Big Boy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:00 pmIt seems very strange to me that a Thai bank is asking non-US citizens to complete US IRS forms. I haven't clicked anything yet - waiting for expert feedback from you guys.
They are not. All one has to do is complete and return the Kasikorn Form.
Unless you're not a US national but have banking or investments in the US in which case your overseas bank may ask you to complete a W-9 form, as HSBC Expat asked me once, to comply with US FATCA checks (I had an empty US account with them and they spotted that).
From what I read below Kbank clearly said fill in the US forms if applicable, except for the FATCA form which should have had a brief explanation of who might be required to complete it. But TIT and anyway a five second Google search shows you that it's for US income.
I see on the CRS form that it's asked whether I'm a resident for tax purposes in another country which I am - UK.
I'm then asked to supply my foreign TIN number which the UK does not specifically have but I do have a Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR).
From a quick look at the internet, the consensus of opinion is to never reveal the UTR to anyone except a financial/tax advisor and HMRC.
So my gut feel is to just leave this blank. If I'm asked why I haven't supplied a TIN/UTR/tax reference number, I'll just say that my government advises its citizens not to reveal it. If my tax advisor in the UK says it's OK to pass the number on the the tax man here, then so be it (if things get that far) but I'd not be happy giving it to a bank.
Maybe it did say, "if applicable". However, the original general consensus was it was most likely spam. I did not read it, just in case (still haven't yet), I was shocked that they were asking for a copy of a passport, especially when the bank keep reiterating they will never ask for personal details. What is more personal than your passport?
It now sounds as if it is more credible. I will download and complete the Kasikorn form and take it in to discuss with the bank next time I'm there.
I think its now completly credible, even expat taxation companies are offering 'webinars'(?) to explain the new requirements, but it did come out of the blue, with no warning, and for many, not having a clue what it was all about. I was the first to post here about it transpires similar conversations were going on elsewhere. And as here, others also finally got to what it was all about. From a counter fraud perspectrive, there are differences to my UK bank, basics I would say, which concerned me. But it is what itt is.
Big Boy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 7:32 am
OK, thanks for clarification. I was working on your previous post and somebody saying they wanted a copy of the passport e-mailing to them.
sateeb wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:15 am
The first 2 documents are official US IRS Forms and the 3rd is a Kasikorn document headed Individual Self-Certification.
I didn't realise the US forms were superfluous.
A certified copy of your passport IS required, I guess to prove your nationality.
From the e mail.......................
1.1 FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification,
2. provide a certified true copy of your passport; and
3. return the completed forms and document(s) abovementioned to us by email at K-CustomerFATCACRSUpdate@kasikornbank.com no later than December 20, 2024.
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― George Carlin
“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” -George Orwell.
Of course, I could use a free online PDF editor, which requires me to send all of my information to a mystery server, and then download the result. Very secure, not.
[Edit] Or are people without the necessary software, simply printing the form, completing it by hand, and then scanning it in, and saving as PDF file before sending it back to K Bank?
Big Boy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 10:11 am
Of course, I could use a free online PDF editor, which requires me to send all of my information to a mystery server, and then download the result. Very secure, not.
[Edit] Or are people without the necessary software, simply printing the form, completing it by hand, and then scanning it in, and saving as PDF file before sending it back to K Bank?
Yep
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
― George Carlin
“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” -George Orwell.
lomuamart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 8:03 am
I see on the CRS form that it's asked whether I'm a resident for tax purposes in another country which I am - UK.
I'm then asked to supply my foreign TIN number which the UK does not specifically have but I do have a Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR).
From a quick look at the internet, the consensus of opinion is to never reveal the UTR to anyone except a financial/tax advisor and HMRC.
So my gut feel is to just leave this blank. If I'm asked why I haven't supplied a TIN/UTR/tax reference number, I'll just say that my government advises its citizens not to reveal it. If my tax advisor in the UK says it's OK to pass the number on the the tax man here, then so be it (if things get that far) but I'd not be happy giving it to a bank.
Any other Brits have any thoughts on this?
I have entered my tax details UTR etc and I do not understand the risk in revealing it - if somebody else wants to pay my UK tax they can get on with it!
Courage is grace under pressure and when circumstances change you change your mind.
The very last post talks of what happened in Hua Hin. I think I will try that initially.
Cary says on November 26, 2024 at 7:41 am
FYI:
I went to my Kasikorn branch (in Hua Hin) this morning for an explanation. The forms were sent by Kasikorn to their clients. The 1.1 (Facta) is for everyone, the other 2 attachments only for US citizens. With this information I wanted to leave to fill in the Facta form and so on, but the lady at the counter said that this was not necessary if I had my passport and bank book with me, then she would update my data at Kasikorn in the computer and add a photo of my passport. She also took a new photo of me that she attached to my updated data. Finally I had to sign for the update and that was that. In total this all took 5 minutes and she assured me that I had met the required conditions and did not have to do anything
BB I was thinking I would do exactly what Cary has done. I would sit in the bank and refuse to pay for a passport verification when they can verify it themselves. I would have presumed this FATCA has been insisted on by the Revenue Service, but as no other banks are insisting on it I would ignore it until I saw any consequence (which can only be tax-related).
Ms Tigger wrote:How, or where, can you get a passport verified? Is there a list of suitable signatories?
It's quite common in Thailand to self certify. On the copy of the document write something like "This is a true copy", add signature and date. It's what I've done anyway. I'm sure they'll let me know if it's not OK. Sending it back by email means it's a copy of the certified copy anyway.
