The Rugby Thread

[pharvey]

Well, somewhat one-sided

I did however enjoy watching the exhibition and as DM (pissed or not) says, there were some great pieces of flowing rugby. There were also some good displays from fringe players such as Richie Gray who may well have played himself into a test spot. North again had a great game as did BOD and Stuart Hogg at Fly-half which could mix things up a bit.

Next up are the Waratahs on Saturday, where once again the Australian squad members will not be available Still, it will be a far sterner test than it was today.......

[pharvey]

An interesting snippet of information I came across in a news report regarding British Lions representatives making a visit to the grave of the first British Lions touring captain.....

Times and tours have certainly changed!!


On Tuesday morning, in Telarah, near Maitland, New South Wales, Sam Warburton stood at the final resting place of Robert Seddon.

Seddon, 125 years ago, was the first man to captain the Lions on their inaugural tour – and tragically he never returned home.

Alongside team-mate Manu Tuilagi, tour manager Andy Irvine, chairman of the Lions board Gerald Davies and chief executive John Feehan, Warburton laid a wreath for his former comrade who drowned in the Hunter River during the Lions’ 1888 tour of Australia.

Watching on were officials from Maitland Rugby Club, which has graciously tended Seddon’s grave since his death at the age of 28.

“This is a guy who has passed away in tragic circumstances thousands of miles from home while he was on tour,” Maitland Rugby Club vice-president Ben Emmett said yesterday.

“If the circumstances were reversed I’m sure there may well be someone in Britain who would take care of the Australian player’s grave.”

The current crop of 37 tourists have a mere 10-game schedule this summer.

Seddon’s travelling party of 22 were away from home for 249 days on their marathon tour of Australia and New Zealand, the journey to Dunedin alone taking 46 days.

The Class of 1888 spent seven weeks at sea before they reached their destination, passing the time by using catapults to fire at passing albatrosses.

They travelled on SS Kaikoura with 300 stoats and weasels – their rodent companions were being taken down under for the destruction of rabbits.

And although the current HSBC adverts on TV, which show squad members careering around the ship decks playing rugby were not inaccurate at the time, such scenes were short-lived following the loss overboard of the touring party’s only two rugby balls.

In 21 weeks, the Lions played 54 games, although only 35 of those were rugby matches, 27 of which they won.

They also played 19 games of Victorian Rules football, a forerunner of today’s Australian Rules and a cricket match was thrown in for good measure.

They won six, despite having little clue about the rules or the tactics.

And from their very first match the Lions captured the public imagination.

The Otago Witness newspaper reported the buzz they created.

“For the first time in history a team of rugby footballers have come over the seas some 16,000 miles to play a series of matches in the colonies,” the paper reported.

“It was predicted that the crowd would be the largest ever seen on an Otago football field and so it turned out to be for the numbers that crammed the stand and line the chains around the playing arena four deep were quite unprecedented.

“Small boys and men who could not afford to pay clambered on to the top of adjacent fences and one or two buildings in the vicinity of the gasworks were black with spectators.

“The sum of £350 was taken at the gates and it is estimated that nearly 8,000 persons witnessed the match.”

In Australia, captain Robert Seddon gave what is considered the first in-depth Lions press interview.

In a piece entitled: A Chat With Captain Seddon in the Otago Witness he touched on Aussie rules football: “Our fellows seemed to rather like it”; and accusations of rough play at Wellington: “Considering that up to half time four of our men had been carried out of the field I think the roughness was on the other side.”

The journalist deemed Seddon – who was born in Salford and combined his sport with working in a woollen factory – as a “capital conversationalist”.

Just over a month later Seddon drowned in an accident on the River Hunter in New South Wales.

In Greg Thomas’ updating of his father Clem’s official history of the Lions, he gives the following account: “Seddon’s accident occurred the morning after the side had been beaten by nine goals to four by Northern Districts in a Victorian rules match in Maitland.

“Seddon, Stoddart and Anderton stayed behind while the rest of the tour party headed by train for nearby Newcastle to prepare for a rugby union match two days later.

“They wanted to spend some leisure time on the river, and while Seddon chose an outrigger, the other two shared a skiff.

“Despite being an experienced sculler and being in the prime of his life at 28, Seddon got into difficulties quite quickly.

“He was wearing his red, white and blue team jersey, flannel trousers and shoes.

“His feet were strapped to the footrest and, when the outrigger capsized some 200 yards from the clubhouse he was unable to free himself.

“He was seen struggling in the water, twice attempting to swim on his back, but after sinking for a second time he drowned.

“His team mates were unaware of what had happened at first.”

The Australian press reported that Seddon had “made himself exceedingly popular during the time he had been in the colonies and his death has caused a painful sensation in athletic circles in Sydney”.

He was laid to rest in West Maitland, where his funeral attracted a huge turnout, including 160 Australian rugby players who accompanied the hearse in their respective club colours.

Seddon’s team mates, meanwhile, were devastated but decided to complete the tour as a tribute to their captain.

The 20th rugby match on the schedule, against the Northern Districts at Newcastle Cricket Ground was postponed but eventually played on August 29.

The Lions won 14-7, despite fielding only 11 players as the others had already sailed back to New Zealand to complete the now ill-fated tour.

When the entire party left Australia, it was the members of the Maitland Rugby Club who maintained Seddon’s graveside, keeping it in shape with visits three or four times each year to this day.

[JimmyGreaves]

Looks a strong lineup for Saturdays game, 2nd to last before next Saturdays real game starts.

Lions team: Leigh Halfpenny; Sean Maitland, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Simon Zebo; Jonathan Sexton, Mike Phillips; Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs, Adam Jones, Alun Wyn Jones, Paul O'Connell , Tom Croft, Sam Warburton (capt), Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: Richard Hibbard, Alex Corbisiero, Dan Cole, Geoff Parling, Dan Lydiate, Ben Youngs, Owen Farrell, Rob Kearney.

[pharvey]

Definitely a strong team. AWJ needs to put in a big performance and it'll be interesting to see how Zebo plays - a great talent, but don't know how he's been after coming back from the injury suffered in the 6N.

Would also have liked to see Stuart Hogg get another run-out either in the starting XV or from the bench - he certainly impressed on Tuesday, but it would be good to see him at Flyhalf against stiffer opposition.

Also hear that Tommy Bowe should be fit for the 2nd test.

[pharvey]

Semi-Finalists of the Junior World Championships confirmed with New Zealand, South Africa and Wales taking the top spots in their respective pools and England taking the fourth spot as best runners-up - certainly helped on their way with a new JWC record 109-0 drubbing of the USA in their last pool game.

The other 3 semi-finalists had somewhat more competitive games - South Africa 26 vs France 19, Wales 25 vs Argentina 20 and New Zealand 31 vs Ireland 26.

Semi-Finals to be played on June 18th: -

Top seeds New Zealand take on England.
Current holders South Africa take on Wales.

[pharvey]

Online stream for Saturday (From 2pm Thai Time): -

http://cricfree.tv/sky-sports-2.php

New Zealand vs France (2:35pm KO)
NSW Waratahs vs British & Irish Lions (4:40pm KO)

[PET]

Well, somewhat one-sided

I did however enjoy watching the exhibition and as DM (pissed or not) says, there were some great pieces of flowing rugby. There were also some good displays from fringe players such as Richie Gray who may well have played himself into a test spot. North again had a great game as did BOD and Stuart Hogg at Fly-half which could mix things up a bit.

Next up are the Waratahs on Saturday, where once again the Australian squad members will not be available Still, it will be a far sterner test than it was today.......

Yes the first half had some excellent flowing rugby but I felt Roberts played himself out of the first test, and Warburton is no certainty either.

[pharvey]

Yes the first half had some excellent flowing rugby but I felt Roberts played himself out of the first test, and Warburton is no certainty either.

To be honest.. rather than biased , ALL Centers and ALL loose forwards have played well. With regards to Roberts, a big game player who's partnership with BOD in the past (2009 tour) has worked extremely well. There are also worries with regards to Tuilagi's fitness - and IMHO he's an impact player suited to coming off the bench rather than a starter. With this in mind, I still believe the proven partnership of BOD and Roberts will take the test spots and a toss-up of Tuilagi and Jonathan Davies on the bench, depending on the former's fitness.

Back-row.... WOW - hard, hard decisions!! Warburton has played less than 80 mins on the tour so far, but to be fair this was against REAL opposition. As tour captain, he'll need to have a fairly sh*tty game tomorrow to be excluded from the starting XV in the first test.

Tom Croft deserves to be there also, but with Warburton a sure thing and also Tipuric a toe-in IMHO, a place in the match-day 22 is his best bet. If the line-out is not going well.... bring him on!!

Making up the Back-row at No.8 has to be Heaslip I think. Faletau has played well and given a big work rate, but overall Heaslip would win it for me.

Second Row is also interesting - O'Connell is a cert, but who partners him? For me, Richie Gray, but I think AWJ will get the nod.

Sorry..... waffling on!!

[Dahling]

Sorry..... waffling on!!

No, it's always interesting to speculate. But of course that's all it is.

I agree with PET that Roberts has not shown himself to be playing at the same level as the other centres so far. Having said that, he's been given another chance tomorrow, maybe because Gatland wants him to prove himself.

It would be interesting to know to what degree being tour captain affects Warburton's inclusion if he's not playing at his peak, especially in view of Gatland's comments. 10%? 50? Does leaving him out imply Gatland made the wrong choice of skipper?

From what we've seen so far, I'd say this Lions squad has no real individual stars, but good strength in depth - no weak points. But such has been the quality of the opposition so far, I don't think we'll really know how good they are until the 1st test.

[PET]

IMO the Lions weakness is probably at Stand-Off otherwise they are a real force to be reckoned with - we shall see tomorrow and then have a lot more knowledge but Tuesday's game will also be a test (22) selection for some.

[pharvey]

No, it's always interesting to speculate. But of course that's all it is.

Yes of course, Dahling (Damn that's an "Auto response" for me these days!! )... It is speculation, but I think in some respects because of the one-sided games so far, some selections are going to be based on reputation rather than performances so far on the tour....

It would be interesting to know to what degree being tour captain affects Warburton's inclusion if he's not playing at his peak, especially in view of Gatland's comments. 10%? 50? Does leaving him out imply Gatland made the wrong choice of skipper?

I don't believe he has made the wrong choice of skipper particularly.... let's be fair, he's realistically picked 3 in Warburton, BOD and O'Connell, so certainly has not put himself in a corner! I also don't believe Warburton has played badly, although no doubt below his best - a few decent turnovers against the Red's and I think will put in a good enough performance tomorrow. Again, he's a big game player and I can't honestly see him missing out.

From what we've seen so far, I'd say this Lions squad has no real individual stars, but good strength in depth - no weak points.

Aside from perhaps Halfpenny and North (sorry the Welsh bias dropping in), I tend to agree. You've also made a very valid point with regards to strength in depth/as a team rather than individual "stars"..... Hence my comment regarding proven partnerships such as BOD/Roberts & O'Connell/AWJ - perhaps as individuals ([EDIT] Read Roberts & AWJ) they don't quite make the cut, BUT as a partnership........

Anywho, as you say, time will tell - here's to a good game tomorrow!!

[pharvey]

IMO the Lions weakness is probably at Stand-Off otherwise they are a real force to be reckoned with - we shall see tomorrow and then have a lot more knowledge but Tuesday's game will also be a test (22) selection for some.

To be honest, I don't see Sexton as a weakness, he's put in some great displays so far and is without doubt the "Test 10". Farrell on the other hand should not be anywhere near the squad IMHO. Thankfully Stuart Hogg is also there as cover and should be in the match 22.

[pharvey]

OK, my total embarrassment at Wales' display against Japan has subsided (ever so slightly)...

Just briefly on that match however, a couple of comments...: -
1. Japan undoubtedly, thoroughly deserved to win the match - ZERO excuses (maybe a few bitches and complaints!!). Japan went out to play and wanted to win - BIG hand to them!
2. Welsh selection IMHO was arrogant and coaching/tactics sadly found wanting. Mr Jones, Japan's Aussie coach certainly showed who was boss.... I truly hope Wales learn.
3. Japan are certainly no muggs - the fullback *** for example is one hell of a player 1.85m and 99KG's to boot! Many, many others impressed. All for rugby moving forward in the land of the rising sun!!
4. Japan's Openside hardly looks Japanese.... could have made all the difference ( OK, I'm clutching.... well, come on, I am Welsh and need to show my un-dying support).
5. Welsh winger ******* did look bloody good - another star for the future perhaps..... unfortunately, not many others did. Some (1 or 2 of the experienced guys) quite frankly did zip to honour the shirt and have certainly not done themselves any favours...... BITCH OVER!


ONTO THE LIONS!!!!

Shane Williams brought in for match against Brumbies!!

Has caused numerous moans, bitches, complaints etc....... BUT - actually whilst I was totally taken-aback, it's not a bad decision. The Lions have had to bring in 3 backs to cover injuries 2 already were on their way, now Williams - in Japan, but already on his way to cover the tests (commentary-wise!!). So, why not? There for "One game Only", a crowd puller.... and a great swansong.

Very concerned about North and the lack of news........

ACT Brumbies...

The Lions have unsurprisingly rested the test "squad". A couple of the match-day 23 are there, but this is very much the "mid-week team".

Still, a damn good back-row, second row......... & well, almost a front row (can't take cocaine myself..).

If the wingers get the ball - could be fun!!

For those HHF players who haven't picked ....... come along.

[dtaai-maai]

Brumbies 14 - 12 Lions


Disappointing and slightly bizarre performance by the Lions. The starting XV looked like a team of complete strangers who had never played together before. Which is probably largely true. Not so much dire as incompetent.
Hogg has no business playing fly half (not his fault) and is an average kicker at best.
Williams might as well have stayed in Japan (again, not his fault).
O'Brien was verging on crap.
Etc.
But in addition to all that, there was no great urgency, no apparent will to give their all to get that ball and do something with it.

Things perked up when the subs came on, but with 20 minutes to go it was too late.

Oh, and the French referee had a worse game than any of the Lions players - he was ABYSMAL! Not that it favoured one side or the other, but in a game won by 2 points, who knows? He seemed to be totally unwilling to make a decision, and when he did, it was usually the wrong one.

But in the scheme of things, the fact that this team lost is not particularly relevant, apart from the fact that a 40-year-old record has been broken.

Roll on Saturday!


COYL!!

[pharvey]

Hogg was playing only his second game at Fly-half not only on the tour, but basically since school boy level. Considering he had a bloody fine game in his first turnout at Fly-half for the Lions, to say he has no business playing there...... is a tad harsh to say the least. Admittedly, not a great night for him with the boot - but we've been a little spoiled with Halfpenny and Farrell (although he's not my favorite in other facets of the game).

The backs for the first 60 mins had zero cohesion simply because the starting front row were abysmal today. This went not only into the tight, but also the line-outs with (the normally reliable) Rory Best seeming unable to either throw straight or find his jumpers... Shite ball to the half backs and the back-line is nowhere - including Williams who didn't seem to see the ball.

Changing the entire front row improved things dramatically, but simply too little too late.

Agree the referee was in dire need of a pair of specs and a read of the rule book, but again no bias to any one team in particular.

You certainly cannot take anything away from the Brumbies who were well up for the match and wanted that Lions scalp! The forwards were immense with a couple of stand out backs in Mogg at fullback witha great game.

Congrats to the Brumbies, but let's let the REAL GAMES BEGIN!!!

BRING IT ON MATILDA!!!