Tips for recycling and reducing plastic use in Thailand

[HHTel]

The Shame

We forgot to take our 'forever' bags to Tesco today. "Never mind," I said, "We'll buy some more for today's shopping." They'd sold out of the 'forever' bags. OK, the new paper bags it would have to be.

We got to the checkout, and it was one-use plastic bag business as usual.

So everything I reported reading about paper bags at Tesco seems to have been fake news.

I think the initiative was only in BKK.

[MDMK]

And as for filling up my limited freezer space with a box full of wet waste... I'm not even sure what that's supposed to achieve, anyway.

what it achieves is it stops your kitchen (home) reeking of food waste - unless of course you take it downstairs multiple times per day. I can't abide the smell of food waste inside my house, which happens very quickly in warmer climates.

If you recycle everything that is recyclable, all you have left is very small amounts of food waste. Even if you don't compost it and just chuck it, you still have it. Assuming because you live in a condo that more than likely the number of people in your household is quite small, then you won't generate much food waste so the container needed is no bigger than an ice-cream tub.

But it's obvious you have no interest in trying to reduce your waste beyond what you do already. Why not just say that instead of trying to knock an initiative that has proven to work very well in every country it has been introduced? I am sure if millions of people in multiple countries can work out how to line their bins without using single-use plastic bags, you could too, if you wanted to, which you obviously don't.

And that's fine, it's your prerogative, just don't play the "I have no other choice" card when there are plenty of other very easy choices you could make.

[MDMK]

For society and the environment, yes, plastic bags need banning. Paper will break down in a fraction of the time that plastic does.

For you personally, obviously a no as you're seeking excuses not to change your habits and ridiculing any suggestions given to you.

As said above - people are as much the problem as the plastic is. This is why the decision should be taken away from them by enforcing an outright ban as many countries already have done.

Back when it was forced on us by the government (not just banning single-use plastic bags in shops, but enforced splitting and recycling of all household waste), I did a bit of foot stamping much in the same way Pleng is doing now. But you are so right, the decision does need to be taken out of the hands of individuals. I wish I had kept pics of what my weekly landfill rubbish bin looked like 15 yrs ago and what it looks like now. I guess it's gone down by around 95%. The environmental enforcers from the council were in our street yesterday and 2 neighbours were fined Euro90 (+ - 3300thb) each for relatively small infringements (plastic in the paper waste bin kind of thing). It's amazing how a fine like that can help people get over their insurmountable hurdles to recycling.

[handdrummer]

For dry goods I use cloth bags, the same as I did in Europe in the early '60's. I usually shop at Makro and a lot of the fruits and veges aren't watered, which still leaves the fish & meat.
Another difference between now and then is then I lived within walking distance of everything I needed. In Europe they have neighborhoods and all one's daily needs can be purchased there. Also public transportation is available to go anywhere you want if you need something out of the neighborhood. Here I have to use my car to go anywhere and do anything so I tend to shop less often and need more bags to carry the goods. Most of the time I can't get everything I want at one store so meats and fish need to be put on ice till I get home. There's no one solution here for everyone. For some composting can't be done, for others their freezer is too small to accommodate food and garbage. I think that most of us are looking for solutions and criticism doesn't contribute anything. Ideas are always helpful and some of them may be put into practice. Other's aren't feasible. Try to be understanding and realize that one size doesn't fit all.

[Nereus]

Biodegradable bags may not be all that you are lead to believe. Although it appears that they can be manufactured without using petroleum based additives, how they are disposed of is a big part of ensuring they are in fact "biodegradable".

Some research has found that in some cases they are even worse because some of them degrade into micro plastics, which are even more harmful, especially to humans and in particular fish.

https://packagingeurope.com/are-biodegr ... vironment/

http://www.pepctplastics.com/resources/ ... -plastics/

[Takiap]

My MIL and FIL who live here with me keep all plastic waste to sell, along with things such as glass, steel, aluminium; cardboard and etc. Wet waste is virtually nonexistent at our place because our army of chickens and ducks swoop in on just about any wet waste which it thrown out in the garden. It gets devoured in seconds as do any insects who happen to get spotted.

[RCer]

I was pleased to see no plastic bags at the checkouts in Tesco yesterday. Wife wasn't to happy about it though.

[Pleng]

For you personally, obviously a no as you're seeking excuses not to change your habits and ridiculing any suggestions given to you.

I'm not seeking excuses. I've posted legitimate reasons as to why I can't or won't make the changes suggested. I'm not going to sit in an apartment with an ever increasing pile of compost that I have no use for. I'm not going to go out and search for biodegradable bags just for them to go inside a great big non-degradable bag, I already recycle plastic bottles, and I still don't even understand why I should take up half my freezer with a box of sludge?

As said above - people are as much the problem as the plastic is.

I agree 100%.

This is why the decision should be taken away from them by enforcing an outright ban as many countries already have done.

I agree 100%. But just banning them in supermarkets isn't going to solve anything as long as people are lining their bins with plastic bags.

[Pleng]

And as for filling up my limited freezer space with a box full of wet waste... I'm not even sure what that's supposed to achieve, anyway.

what it achieves is it stops your kitchen (home) reeking of food waste - unless of course you take it downstairs multiple times per day. I can't abide the smell of food waste inside my house, which happens very quickly in warmer climates.

If you recycle everything that is recyclable, all you have left is very small amounts of food waste. Even if you don't compost it and just chuck it, you still have it. Assuming because you live in a condo that more than likely the number of people in your household is quite small, then you won't generate much food waste so the container needed is no bigger than an ice-cream tub.

Ok that's fair enough. But, as you say, my food waste is limited, and there's a garbage room that I can throw it away in at least daily if needs be. An ice cream tub sized container would still take up about a quarter of the room in my freezer so that's a no go. I could certainly leave it in the fridge and empty it once a day, though.

But it's obvious you have no interest in trying to reduce your waste beyond what you do already. Why not just say that instead of trying to knock an initiative that has proven to work very well in every country it has been introduced?

All I said was that it doesn't go far enough.

I am sure if millions of people in multiple countries can work out how to line their bins without using single-use plastic bags, you could too, if you wanted to, which you obviously don't.

But all my small plastic bags end up in a big plastic bag - so there's really no point for me. The point I was trying to raise, which seems to be wasted, is that just by banning bags in the supermarket you're not going to suddenly make people start worrying about biodegrading bags. The issue, as I understand it, is landfill. And as long as people are still lining their bins with plastic bags then you haven't solved the problem.

And that's fine, it's your prerogative, just don't play the "I have no other choice" card when there are plenty of other very easy choices you could make.

I came with a cross of "I have no choice", "I can't be bothered" and "I have no need" in my answers. I think they were straight-up enough.

[MDMK]

Handrummer,

I think the point being discussed was, if left to the individual it will never happen on a big scale, as each individual will have their own reasons why it's too difficult to do x - or impossible to do y - or they don't have the time to do z - or the space to do this - or the car to do that. However, when a hefty fine is hanging above your head it's amazing how quick all those "can't possibly do that because" all just disappear into thin air. I was no different to many. I didn't recycle anywhere near what I could have done until I was forced to.

I am not forcing anyone to recycle or to reduce their waste, but some of the excuses on this thread are just that. Excuses.

At least when I was a environmental nightmare I just admitted I couldn’t be arsed, that it was all too much effort for me.

I live in a city that has reduced it's landfill deposits by around 90% in the last 20 years. That's not because us inhabitants are eco-warriors or nice people, it's because we pay very heavy fines if we don't. And it’s only a matter of time before “pay per kilo” for waste will be introduced at hefty tariffs.

There are thousands of areas in Europe that are much further from shopping areas than anyone in Hua Hin is. There are whole swathes of Europe that don’t have any public transport at all or 1 bus per day if they are lucky, or they have to walk miles to get to the bus stop, and public transport here is FAR from 10 baht per trip.

Pleng was given suggestions (solutions) many of which he ridiculed or declared unworkable. They are not unworkable in the slightest, just more.... where there’s a will there is a way.

I have pleasantly shocked myself at how easy it actually is to separate waste and massively reduce landfill waste.

If people don’t want to do it I am fine with that. However, where I see feeble excuses I will point them out for what they are.

I know one size never fits all, but I also know many people just can’t be arsed to make much of an effort for the environment, and it’s not understanding those people need, it’s sanctions and fines. I was one of them, and I know the threat worked with me. No amount of understanding would ever have worked half as well as “do it properly or get a Euro100 fine”.

Pleng,

I am not knocking you, I was you for years until my government stepped in and forced me to step up to the plate. The food waste is a bit of a non-issue because it’s biodegradable it’s about the “best” waste there is (least damaging to environment). I just liked PeteC’s freezer idea as it works for me and just put it out there as an idea that might work for others. Back to lining bins. I don’t line bins because I have no rubbish that isn’t dry and clean. So I have no need for bin liners. Cans and bottles and plastic containers and all other food containers/cartons/paper get recycled. The only “dirty” rubbish is food waste. We are a two people household, we have the tub in the freezer thing, but a small Tupperware lidded container on the counter top could be used, rinsed with water when emptied, no need to line with plastic. How Europe has worked the plastic bag thing is basically to start charging for them. I pay 50 cents (almost 20baht) for a plastic bag in a supermarket here. At that price Bill Gates couldn’t afford to line his bin with them. And I agree with you, just banning or charging for plastic bags isn’t enough, we need multi-pronged approaches… carrots and sticks, incentives and fines. But all changes begin with baby steps. Each of us individually CAN make a big difference if we put in a bit of effort. And the effort really isn’t difficult. I spent more time and energy making up excuses why I couldn’t possibly reduce my landfill waste by 90% than I have actually spent doing it.

I know you said something along the lines of "no point me not using my small plastic bag as my small plastic bag just goes into a big plastic bag anyway". Just say you adopted my way of doing it, you would save the planet roughly 365 plastic bags a year. If 100 households in your condo copied you, that would be what ... 36,500 annually. To me that's a massive figure. But yes there would still be 365 big plastic bags but at least the 36500 small ones would be saved. It's a small step, but many small steps = big difference.

[PeteC]

I read somewhere that by 2050, 60% + of the world's population will be living in urban areas. To me that means high rise condos and apartments.

I would think that anything over four floors have garbage chutes and pose a completely new set of problems.

Composting is out of the question which means all wet garbage and everything else just gets bagged and thrown down the chute. I would hope each building has staff that sorts things at the bottom but reality is that it probably all goes into a truck and to a land fill.

Any high rise dwellers here or abroad can tell us what rules/steps are in place regarding sorting and recycling?

[laphanphon]

I may be naive, but the only difference I see, if the total ban ever goes into effect, is I'll have to buy plastic bags, vs using the ones 7-11 and Tesco Lotus give me, for my bin liners.

All of which, will still make it to the landfill, and or be dumped in the sea. The one noticeable change, hopefully, is there will be less roadside litter, and that's only cosmetic, as littering plastic bags aren't exactly the environmental crisis, it's just ugly.

[lindosfan1]

laphanphon stated

littering plastic bags aren't exactly the environmental crisis, it's just ugly.

Plastic bags amongst all other plastic items are causing a lot of damage to the world.
Animals are dying all down to plastic.
What you stated was totally ridiculous.

[laphanphon]

That's one opinion.

Agree the dumping in the seas, animals eating, especially turtles at risk, but no so much on land.

Surely not enough to ban the use, or distribution of at stores. As plastic bags aren't banned, they're just not given out for free.

Main problem, especially here, is the gov't disposal of them. Obviously, a good portion of the trash is still dumped at sea, without being ground to small particles, as cruise ships are supposed to do.

On that..........does anyone actually know where our trash goes, especially from Hua Hin ? Since I don't believe there is a eco friendly trash incinerator to energy plant in the area.

Where is it being trucked to, or the landfills at. Hopefully not all getting dumped in the Gulf.

Is Thap Tai landfill still in use, or max'd out, and trucked elsewhere ?

[laphanphon]

Are they still using the landfill over by Fort Thanarat Thai Army base ?

Hua Hin supposedly generates over 150 tons of rubbish a day (2016 numbers)

Let's be honest here, as very little that gets 'recycled' is actually recycled. Not just Thailand, but worldwide.

USA for example, supposedly, only recycles < 10 % that is actually recyclable. And every household / town recycles, or fined rather heavily. It simply ends up in a landfill, or gets incinerated, and hopefully at an eco friendly energy plant.

"It’s just one sliver of the massive pollution problem in Asia. China, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, and Vietnam are dumping more plastic into oceans than the rest of the world combined , according to a 2017 report by Ocean Conservancy. This isn’t just an Asia problem. Plastic is one of the greatest environmental challenges facing the world. The U.S. wasted about 33.6 million tons of plastic, and only 9.5% was recycled."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahleun ... b9fb181234

With the exception of beer bottles, some glass, does anyone really think what is collected / sold as recycled here is actually recycled ???

Seems most efforts are for not, since the gov't, with all the fluff in the press, does nothing but dumps it at sea anyway.