Depression / Bipolar Disorder

[STEVE G]

Richard mentions, poor eating habits, smoking and drinking, and hints that this indicates depression, but yet all three of these are part of my daily life, and yet I certainly don't consider myself to be suffering from depression. Sure there are times when I feel down, but if you ask me, that's perfectly normal.

I think another relevant point is that many expats, either those retired or working in Thailand, or working the typical irregular jobs elsewhere in the world to maintain a family in Thailand, like myself, are often outside the sort of regular medical system that might consider you to be clinically depressed at times if you were to visit them.
Personally the only times I've visited a doctor in the more than twenty years since I left the military has been a couple of times for physical injuries that have required x-rays or stitches and I know that this is not unusual amongst friends and colleagues.
I've known of several people who have been affected by such things as messy divorces who I'm sure would be considered to be suffering from extreme depression if they'd visited a doctor.

[Takiap]

Yes Steve, that's basically what I was trying to say. However, I also think we live in a society nowadays where everything seems to be a disorder of one type or another.


I am a million miles away from depression, or as far as I'm concerned, any other type of psychiatric problem, but I would bet my life on it that if I went to see a shrink, and answered all questions honestly, he/she would find a label for me.


I'm certainly not questioning the OP's post, so my apologies if I came across that way. Maybe this whole depression thing has a lot to do with one's childhood; I don't know. I had a damn hard time as a kid, and maybe that is why I'm pretty much bullet proof these days. Again, I do understand that all people are different.

As others have pointed out on here, you can take all the medication in the world, but unless you get rid of the root cause, your depression ain't going away.



Sarge, I agree with your post entirely, apart from your little dig at Mr P. Why is it that pharmaceuticals are automatically perfect, yet other forms of treatment are "quack therapy"? Again, I refer back to ADHD in kids. Do some research and you'll soon discover how many kids have died as a direct result of their medication, and yet not one has died from any of the natural ADHD remedies. I also doubt any of those kids who died from taking their meds would have died if they hadn't taken their meds. The last I heard, inattentiveness and hyperactivity aren't fatal illnesses.


Anyway.....

[sargeant]

Takiap i never mentioned Pharma drugs at all so am at a loss for your
as for my alledged little dig at Mr who???

If you are not open to alternatives I really don't need to hear about it.

I would also point out i am open minded on herbal and diet and exercise and have on this forum even given some natural dietary things i use regularly
i am NOT IN ANY WAY closed minded as per quote above
as for my real doctor he did not prescribe any drugs he prescribed exercise and a BICYCLE

as for your point on drugs for kids and disorders for everything I agree 100% I however think the drugs are given to kids for their parents symptoms not the kids

[Takiap]

Takiap i never mentioned Pharma drugs at all so am at a loss for your
as for my alledged little dig at Mr who???

If you are not open to alternatives I really don't need to hear about it.

I would also point out i am open minded on herbal and diet and exercise and have on this forum even given some natural dietary things i use regularly
i am NOT IN ANY WAY closed minded as per quote above
as for my real doctor he did not prescribe any drugs he prescribed exercise and a BICYCLE

as for your point on drugs for kids and disorders for everything I agree 100% I however think the drugs are given to kids for their parents symptoms not the kids

Sorry, I read wrong.....

[MrPlum]

I would also point out i am open minded on herbal and diet and exercise and have on this forum even given some natural dietary things i use regularly
i am NOT IN ANY WAY closed minded

Staggering.

as for my real doctor he did not prescribe any drugs he prescribed exercise and a BICYCLE

I have to say I was intensely curious as to what made this 'real' Doctor so 'awesome'? Now I'm laughing so much, they've diagnosed me with SIGD (sarge inspired giggling disorder).

No drugs and exercise.

He's an alternative practitioner.

...I also think we live in a society nowadays where everything seems to be a disorder of one type or another.

The medicalization of normal human feeling is big business.

I am a million miles away from depression, or as far as I'm concerned, any other type of psychiatric problem, but I would bet my life on it that if I went to see a shrink, and answered all questions honestly, he/she would find a label for me.

You are quite clearly suffering from CSD... common sense syndrome.

IMHO 20 different psychiatrists will give you 20 different reasons why you are feeling the way you are, all of which sound plausible and none of which can cure you. Trying to find a psychological root cause is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. How many of us can recall all the childhood traumas we might have had? Remember the furore over implanted abuse memories in children, by 'qualified' professionals? How many parents lost their children or were stigmatized with the 'abuser' label?

Even if you are able to find the original trauma, you still have to resolve it. This is one reason they resort to chemistry. They do not know what else to do.

Another reason is the Medical profession is bound by the straitjacket of 'standard treatment'. Some 'eminent' body, none of whom... cough.. cough... have ties to drug companies, will decide what the 'standard treatment' for a condition is. Odd that it is always a patentable, synthetic chemical, with dubious efficacy and pages of side effects, that will only be properly tested 'in the wild' and has never been tested with all the other possible combinations of chemicals patients might be taking. Deviate from this miracle of efficacy, testing and safety and you can lose your licence to practice. There are ways to keep Doctors in line.

Another problem is that even if you have any confidence in psychiatry, 70% of prescriptions are now made by your GP, NOT a psychiatrist. How many are incentivized by drug reps? It is a scandal that 80% of Doctors allow themselves to be influenced in this way by drug companies.

Why is it that pharmaceuticals are automatically perfect, yet other forms of treatment are "quack therapy"?

There is a generation of people who are locked into a particular mindset... 'The Doctor Knows Best' driven deep into their consciousness. If YOU tell them to exercise, they will dismiss you as a 'quack'. But if their DOCTOR says it, they double away, lickety-split and call him 'awesome'.

The thinking elderly are wiser. In Britain many refuse to go anywhere near UK hospitals. They know they won't come out again. 'Britain's Pathway to Euthenasia' just one reason.

This generation are dinosaurs. Last time I checked, the number of out-patient visits to alternative practitioners exceeded out-patient visits to orthodox Doctors. It is easy to see why. While the treatment of Emergency and Acute disorders is a great success and great efforts are made to save life (you can't have your future corporate revenue stream die on you), the treatment of Chronic and Degenerative disorders is disgraceful. Why? Because they NEVER address the underlying cause. It's not all their fault. They don't have the time and WE won't change OUR disease-inducing ways. A few will make the effort. The rest are just walking ATMs for the medical bar-girls. When was the last time ANYONE heard of a CURE?

Again, I refer back to ADHD in kids. Do some research and you'll soon discover how many kids have died as a direct result of their medication,

The FDA admit 100,000 people a year DIE from taking the properly prescribed dose of medicines. Only 10% of incidents are reported and that doesn't include those who are injured. Billions of dollars have been levied on drug companies like Merck and GSK for corruption yet all you hear is silence.

Dare to suggest a safer alternative and boy oh boy, what a fuss they make.

The double standard is striking.

[sargeant]

back again your goodbyes dont last long

If you are not open to alternatives I really don't need to hear about it.

I am open to other ideas it is you that is closed minded hence the latest post to distract members from the above quote which i shall quote at every opportunity

No drugs and exercise.

He's an alternative practitioner.

In your dreams sunbeam he is a Heart specialist in the modern medicine field but it blows your lies that all modern medicine is drugs and bad doctors trying to kill you
He did offer VIAGRA as the incentive see i tell it all and i dont tell lies
but you wont tell anyone using VIAGRA its bad for them will you bugger up your client list that would wouldnt it they would probably consider you to be a fanatical quack if you did

and guess what he never mentioned enemas and detox not once which is your cure all for everything from blindness to decapitation

[MrPlum]

In your dreams sunbeam he is a Heart specialist in the modern medicine field

The topic is depression/bipolar disorder. He is not qualified in Psychiatry. Why aren't you castigating him?

You are an experienced man of the world; had years in the military, with a healthy fitness regime and all these years later, you needed someone else to state the obvious?

but it blows your lies that all modern medicine is drugs and bad doctors trying to kill you

I have never met a bad Doctor, although I've met one or two Psychiatrists who look more in need of treatment than you or I. The issue does not lie with Doctors. It lies with the system of medicine we have. Which, for too many conditions, does not work. The carving up of human beings into complex specializations, the focus on symptoms and not underlying cause, the lip-service paid to prevention, the corrupting influence of money on health politics. These are well understood problems, acknowledged by anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes thinking about it. Just not you.

In Thailand drugs are over-prescribed. Many posters on here will confirm it. The over-prescribing of antibiotics to children is out of hand. They are poisons. In the U.S. the over-prescribing of drugs is also very serious. The dominant medical model is very clearly symptom=drug.

He did offer VIAGRA as the incentive see i tell it all and i dont tell lies

You lie constantly. You just don't seem to be aware of it. This 'awesome' Doctor who doesn't do drugs, is offering you a DRUG sold by Pfizer, as an 'incentive'. Do you actually think about what you write?

but you wont tell anyone using VIAGRA its bad for them will you bugger up your client list that would wouldn't it they would probably consider you to be a fanatical quack if you did

I don't know what moral code you operate under but if Viagra is bad for you, informing people would be the right thing to do.

...and guess what he never mentioned enemas and detox not once which is your cure all for everything from blindness to decapitation

No it isn't. Whenever I am sick my first port of call is an Orthodox Doctor. If he cannot cure me, I will go elsewhere, or cure myself.

Since cleansing the body is a fundamental part of Nature, (that's why you are blessed with 'channels of elimination'), it is perfectly logical to look at whether these systems are working properly. Especially when our food and environment is so polluted. Don't forget diet, exercise, herbs and anything else that might support your own body's efforts to heal.

I've never met a decapitated individual. Although watching the way your mind works, you'll forgive me for thinking I've met my first. I consider myself very fortunate. Because while your choices are limited when 'incurable' disease strikes, I have plenty of options available to me.

Since I know that behind your continuous malice, beats the heart of a decent man, I will give you a tip. There is a tonic called 'Tang Seam Jeng'. It is a mixture of Chinese herbs, including Ginseng. It restores one's 'vigor'. It is probably similarly priced to Viagra but you also get the overall health benefits. The only reported side effect is a broad grin on the face of a colleague's girlfriend.

Cut out the constant 'Ad Hominem' attacks. You are far better than this.

[sargeant]

If you are not open to alternatives I really don't need to hear about it.

that quote has certainly got your attention it seems you are chasing me around the forum now but unlike you i am not ignorant i will answer all questions and will NOT ignore you

Why aren't you castigating him?

because unlike you he IS QUALIFIED

needed someone else to state the obvious?

NO MrP i needed an incentive to bother at all as death did seem a better alternative at the time

I have never met a bad Doctor, although I've met one or two Psychiatrists who look more in need of treatment than you or I. The issue does not lie with Doctors.

NO MrP it lies with the patients expecting more than the Dr can do most GPs spend more time signing sick notes for lazy arseholes than they have to give to genuine patients. The TIME pressures on Drs is unbelievable and every patient has seen some documentary with a new wonder drug for his percieved illness and demands that drug
PUT the blame on over expectant patients and the media that fuel these over expectations

You lie constantly. You just don't seem to be aware of it. This 'awesome' Doctor who doesn't do drugs, is offering you a DRUG sold by Pfizer, as an 'incentive'. Do you actually think about what you write?

That in red just shows we have the same belief about each other only difference is i have said what your lies are
Again you lie i have never said anywhere that my DOCTOR does not do drugs i have repeatedly said that he has worked diligently to lower and lower again and again what my drugs are and how much i need
READ ALL ABOUT ITMrP says VIAGRA is bad for you and a poison well sort of ish

I don't know what moral code you operate under but if Viagra is bad for you, informing people would be the right thing to do.

HYPOCRITE all drugs are bad according to you except drugs that may cause a loss in your revenues

Whenever I am sick my first port of call is an Orthodox Doctor.

what hyper hypocrisy do what I say NOT what I do

If you are not open to alternatives I really don't need to hear about it.

Because while your choices are limited when 'incurable' disease strikes, I have plenty of options available to me.

DO you read the crap you write if it is INCURABLE you have absolutely nil nana zero buggeral option more than anyone else

Thanks for the tip but you use it and stick it on the end of your hosepipe
anyway as you say

beats the heart of a decent man, I will give you a tip.

fair enuf then heres one for you one tip deserves another
drop the alternative messy hosepipe detox and funnel work apply to Thailand has Talent

Its easy enter stage dressed as god almighty or elvis or a sailor whatever drives your boat stride to the centre of the stage face the audience with arms raised aloft wait for applause to slow then slowly turn your back to the audience and shout you will lead them to the promised land wait for applause to settle



then drop your trouser bend over and talk through your favorite orifice like as wot u do on the forum

[Cing Jai]

This thread is bullshit! I'd rather kill myself than read anymore.

The OP is still ignored, the thread is now tainted so regulars will avoid it and I think you all deserve the OP an apology for having it out on a thread that took a lot of courage to start!

I come away from this feeling just like I did when I asked for help here on the very same topic. I was even told that "Anybody who get's seriously stressed in Thailand is sad IMO."

Next suicide in Hua Hin will will probably be me! Does that fukin get it back on topic for you now?

[MrPlum]

I come away from this feeling just like I did when I asked for help here on the very same topic.

Unsurprising if you are depressed and suicidal. My apologies for the self-indulgence. For me it's part jousting contest, part education and part learning to develop a thick skin. Wrong topic for it but then it always is.

I am sure a moderator will be only too happy to clear away the dross, if you ask them but that isn't really what's eating you. You have been offered help and given a contact number. If you don't follow up, how can anyone assist? I know from experience that when a member is really in trouble, feuds are forgotten and people DO pitch in and help. They sometimes even talk sense.

Make the call. Call someone. Anyone. It may not resolve your issues but at least it's a step, which will lead to the next step and light begins to shine through the darkness.

What's the worst that can happen?

[sargeant]

Two posts i can totally agree with
CJ make that call as Mr P says PM Maj Bloodnok he has a disability as well and can probably help you more than anyone else and maybe you can help him probably better than most

If you don't follow up, how can anyone assist? I know from experience that when a member is really in trouble, feuds are forgotten and people DO pitch in and help.

[Super Joe]

Depression is caused by an imbalance of agents in the brain, and can therefore be treated by medication restoring the balance of those agents.

Not so.
The naturopathic approach will work irrespective of diagnosis. That's the beauty of it.

If that were true then after 3,000 years of practising naturopathic medicines, we could reasonably expect India and China to be showing the West he way. So how come they account for 35% of the world's population, but 54% of the world's suicides? And how come your 4 times as likely to commit suicide in China than you are in the most heavily medicated country in the world, the US? The usual CT line re: -- 'it's not being cured, so it's not working' -- are contradicted by the reduction in the rate of depression-related suicides as these antidepressant meds became more widely used.


The truth is these claims of 'natural' and 'non-chemical/toxic' remedies for chronic illnesses are anything but. They are using chemical compounds extracted from plants to alter the chemical balance of the brain. Three of the leading Ayurvedic treatments involve plant extract chemical compounds directly altering the brain chemistry balance. Ditto Chinese TCM. And another popular 'natural' treatment that's in widespread use... lithium orotate!!
http://ayurvedanama.org/pdf/resources/N ... issner.pdf
"Ayurvedic healers consider Brahmi (Bacopa Monniera) a very valuable herb for treating mental disorders. Bacosides are the memory chemicals in Brahmi, the bacosides help to repair damaged neurons by adding muscle to kinase, the protein involved in the synthesis of new neurons to replace old ones. The major chemical entity shown to be responsible for the neuro-pharmacological effects of bacopa monniera is bacoside. Compounds responsible for the pharmacological effects of BM include alkaloids, saponins and sterols."


Traditional medicines like Indian Ayurveda and Chinese TCM have been reinventing their thousand years old remedies over the past half a century with the dramatic discoveries and advances in science. As the scientists have been isolating and determining exactly which compounds & substances in herbal medicines are having beneficial, none or adverse affects, so they have been refining or re-inventing their products. They have been adapting and accepting the role as complimentary & adjuvant treatments to the more effective modern medicines. They know they have to or be left behind. Their governments know they have to, to reduce the burden of soaring public health costs...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopath ... cine#India
"There are growing collaborative efforts between naturopaths and medical doctors to evaluate the safety and efficacy of naturopathic medicine in prevention and management of a broad range of common ailments, and to decide whether accessibility of naturopathic services will enhance patient health in a cost-effective way. In Germany a host of naturopathy alternative treatments are sold as reliable science such as reflexology. Contrary to reflexology, scientifically genuine naturopathic methods are not an alternative, but a supplement to modern medicine."

SJ

[MrPlum]

If that were true then after 3,000 years of practising naturopathic medicines, we could reasonably expect India and China to be showing the West he way. So how come they account for 35% of the world's population, but 54% of the world's suicides? And how come your 4 times as likely to commit suicide in China than you are in the most heavily medicated country in the world, the US? The usual CT line re: -- 'it's not being cured, so it's not working' -- are contradicted by the reduction in the rate of depression-related suicides as these antidepressant meds became more widely used.

The '$1000 an hour pedantic lawyer' shows up to ignore the proven carnage and quackery of drug companies, distort my views, manufacture 'crimes' out of reasonable viewpoints and tar any alternative with the 'CT' brush. Welcome back.

You didn't mention Alex Jones. Might I expect it in your next post?

I think we know that 'chemical coshes' reduce suicides by turning you into a chemically-lobotomized shuffling hulk. Do you have the figures for the numbers of suicides caused by trying to come off them?

You provide no sources so I don't know whether you are pulling all this from Harold Shipman or Stephen Barrett. India and China's suicide rates are probably due to greater population density, poverty and Monsanto and other capitalist monopolists killing off all their farmers.

Why are you tossing Ayurveda into the ring? I have never mentioned it as a remedy for mental disorders and would try the basics first. Clean the body, flood it with nutrients, exercise, avoid or resolve emotional and psychological stress and pedantic lawyers and learn some relaxation techniques. If it doesn't work, and there are no guarantees, go back to your Doctor. Am I now going to hear about the dangers of Ayurvedic Brocolli?

Once again... Ayurveda has two strands, ancient and modern. The modern version is a fairly recent 'advance' attempting to achieve common standards. This is no different to what the west has done. Unfortunately when you enforce common standards you risk losing the 'Art' of medicine and make it mechanistic. We can see with our own system how damaging that is. Doctors are not allowed to recommend alternatives which may have a better prospect of improving or healing your condition, for fear of sanction. The 'Guru' system is hundreds if not thousands of years.

Three of the leading Ayurvedic treatments involve plant extract chemical compounds directly altering the brain chemistry balance. Ditto Chinese TCM. And another popular 'natural' treatment that's in widespread use... lithium orotate!!

A mug of grandma's chicken soup is also very popular.

My statement was a statement of principle. Obviously when you get down to deciding on which remedy to apply, you will investigate and exclude those that carry unacceptable risk.

"There are growing collaborative efforts between naturopaths and medical doctors to evaluate the safety and efficacy of naturopathic medicine in prevention and management of a broad range of common ailments, and to decide whether accessibility of naturopathic services will enhance patient health in a cost-effective way. In Germany a host of naturopathy alternative treatments are sold as reliable science such as reflexology. Contrary to reflexology, scientifically genuine naturopathic methods are not an alternative, but a supplement to modern medicine."

Thanks for posting this recognition that modern medicine has failed and needs the help of 'quack', 'CT' alternatives.

[sargeant]

I think we know that 'chemical coshes' reduce suicides by turning you into a chemically-lobotomized shuffling hulk. Do you have the figures for the numbers of suicides caused by trying to come off them?

Let us disect this dribble
"we know" ---who is we?? it certainly isnt me or any of the sane population
"chemical coshes" ---what an over exaggeration designed to scare
"chemically labotomised shuffling hulk" ---just who are you talking about and please supply data facts and figures as to how many/%age
and again a gross over exageration designed to scare

Do you have the figures for the numbers of suicides caused by trying to come off them?

Let us examine this if they dont go on the drugs they commit suicide
if they do go on the drugs most will have enhanced lives
to those that become chemically labotomised shuffling hulks at least they are alive and have not committed suicide

and all you are interested in is the figures (which any SANE person knows are not available) of suicides caused by coming of the drugs

Thanks for posting this recognition that modern medicine has failed and needs the help of 'quack', 'CT' alternatives.

read it Mr P instead of warping it to your slanted agenda

"There are growing collaborative efforts between naturopaths and medical doctors to evaluate the safety and efficacy of naturopathic medicine

a perfectly sensible standpoint safety and eficacy first but bursts your baloon of lies that modern medicine only dishes out drugs drugs and more drugs doesnt it
silly question you are sufferring from TBS twisted brain syndrome

Keep them coming SJ

[MrPlum]

I see the sap is rising again. One already unable to stop himself, while the other will very quickly be the same, if the past is any guide. Apologies, but for your own good, that's as much time as I wish to give either of you.