Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Local Hua Hin and regional Thailand news articles and discussion.
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Vital Spark
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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by Vital Spark » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:47 pm

I feel sorry for the women who had to go such a traumatic experience of aborting a baby after being 6 or 8 months preganant. I would guess that they didn't choose that option on a whim, and probably thought long and hard before going ahead with it. Yes, they should have made that decision months ago, but they were probably not aware of other options available earlier, and, possibly, couldn't talk to anyone about it.

The clinic behind the Cabbages and Condoms restaurant in Bangkok (Suk. Soi 12) offers free advice and abortions to pregnant women. Sadly, it's not publicised and vulnerable women resort to using this kind of clinic.

Nobody should be arrested for providing this kind of service. Can you imagine what kind of life an unwanted child would have here without a network of child support or counselling?

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by Bamboo Grove » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:08 pm

Good post, VS. I just can't understand the anti-abortionists.
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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:40 pm

The clinic behind the Cabbages and Condoms restaurant in Bangkok (Suk. Soi 12) offers free advice and abortions to pregnant women. Sadly, it's not publicised and vulnerable women resort to using this kind of clinic.

Nobody should be arrested for providing this kind of service. Can you imagine what kind of life an unwanted child would have here without a network of child support or counselling?
Agree 100% VS. Abortion/termination has been available in Thailand (legally) for quite some time now. The problem is that the law is not promoted/publicised for fear of upsetting the temples etc. There are quite a few licenced clinics but only a few hospitals. Many hospitals have not applied for a licence due to the feelings of individual doctors.
I read a post recently of one woman having a termination at Bumingrad Hospital. She was charged a small fortune and made to feel very ashamed. The procedure was done but was done with no compassion whatsoever.
The majority of Thais still believe it's illegal and that was backed up by an article in The Nation (am I able to quote them?). If the government will not promote the law and certain media completely misinform, then it's not surprising that these back street butchers are able to operate.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by Takiap » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:51 am

I am certainly not anti-abortion, but at eight months into a pregnancy, it is a baby in every sense of the word, apart from the fact that it has not been delivered yet.


I also don't entirely agree with the notion that most Thai women are still unaware of the law regarding abortions. My own wife wanted to get her pregnancy terminated a few years ago, almost immediately after she missed her time of the month and a test confirmed she was pregnant. A quick phone call to her Mom, and a day or two later she had to visit a hospital in Bangkok where she was given a pill and job done. Last year my BIL's girlfriend got pregnant, and again, as soon as she knew she was pregnant, she too went for the same type of pill, but as far as I know, she got it from one of the local hospitals here in HH.


Please nobody misinterpret any of the above. I'm simply saying that while the legal status might not be promoted and/or advertised, let's not forget that the Thai have been using the good old bamboo telephone long before the internet arrived, and they continue to do so.


Anyway, despite what my comments might suggest, I am actually pro-abortion, but definitely not at such a late stage.
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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:38 pm

Agreed Takiap. I would contradict the fact that most Thais know the law. When my stepdaughter was pregnant with her third child and struggling to cope with the two she had, I suggested a termination. My stepdaughter actually would have gone along with that but everyone in the family, including her mother (my wife) told her it was illegal. She went on to have the baby in spite of me giving her all the info that I had to hand.
I think the situation is not necessarily not knowing but not agreeing and therefore convincing themselves that it's illegal.
If everyone had the info then these 'illegal clinics' wouldn't exist.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by GroveHillWanderer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:50 pm

HHTel wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:40 pm
The majority of Thais still believe it's illegal and that was backed up by an article in The Nation (am I able to quote them?). If the government will not promote the law and certain media completely misinform, then it's not surprising that these back street butchers are able to operate.
Actually the most recent article I saw in the Nation was more or less correct (though it got some of the details on the exceptions to the law wrong as it left out the 2005 changes). I suppose it's somewhat a case of how you look at it (is the glass half-empty or half-full) but according to the law abortion in Thailand is, in the first instance, illegal. Thailand's Criminal Code, Section 301 says that:
Any woman, causing herself to be aborted or allowing the other person to procure the abortion for herself, shall be imprisoned not more than three years or fined not more than six thousand Baht, or both.
The next two sections detail the penalties for anyone who procures an abortion for a woman either with or without her consent (5 and 7 years in prison respectively - or a fine, or both).

However the following sections list a number of exceptions, giving situations in which the penalties can be avoided. The procedure must be carried out by a (licensed) medical practitioner and even then, only if the health of the woman is threatened or the pregnancy is the result of a criminal offence such as rape or incest. Apparently for many years, the 'health of the woman' provision was interpreted as meaning the physical health only. Then, according to a ruling made in 2005, the exception was broadened to include when the woman's mental or emotional health is threatened.

So while you could say it's a technical distinction I still think it's more accurate to say that in principle abortion is illegal in Thailand but that there are (fairly broadly defined) exceptions to the law that should make it relatively easy to have or procure an abortion without breaking the law.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:54 pm

I'm firmly with VS on this one. Of course I don't "agree" with abortions at 6 or 8 months, no one in their right mind would. However any woman who goes to some dodgy clinic for an abortion at so late a stage must be in a hell of a situation. No one would do that on a whim, they'd have to be in a pretty desperate situation to take a drastic step like this. I also imagine that such a late stage abortion is riddled with risks for the woman's health as well, more proof to me that these decisions would never have been taken lightly. I haven't walked in those shoes, so I wouldn't be too quick to judge those that have.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:26 pm

Not sure if this link has been posted already but an interesting read:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2017 ... y-thought/

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:19 pm

HHTel wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:26 pm
Not sure if this link has been posted already but an interesting read:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2017 ... y-thought/
17yr old mother, boyfriend in prison on drugs charges, she is 8 months pregnant and takes pills to abort as she sees no other way out. Desperate young girl takes desperate measures. We can condemn these girls all we want, but we will make more of these abortions happen if we do. If we really want to stop late abortions like this then we have to take the whole abortion debate in to the open. Women who seek abortions have to stop being vilified by the wider society. It's because it's such a taboo that these late illegal abortions happen. Making the taboo bigger will make the problem bigger.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 pm

Absolutely agree MDMK. I'm sure these late abortions (and from the report there was one at 8 months) are the result of 'desperation' and 'not knowing where to turn'. If the subject was discussed openly in Thai society and the government, and the options were made known publicly, then this kind of thing wouldn't/shouldn't happen.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:29 pm

yep, pure and utter desperation HHTel. Everyone reading the report in the original post must be horrified, it is horrific, a baby born at 8 months can easily survive outside the womb with little or no medical intervention

I just wish people.... before they condemn the mothers who do these things, or the doctors who help them, they have to ask themselves if the doctors weren't there would the mother just carry on with her pregnancy, give birth, and happily rear that baby for 18 yrs, both mother and child happy ever after .... or would it be back to "gin and a knitting needle" days of DIY home abortions? As much as the original post made my stomach turn, I would rather young vulnerable girls (and desperate women of any age) be helped by a dodgy doctor in a dodgy clinic than left to their own devices.

better still, we (society as a whole) need to do everything we can to make abortion safe, legal and above all accessible - and we need to verbally "slap-down" any person (politician, religious, whatever) on their soap box rattling on about how immoral abortion is.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by Nereus » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:49 pm

I am not condemning or approving what has or may have happened, but if the foetus was in fact 8 months, nowhere has it been suggested that it may have been still born. I know nothing about the procedure, so does that mean the foetus is dead before it is removed?

My granddaughter was born 8 weeks premature and apart from about 10 days in the ICU as she only weighed 1,780 grams, she was fully developed.
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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:16 pm

The law says that a pregnancy can be terminated up to 28 weeks. I'm sure I've read stories of babies being born before this and survived.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by MDMK » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:15 pm

HHtel, I am pretty sure nowadays they use the word "viable" from about 26 weeks gestation (might even be earlier).

Nereus, I have no idea how the abortion in the original article took place. Was it chemical (with a pill) or was it an internal procedure like a D&C or induction of labour? No idea. And I am not sure I want to know. The article HHTel posted about the 17 yr old girl arrested for the same "crime", she took an abortion pill. I have no idea how they work, I assume the fetus is still born, I also don't think there is any "nice or kind" way of terminating at this late stage. I am assuming any way will be gruesome.

I just think as gruesome as something like this is, and it IS tragic... the alternative is no less tragic. Do we want to go back to gin and knitting needles, or "falls" down flights of stairs, or kids being born to women who are as good as forced into motherhood? I really do think the only way to stop these late abortions is not by attacking or criminalizing either the women or their doctors, but to make early abortions legal, safe, accessible and free of stigma and taboo.

Oh and yes and absolutely a 8 birth at months gestation isn't even noteworthy nowadays in regards to any extra care the baby may need. 4 or 5 weeks early is nothing, not when babies of under 30 weeks gestation routinely survive.

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Re: Human fetuses found among household garbage in Hua Hin

Post by HHTel » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:34 am

HHtel, I am pretty sure nowadays they use the word "viable" from about 26 weeks gestation (might even be earlier).
No argument. Just pointing out the law allows termination up to 28 weeks.
The article HHTel posted about the 17 yr old girl arrested for the same "crime", she took an abortion pill.
That was one sentence in a long article which was mainly about the safety, legality and availability of abortion in Thailand.
I have no idea how the abortion in the original article took place. And I am not sure I want to know.
Like you, I really don't want to know how it was done.

Albeit to say, abortion is available in Thailand which is safe and legal. Instead of denying the law exists, the public should be made aware of the options.

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