Thailand Immigration: TM30 24 hour reporting thread

[benmo]

Did 90 day report today. Spent a night in Bangkok a few weeks ago. It was never mentioned

[Dannie Boy]

Did 90 day report today. Spent a night in Bangkok a few weeks ago. It was never mentioned

I had left the country so it will be much more obvious than an overnight stay in Bangkok - did you stay at a hotel?


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[benmo]

Yes we stayed in a hotel

[europtimiste]

I never reported, except trips abroad for changing the 90 days report date.

[Dannie Boy]

I never reported, except trips abroad for changing the 90 days report date.

Neither had most people until this latest change of approach by Immigration


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[Big Boy]

Until my latest trip away to Bangkok, I had never reported after foreign trips either, but they seem to be a bit serious this time, so as it's no bother to me, I thought, "Why not?"

[europtimiste]

I never reported, except trips abroad for changing the 90 days report date.

Neither had most people until this latest change of approach by Immigration


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Let's see by next 90 days report.

[Nereus]

TM30 harassment

https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/postbag

I recently returned from overseas and went to Phuket's immigration office with a TM30 to report. The immigration officer looked at the forms and said "no good", because the power of attorney document from my landlord had to be the original and not the copied version.

I explained that my landlord lives in Bangkok and I never see him, and that my address, lease and so on are on record. With my pleas falling on deaf ears, the officer insisted that I leave and return with the proper forms. I asked if they would stamp my forms somehow to show that I had tried to report and was now going to be delayed, so as not to get a fine.

Again, deaf ears, other than to say that they would fine the landlord and not me. I have a lease at my place and submit rent money to a bank account. My landlord has no idea if I am home or away, and I certainly don't bother him by telling him about my every move.

They are not interested in address reporting and are just having fun harassing foreigners. It seems to me that this is just a ploy by big hotels and so on to try to stop ordinary Thai people from renting out their places by creating lots of paperwork for them, and the Immigration Bureau went along with it.

If they were serious about knowing where we were, they would make it simple to report without a lot of forms and photo copies and powers of attorney, etc.

A long-time resident

It will never happen here, but in a civilised country harassment and infringement of civil rights would be invoked with crap like this.

[PeteC]

Totally and completely disgusting if the writers conclusions are correct.

[Nereus]

Nothing much new here, but again, the subject is being kept on the boil:
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
Immigration Says TM30 Fix Underway, Pleads for Understanding

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crim ... rstanding/

BANGKOK — Bangkok’s immigration chief is no rookie. He’s been in the service for 35 years, but current immigration protocols have been in place even longer.

“Things were very different back then,” Maj. Gen. Patipat Suban na Ayudhaya said. “First, there weren’t so many foreign residents at the time. So the system we implemented didn’t have this many problems either.”
“When there weren’t many people, it was easy,” he said.

Patipat and his deputy Thatchapong Sarawanangkul spoke in an hour-long interview on Wednesday in response to growing confusion and complaints over the sudden enforcement of decades-old immigration rules. Regulations require expats to report to officials every time they leave the provinces of their registered address for over 24 hours – even for a vacation.

The rules, enshrined in the 1979 immigration law which has not been revised or updated since, were long laxly enforced. Maj. Gen. Patipat said he understands that many are not happy with the law, but the police have no option but to follow it.

“Some of the rules may not be modern, but we are trying to be modern now. We will not always be million-year-old turtles,” Patipat said. “But in terms of the law, we have no power to change it. It’s not under our authority … if you want change, you have to change the law.”

A Faster System

Expats living in Thailand are subject to a dizzying array of regulations. The chief complaints are over TM30 forms, which must be submitted by foreign residents or their Thai landlords to local immigration bureaus every time they leave their residence for 24 hours (and when they return).

The forms must also be submitted alongside passports or ID cards, and either house registration books (in case of houses), or land deeds or proof of sales (in case of condominiums).

Although the form can be completed online, many foreigners complain it takes weeks, or even months, to request a username and password. Patipat said even his son had to wait two weeks when trying to report guests staying in his AirBnb (“He complained about it to me!”).

However, his deputy, superintendent Thatchapong, said a new system was put in place recently, which he claims will reduce waiting times to a week or so.

Thatchapong said the problems arise from missing information. Unlike online visa applications, no “red mark” alerts applicants when they fail to complete certain information or attach required documents. Immigration officials then have to make inquiries for more information.

“Someone even sent us a selfie of himself and his Thai wife, instead of a document,” Thatchapong said.

Both men also insist information filed by foreigners and their landlords is only stored at immigration and not forwarded to any other agency, be it tax auditors or hotel law regulators.

Asked to confirm if, say, unregistered Airbnb hosts could face repercussions after submitting TM30 information, Patipat replied, “Why would we arrest them? It’s not our job. We only want to take care of foreign visitors.”

Targeting Good Guys?

The immigration bureau’s mantra of “good guys in, bad guys out” hasn’t convinced everyone, if reactions from the audience at a recent panel discussion were any indicator (“We were pretty bruised,” Thatchapong said).

Why – a common question from many expats – force “good guys” to abide by a byzantine bureaucracy when the “bad guys” would never bother to file proper TM30 documents?

Patipat conceded that criminal elements like “call center” scammers rarely enter the process at all. But the rules might still force landlords and homeowners to check their residents’ credentials and submit them to the authorities to deter any wrongdoers.

“If everyone follows the rules, it would be hard for them to base their operations in Thailand,” the major general said. “But when the rules are lax, the criminals tell each other.”

Thatchapong also said the measures ensure the authorities know where foreigners are in case of emergency, and alleviate homeowners’ worries about the identities of their guests.

Both men admit the troubles lie in the reporting process.
“I think everyone understands our reasons,” Maj. Gen. Patipat said. “If we make it convenient to obey the law, then everyone will do it.”

Stretched Thin

But the bureau might simply be too overwhelmed to meet the needs of a rapidly expanding expat community and the complexity of modern-day travels.

There are about 5,000 immigration officers around Thailand, who welcome 35 million – and growing – visitors each year.

Roughly only 250 of those officers are staffed at immigration’s Division 1, which oversees the entire expat and tourist population of Bangkok, on top of migrant workers from the Kingdom’s neighboring countries.

Patipat believes there’s a jarring disparity between the government’s priority of bringing in more tourists, and the resources it allots to the people responsible for those visitors. For instance, airport authorities have not expanded the immigration channel at Suvarnabhumi Airport for years, despite a recent boom in arrivals.

“More people are using the airport, but they don’t give us more booths, so of course there are longer lines. And who gets the blame? Immigration,” Patipat said with emotion. He added that the new Suvarnabhumi terminal being built will likely befall similar problems.

“Immigration is always the last thing they think about,” he said. Asked what the government can do to help, Bangkok’s immigration commander said more stable infrastructure is needed for efficient and smooth service.

“That, and some understanding,” Patipat said.

[Nereus]

JFCCT issues call for major TM30 review

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/ge ... 5#cxrecs_s

The Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT) yesterday proposed a significant review of the Immigration Bureau's draconian TM30 reporting requirement for foreign students, retirees and expatriates due to its negative impacts, and has urged deeper regulatory reform over the medium to long term.

While the majority of foreigners who enter Thailand as tourists are exempt, most of those who are in possession of longer-stay visas have to report any changes of address within 24 hours. This applies even if they visit other provinces on short breaks or are returning to Thailand from holidays or business trips abroad.

Chairman of the JFCCT, Stanley Kang, stated: "The immigration form TM30, or 24-hour reporting, places an onus on property owners and lessors [Thais as well as foreigners] to report the movements of foreigners using such properties. As can be seen in the press, there is much unhappiness with the current TM30 requirement, both from foreigners and Thai citizens, which has caused some unfortunately negative views about Thailand both as an investment and 'doing business' location, and as a tourism destination. This need not be so."

The TM30 requirement is an old law that has been on the books for decades but from March 25 this year, immigration authorities began enforcing it with renewed vigour, including to the point where a correctly completed TM30 is a precondition to getting long-term visas renewed. This has angered many foreign long-stayers.

Even though the TM30 form should be submitted to immigration by the landlord or property owner, foreigners tend to shoulder the burden as in practice they are the ones who actually pay the fines, which range from 800 to 2,000 baht per offence.

The regulation, which was imposed in the 1979 Immigration Act, is ostensibly to boost national security. Given the increasing risk from terrorism, the bureau says it has also come across numerous cases of foreign criminals making extended stays in-country; hence the crackdown.

On this note, Mr Kang said: "Ease of doing business is a hallmark of any nation's attractiveness for trade, investment and tourism. We commend the government for positive steps in 'ease of doing business'. Currently TM30 is undoing those good achievements. Our neighbours do not have this continuous tracking requirement."

Mr Kang also stated: "While no-one would wish to remove tools which can effectively prevent harmful criminal behaviour, this particular form does not seem to be the best way to do this as it relies on self-disclosure. Also many cases [for example those with work permits and business visas are already well covered. Finally there is overlap with another part of the Immigration Act about inter-provincial travel. Thus, we have made specific recommendations about review and changes to reduce scope and make it user-friendly."

Mr Kang also noted "In the medium to long term, we urge regulatory reform. We understand that the Guillotine Unit [Simple and Smart Licence project] has recommended the removal of TM30 in the interests of the Thai economy and ease of doing business. JFCCT supports this."

[REEM]

We are being asked to scan documents such as passports, house title deeds and identity cards and upload them to a Thai Immigration website, how secure is the website and what protection do we have should the website be hacked and our identity details stolen.

[hhinner]

A cynic might suggest that you don't need to worry about hacking. Your documents will possibly be printed out to get several signatures on a validation workflow sequence after which they will be recycled and feature on the backs of various other forms.

[Big Boy]

We are being asked to scan documents such as passports, house title deeds and identity cards and upload them to a Thai Immigration website, how secure is the website and what protection do we have should the website be hacked and our identity details stolen.

Are you all Farang? I'd heard they were being extra vigilant with Farang owners.

When I registered Mrs BB, all that was required was for me to provide a scan of 2 blue book pages.

[laphanphon]

We are being asked to scan documents such as passports, house title deeds and identity cards and upload them to a Thai Immigration website, how secure is the website and what protection do we have should the website be hacked and our identity details stolen.

All of which, they already have copies of, along the every other entity we deal with; hotels, phone company, internet, banking, licensing bureau, member cards, hosp, docs, clinics, BTS / MRT travel pass.

Whatever copies we all keep on our computers or devices, all out there for hackers, if they want.

Immigration would be the least of my concerns.
I can't be bothered worrying about the little things....