Retirement visa wih US passport question

[JimmyD]

I moved to Thailand 1 year 8 months ago with an O-A visa obtained from the Thai embassy in the U.S. Last year I visited the U.S., returned less than 1 year after the visa was issued and received a 1 year extension without providing proof of pension or 800,000B in a Thai bank account. Last month I visited the US again, returned and based on the date put on the passport entry stamp by Thai immigration at the Bangkok airport (July 2016) it looks like they have extended my visa for yet another year with no requirement to provide proof of income. Does this sound correct and, if so, why? Thanks.

[lomuamart]

We need to know when the original OA visa expired (s) and what date you were stamped into after returning the first time. (It must surely have expired my now??
If your visa had already expired before you returned the second time then you shouldn't have got another year and it will be best to sort this out with Imm or you could be facing a large overstay fine despite the mistake not having been yours.
If you've been stamped in until the date allowed from your first re-entry then that's OK. In that case you must have got a separate re-entry permit before you left to keep your permitted to stay date alive.
As already said, give us the expiry date of your visa and your two permitted to stay stamps when you've re-entered and we can advise further.
If Imm have made a mistake, then you'll have only been entitled to a stay of 30 days when you last came back.
FYI, there's no need to supply financial information or anything else when entering on a visa. Those requirements are only necessary if you apply for an annual extension here in Thailand or when you first got the OA visa back in The States.

[JimmyD]

My O-A multiple entry visa was issued by the Thai embassy in the US on 1/11/13 with an "enter before date" of 31/10/14. I entered Thailand on 30/12/13 and admitted until 29/12/14. I departed on 7/8/14 to visit the US and returned on 4/9/14. On entry I was given a new 'admitted until' date of 3/9/15. I did 90 day reporting multiple times at HH immigration and nothing was said about the 3/9/15 date. On 2/6/15 I visited the US again and returned on 15/7/15. On entry into Thailand I was again given a new 'admitted until' date of 13/7/16; effectively extending the O-A visa for yet another year. Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

[Dannie Boy]

My O-A multiple entry visa was issued by the Thai embassy in the US on 1/11/13 with an "enter before date" of 31/10/14. I entered Thailand on 30/12/13 and admitted until 29/12/14. I departed on 7/8/14 to visit the US and returned on 4/9/14. On entry I was given a new 'admitted until' date of 3/9/15. I did 90 day reporting multiple times at HH immigration and nothing was said about the 3/9/15 date. On 2/6/15 I visited the US again and returned on 15/7/15. On entry into Thailand I was again given a new 'admitted until' date of 13/7/16; effectively extending the O-A visa for yet another year. Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

By the sound of it, you haven't been back to immigration to extend your original visa - correct?

[JimmyD]

That is correct. I was under the impression that I did not need to do so until it got near the 'admitted until' date put in my passport when I entered the country. I had been told by a friend who also lives here on an O-A visa that it would be extended after my 1st visit to the US since I was returning to Thailand prior to the "enter before date" on the visa stamp itself. So I thought nothing about the 1st extension to 3/9/15. However, when I left and came back again last month I expected the date to remain the same but it was extended for another year. At this point I became concerned. Again, I have gone to HH immigration many times for 90 day reporting and several months ago even asked the officer if there were any requirements other than a Thai bank account w/ 800,000b, which I established 6 months ago in preparation for 3/9/15. Am I now in big trouble even though I have tried to do everything I knew to abide by the rules?

[Dannie Boy]

I'm sure the resident expert lomumart will be in contact soon, but your original assumptions are correct in that if you leave and then return while your original visa is still valid, they give you a further 12 months stay from the date of your return, but then that should be it. Hopefully because it was immigrations mistake, there won't be any serious implications.

I'd wait for Lomu to respond, but would suggest a visit to immigration to explain what has happened should be your next move. Let us know how things go.

[JimmyD]

Ok...yesterday I went to HH immigration and was told that BKK immigration had made a mistake and should only have given me a 30 day tourist visa. In other words, my non-immigrant o-a visa is now null and void since I wasn't smart enough to understand that when they extended my 'admitted until date' last year because I left and returned prior to the visa's 'enter before' date that did not extend the multiple entry portion of my visa. Since I failed to obtain a re-entry permit prior to my departure this year my o-a visa is effectively cancelled.

I was fined 2500b for overstay and required to pay an additional 1900b to extend what is now a tourist visa for an additional 30 days. I must leave the country within 30 days and when I return will be issued another 30 day tourist visa. The first week after my return (becuase it takes 15 days to process) I must request a 90 day entension. Within that 90 days I must then request a 1 year extension.

Sweet... welcome to Thailand James.

[Ratsima]

Your visa wasn't cancelled it expired.

[JimmyD]

How could it have expired when I had an 'admitted until' date of 3/9/15 (Sep 3, 2015) before I went to the US in June of this year? That date will not arrive until about 2 weeks from now.

[Ratsima]

Visas are issued by the Ministry of Foreign affairs. Your visa expired on October 31, 2014. Visas cannot ordinarily be extended.

Permission to stay is granted by Immigration when you enter Thailand. Immigration can extend your stay, something that regularly happens with those of us who are permitted to stay here because of retirement or marriage.

Once your visa expired you needed a re-entry permit to return and continue to use your previously granted permission to stay. You didn't get one and Immigration made a mistake when they granted you permission to stay until July 13, 2016. It baffles me that you were forced to pay for their mistake. TIT

The terminology is both important and widely misused, which leads to confusion like yours. Even Immigration refers to "Visa Extension" when legally there is no such thing. Extension of stay, yes. Extension of visa, no.

[lomuamart]

Any permitted to stay date can exist past the visa's validity date as happened in the OP's case. Essentially, a visa is only an invitation to enter a country. The important stamp in your passport is the permitted to stay date and that's determined by the Imm officer on your arrival.
Because the OP's visa was multi entry he would have got another year's permitted to stay date every time he re-entered the country - whilst the visa was valid. Any exit after the visa expired would have needed a re-entry permit to keep the existing, current permitted to stay date alive. On re-entry, he should have been stamped in until that permitted to stay date.
I agree it's a bit harsh to fine someone for others' mistakes but it is the responsibility of the passport holder to check that the date they've been given is correct. Imm quite frequently get dates wrong and either give you not enough or too much time. Always be aware of what you should be entitled to and check the date before you move away from the desk. It's much easier to rectify mistakes there and then rather than later.

[Ratsima]

Isn't that pretty much exactly what I said?

[JimmyD]

Thank you both for the clarification. I wish I had understood much earlier. So the 'enter before date' on visas should really say 'visa expiration date'. And all those who talk about staying in Thailand long term on an o-a visa are incorrect. An o-a visa merely allows people 50 years and older with proof of income to enter Thailand and receive a 1 year extension of stay. After that they are merely allowed to stay here for 1 year intervals based on their continual application for extensions of stay. No one is actually living here long term on an o-a visa.

[JimmyD]

I plan to visit Siem Reap Cambodia next week for 6 nights and then attempt to return to Thailand to clear my 'overstay' status, apply for a 90 day extension and then a 1 year extension of stay. Based on what I have described, does anyone think I might NOT be allowed back into Thailand after leaving for only 6 days? That is now my primary concern. Thank you.

[lomuamart]

Isn't that pretty much exactly what I said?

Yup and as I said would happen in my original post.
To the OP, you shouldn't worry. Go out of the country, get the required visa, re-enter and go through the process again.