

IMHO
I'd never own another ICEV after having the EV. Really is no comparison. Even the added cost of the EV over the ZS ICE, it is worth every baht extra, for ride, performance & savings. And I consider myself a 'thrifty/CC' shopper

[Dannie Boy]

Id like to reply but i just cant be bothered - you win!!


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[STEVE G]

"Goldman Sachs Research now expects battery prices to fall to $99 per kilowatt hour (kWh) of storage capacity by 2025 — a 40% decrease from 2022 (the previous forecast was for a 33% decline). Our analysts estimate that almost half of the decline will come from declining prices of EV raw materials such as lithium, nickel, and cobalt. Battery pack prices are now expected to fall by an average of 11% per year from 2023 to 2030, writes Nikhil Bhandari, co-head of Goldman Sachs Research’s Asia-Pacific Natural Resources and Clean Energy Research, in the team’s report."
https://electrek.co/2023/11/20/electric ... wn-faster/

Breaking 100USD/kWh is significant because it has been calculated that at that price, it's cheaper for society to electrify than keep using fossil fuels.